Since the introduction of the backdoor system, the imbalance in the provincial championship structures in football has led to continued Ulster success by default. As a result of the obvious mathematical difference in the number of counties in each province and the particular growth of football in Ulster, the system is naturally unbalanced. Ulster's constant presence in championship football can only be attributed to their numerical advantage. They play the system as any other province would do if born into such privilege and so football has become a cult there. With only five counties in Connacht, six in Munster and, realistically, only eight football counties in Leinster, these provinces do not have the same facility to develop as Ulster have been afforded in recent years. The fact that there are nine strong footballing counties and an extremely competitive championship in Ulster is a betrayal to the other provinces. Since the introduction of the qualifiers and excluding provincial champions, only six Connacht, six Munster and ten Leinster teams have reached the quarter finals of the championship. On the other hand, fourteen Ulster teams have reached this stage through the backdoor, greatly increasing their chances of all-Ireland success. Is it now time to change the system and remove the straight jacket imposed on the other provinces? Does the GAA need a Gorbachev?

Tomás Tralee (Kerry) - Posts: 391 - 29/10/2009 18:26:22    470010

i think you're being ignored..........

BobbyB (Tyrone) - Posts: 369 - 29/10/2009 21:04:50    470226

Tomás Tralee County: Kerry Posts: 349 470010 Since the introduction of the backdoor system, the imbalance in the provincial championship structures in football has led to continued Ulster success by default. Totally agree. Always said that. And you always get Ulster people bemoaning how weak Munster is until they are losing to Tipperary and Limerick in the league, and Cork and Kerry are in the all Ireland final nearly every year.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 29/10/2009 21:49:48    470301

Tomas, Is this just an alternative view to the opinion made by former Armagh county player John Makem published in yesterday's Irish news??

I think his arguement was aimed more at an open championship draw incorporating a meaningful league system in June that would ensure that county grounds all over ireland would hold championship games in the summer and not just be used for McKenna cup or NFL matches. It did make sense as personally speaking the back door system has completely lost its appeal.

mugsys_barber (Tyrone) - Posts: 2160 - 29/10/2009 22:30:26    470358

Tomas Tralee: "Play the system as if born into the privilege," "Ulster cult." Were you drinking last night?! I think it somewhat churlish to criticise the Ulster province because their province has more competitive counties than the other three provinces. Surely 9 competitive counties make for a more interesting provincial champo than the usual Kerry-Cork / Mayo-Galway showdowns which ultimately decide the Munster / Connacht titles. Seems like more Ulster bashing. There has been some Ulster paranoia on these forums recently, and this sort of blinkered thread is adding fuel to the fire! And just how many of Kerry's recent successes have come via the back door?!

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 30/10/2009 07:31:56    470513

The main GAA messsage board really has become boring. Same tired old arguments all the time and people trying to stir them up.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9734 - 30/10/2009 10:38:33    470578

Correct if I am wrong here, Kerry have won umpteen AI by playing 4 matches in the championship, and in 2005, tyrone had to play 10 matches to win it, yeah the back door is much easier.

gottabetrue (Tyrone) - Posts: 300 - 30/10/2009 10:41:37    470583

What Tomas is evidently trying to say in a convoluted way is that he agrees with John Makems article in that the provincial system is not fair and does provide advantages to certain teams becuase of the different numbers of counties in each province. It is one of the reasons that the Railway cup is in decline because it his dominated by the two largest provinces. Although Tomas is attempting to be anti-Ulster (Kerry lads are such terrible sports, they really cannot cope with defeat) in his posting he should recognise the benefits that would come to Kerry as a result. No more soft all-irelands, proper championship football in early summer as opposed to some of the early summer non-matches we seen this year.

John Makem needs to be given credit for bringing this discussion properly into the public forum and maybe in the short term some adjustments can be made.

John Boss (Tyrone) - Posts: 865 - 30/10/2009 11:11:30    470610

gottabetrue
County: Tyrone
Posts: 267

470583 Correct if I am wrong here, Kerry have won umpteen AI by playing 4 matches in the championship, and in 2005, tyrone had to play 10 matches to win it, yeah the back door is much easier.

You're right. They seem to know how to win the AI in less than half the time. If you Tyrone lads don't go easy with the Kerry love in you'll give us all a big head ;)

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 30/10/2009 11:26:55    470621

Is there any chance of the Kerry and Tyrone posters putting all these "we are better than you" threads to bed as the general users on these boards seem to be really fed up of them and would like to move on and debate new subjects ?? They are past their sell-by date !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 30/10/2009 12:09:08    470687

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there 12 counties in Leinster thus giving them the advantage in terms of numbers?

Rock & Roll (None) - Posts: 74 - 30/10/2009 12:17:22    470695

Cavan_Slasher
County: Cavan
Posts: 3113

470687 Is there any chance of the Kerry and Tyrone posters putting all these "we are better than you" threads to bed as the general users on these boards seem to be really fed up of them and would like to move on and debate new subjects ?? They are past their sell-by date !!

