What a great thread... You really deserve a big pato on the back!!

Yer Man (None) - Posts: 286 - 12/09/2009 17:52:59    424061

There's a rumour that Pato was developed by a group of illiterate Irish emigrants during the famine who arrived on Argentina's shores in search of a better life. In honour of the main staple diet of their beloved Ireland and to maintain a link with the old country, they called the game Pato. Unfortunately, the game Pato had about as much success as its namesake back at home in Ireland at that time!

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 12/09/2009 18:30:15    424073

Great post OmaghJoe, very informative. But the ancient game of football is caid (not cead). If you go out to the West Kerry Gaeltacht you won't hear of football being called "peil", it's still called "caid" to this day.

3inarow08 (Kerry) - Posts: 2455 - 12/09/2009 18:55:10    424085

the word Pato is Spanish for duck. They used to use a duck in a cage rather then a ball.

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 12/09/2009 20:31:32    424135

Just a point of information there is no such place as the Falklands they are the Malvinas Islands belonging to Argentina.

Ireland should challenge Argentina in a copromise rules international named in honour of Admiral Wiiliam Brown cup. It could be payed under compromise rules between between pato and road bowling.

thistle_harps (UK) - Posts: 879 - 12/09/2009 21:07:33    424156

Pato Banton

"Las Malvinas Son Argentinas"

Doire_NY (Derry) - Posts: 4 - 12/09/2009 23:50:43    424296

Puddersthecat:
So the Kilkenny hurlers working with Donegal are doing what?

Nothing according to a Donegal hurler I spoke to. They came up a year and a half ago, had one training session, got back in their helicopter to Kilkenny, and haven't been back in Donegal since. If you see them, or Liam McCarthy, feel free to send them up for a visit. We don't even need the Senior hurlers, feel free to send up the U-21s, Intermediates, Minors or even the U-16s and their Trainers/Managers. We want to improve and any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

donegal_insider (Donegal) - Posts: 584 - 13/09/2009 03:49:05    424344

Omagh Joe

Good post - never thought of it that way - Thought it was something to do with not having too many ash trees up here !!
so tipp lads blame the Butlers of Ormond rather than the REF

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 13/09/2009 15:07:20    424492

Hmmm. Pato? A name like that he was taking the micky. He has to be a West Cork man.

Real Kerry Fan (None) - Posts: 2957 - 14/09/2009 00:02:19    424849

Ruanua

Aye its a bit of an elephant in the room all right isnt it! But it has always been glarelingly obivous to me as to why hurling is only popular in a small area

Just been back from Donegal there actually, (I was gonna write a report about it on your county MB!) its amazing how the sun always shines in Dongeal! But anyway yes there is a lack of Ash trees in Donegal, actually a lack of trees, rowan are common though. Anyway yes I could see how you could up with that conclusion. But in Tyrone we are falling down with the bloody things.
Apparently they prefer lime soils, but in Tyrone its pretty much all acidic soils, I dunno I reckon they can grow in most soil types fairly well, apart from Donegal obviously!

Anyway one thing for sure is:

Old Norman controlled area = Hurling area

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 14/09/2009 19:09:05    425694

Bannerboy, unfortunately some of the posters have tried to turn this genuine thread into a farce. I concur with your sentiments that its a shame that so few play hurling. I can tell you that for those of us who play hurling in Tyrone we are proud to do so and although the standard may not be what it is in Galway for example, the games are contested just as keenly and the pain of defeat is just as acute as what losing a clare championship match is.

Wilfred (Tyrone) - Posts: 37 - 14/09/2009 22:03:49    425867

We can see that there are historical reasons for not playing certain sports in certain areas. But should we not be talking about how to change this.

Where I came from none of the older players or management ever played hurling so how were they ever going to show me how to play. This all comes down to yet again funding and the will to do something to promote hurling to the young lads of around 10 or 11. This is when you will take an interest in a sport that could continue for the rest of your life.

In Dublin they seem to have targeted the youth and I think everyone would agree its paying off. But I can't help thinking this was another master plan by the Grab All Association to milk the Dublin cash cow for the future.