Kerry posters are better at putting the "we are better than you" threads to bed than Tyrone posters. Sorry couldn't resist.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 30/10/2009 12:25:06    470708

rubbish,

Ulster teams have done so well because they have brought a new professionalism and intensity to the game. They deserve their success.

JPM1981 (Kildare) - Posts: 825 - 30/10/2009 12:51:06    470750

I'm intrigued to see how people are attributing success for certain counties / provinces by such arbitrary means as numbers. If it was that simple, Dublin would win the SFC every year cos they have the most people living in their county. And Antrim would be up there as well. Unfortunately, sport is NEVER that simple. Ulster has had relative success, in the number of teams making it through the qualifiers, because the provincial Champo is more competitive. Even the likes of Fermanagh and Antrim now pose a serious threat to the more established Ulster counties. There are no easy draws in the ulster champo, which one cannot say about other provinces.

Tongo (UK) - Posts: 1795 - 30/10/2009 12:56:14    470757

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnn
well well tomas tralee, it didnt last long. the ulster bashing on hs i mean. it kinda stopped there for a couple of weeks. but i will agree with you in that the championship does need looked at. its hardly fair that when kerry are playing rubbish football, all the strong teams knock each other out and kerry end up winning an all ireland by playing 1 good game against the best team in the country but a team who unfortunately arent mentally strong enough to beat kerry in croker. catch yourself on boyo. i sense a real sense of bitterness because of the dominance of tyrone and armagh. (i wont say ulster for fear of being acused of hanging on to their coat tails) it couldnt be hard for a footbal team to win a provincial championship when all your opposition are hurling teams. kerry winning munster football is akin to galway or antrim winning connaught or ulster in the hurling

pig.ignorant (Derry) - Posts: 655 - 30/10/2009 13:30:04    470793

MY GOD ALMIGHTY!

Is everyone that has posted on Tomás' thread (with the exception of a small few) blind? Can ye not see Tomás' tongue is firmly planted in his cheek? This is not an anti-Ulster thread. This thread is a play on Makem's piece in the Irish News where he has a dig at Kerry. Tomás is using wit and satire in an attempt to throw the invalid points raised by Makem back into his face. Tomás is not belittling anyone's acheivments.

I'm really dissapointed in some posters that responded to this thread thinking that it's due to Kerry's sour grapes at Tyrone's success etc. Particularly you John Boss, with your comments in brackets, I thought you knew better.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 30/10/2009 14:08:35    470854

3inarow08, fair point. I usually try and avoid getting dragged down. The posting was however ant-ulster in tone, given that makems piece was not about ulster but the country as a whole. Maybee it is the short days and bad weather as well. In any case I will try harder, sorry. Congratulations on the All-Ireland by the way, I don't think I've been in touch since. Never was a fan of Galvin until this year and he certainly deserved the player of the year. Happy Halloween.

John Boss (Tyrone) - Posts: 865 - 30/10/2009 14:54:51    470926

and what about ulsters 4 successive all ireland wins in the early nineties tom ?

sons.of.erin (UK) - Posts: 343 - 30/10/2009 15:45:12    470988

John Boss, no bother. Sorry to have to single you out. I'm a bit tired and emotional lately myself.

I agree that the post was anti-Ulster in tone, but Tomás is the longest serving Kerry HS user that I know of, and I haven't seen him post WUM posts or create WUM threads to stir debate and score cheap shots with Tyrone/Ulster or whoever.

As for the rest, ya you haven't been around much lately. We all go through "dry spells"! Thanks for the good wishes. Galvin is one of my favourite players and I always knew he had it in him to have a year like he had.

Happy Halloween to you too!

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 30/10/2009 16:37:39    471062

Firstly, apologies to anyone offended by my post. I can understand how the tone and language might be insulting and debasing.

However, as Triona has pointed out, it was merely a different slant on Peter Makem's sour comments on Kerry football. Please see the piece in the Independent during the week. link

It's interesting to read some posters' reaction. Tongo, I'm glad you commented on Mr.Makem's choice of words. "Born into such privilege", "landlord's of football", "cult". I find these extremely insulting and unnecessary. Cheap shots used to back up an unrelated point. One of them was even removed from the title of the thread yet printed in a national newspaper.

I'm glad some of you agree that a county's success can't be attributed to something as "arbitrary" as the numbers of counties in each province. There's more to it than that. Mr. Makem believes "Kerry's constant presence in championship football can only be attributed to their provincial position". His ignorance of history and football knows no bounds. Down here we're very proud of the huge efforts that have gone into our teams over many generations, but that's for another day.

John Boss, I hope you don't believe we're all 'terrible sports', we can cope with defeat, it's part of what drives us on.

Finally, I have to say that the Armagh man does make some valid points, in the Irish News, regarding the the structure of the championship. No need for the sly digs and insults though. They don't make 'em like him anymore.

Tomás Tralee (Kerry) - Posts: 391 - 30/10/2009 19:20:47    471278