If nothing else it demonstrates the expense and the effort required to merely give the likes of Kilkenny a game and with the limited funding available to the other county boards I can't see them doing this. Sad but true.

whitenred (Tyrone) - Posts: 156 - 15/09/2009 10:31:18    426143

Omaghjoe-take a bow.Bout time someone cleared up this myth.

fredrickwood (Roscommon) - Posts: 2871 - 15/09/2009 15:08:41    426605

lol cant believe that some people actually believe the version of history omagh joe just made up. hurling has very little to do with the normans, there are various reasons for hurling not being more widespread including ulster hurling being different and harder to play(aparrantly more like shinty with a heavy ball). also hurling was banned by the british and there was a lot more brits on the the look out for hurls in ulster and the pale etc than there was in munster. Gaelic football is 200-300 years old at most, hurling has been historically mentioned thousands of years ago, that doesnt make it any less irish but its not "ancient".

Up The Duff (Down) - Posts: 98 - 15/09/2009 16:41:04    426760

Up the Duff

Don't kid yourself, while there is no doubt that hurling probably did exist in some form before the Normans there can be no doubt that they popularised and regulated it into something of the form of the modern game and they are the reason for the geographical spread of hurling today.

Here is a map showng Norman Control in the middle ages:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/map1450.gif

I am aware of the game of camans being played in the glens even at the early part of the 20th century but there is little doubt that this was due to the games evolving differently due the isolation of the Ulster games after the end of Norman influence in Ireland.

Also the game of football or caid is probably only about 300-400 years old but some form of football was mentioned along with hurling during the Statues of Kilkenny so some form of football was around back then as well.

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 15/09/2009 19:57:54    426981

Well done Omagh Joe, great to hear that stuff. Might help some of those superior hurling snobs realise that we have two ancient Irish games to celebrate, both with a range of skills etc that set them apart from all other sports.

So let's celebrate them both and enjoy - particularly in this month of September.

PearseBro (Monaghan) - Posts: 459 - 15/09/2009 21:12:14    427058

I'll admit that the map of norman control does generally cover the areas that hurling is popular today and agree that they would have had some bearing on the development of the game, I don't believe that in over 500 years these hurling strongholds stayed exactly the same, hurling was played in other parts of the country and as I have already said was popular in ulster but was more like shinty.
The football "caid" that you where mentioning is basically an irish form of rugby not gaelic football, the ball could be carried and was very similar to games played in wales (cnapan) and cornwall, most of the rules of modern gaelic football where taken from hurling when the gaa was being founded to make it more uniquely irish as it had basically died out due to rugby having established rules by this stage. All of these FACTS are available in gaa literature and on the internet, anyone can read them and make their own judgement.

PearseBro

I couldn't really be described as a hurling snob, if the gaa in ulster is anything to go by hurlers are consistantly treated as 2nd class citizens.

Up The Duff (Down) - Posts: 98 - 15/09/2009 22:59:00    427283

Listen up the problem is that you can't take the games from one point of history.
They have been constantly evolving from the time people had spare time to use up

Who said that cnapan is Welsh? Its still played there sometimes so people think its Welsh. But then a form was played in Ireland for god knows how long

Modern football didnt have rules until the start of the GAA
Modern hurling didnt have rules until the start of the GAA

But hurling did have rules in some sort of regular form created by the Normans, whereas football while it always existed as well in some form didnt have regular rules, take a look at cnapan and you will see what I mean. I imagine pre Norman hurling was similarily chaotic.

Also I dont claim that football caid was around forever and it magically evolved into football.
At the early part of this century in my parish at least soccer was the mainstay before football took over and I would imagine this was the case throughout the country simply becasue soccer had established rules. No mention of camans or hurling way back in the last century thought, so I will stand by that the hurling areas are Norman areas and they maintained that link down through the centuries.

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 15/09/2009 23:26:39    427326

Joe there are reports of hurling being played in the loughshore area of East Tyrone in the 19th Century.... No Normans have been known to land there. We did have Vikings and we had Mountjoy among others but no Normans

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 15/09/2009 23:32:56    427335

Also Up the Duff

I think your reasoning that there was'nt as much Brits around in Munster as the reason they play hurling is total codswallop

There was plenty of Brits around Cork City for example or the Ards Pensuilla and they are hurling strongholds. Also I dont thnk there was no many Brits in Dingle, Conemara or the Hills of Tyrone for that matter forcing the popluation to play football instead of hurling.

omaghjoe (Tyrone) - Posts: 1191 - 15/09/2009 23:38:27    427340