I've usually not bothered with all the Ulster topics on here as usually there too crowded with Wums and fools but looking at Derry/Monaghan to-day has made it clear that there is a fundamental sickness in the soul of Ulster football. Not sure where it came from or why its there but no one who appreciates real football could not deny the ugliness of that match there to-day. It was ugly in terms of skill and even uglier in terms of spirit. Despicable would be an apt summation. It went way too far beyond what would casually be described as a tough hard game, it was utterly disgusting as a spectacle and I would describe those who got involved as cowards,: Not men.
Rather than dismiss this opinion I think those who truly love the game in our Northern province should at the least acknowledge the failings inherint within the way the game is played up there and do something about it.

mossbags (Galway) - Posts: 1089 - 24/05/2009 22:54:06    292518

mossbags, you have always been one of the more respected posters on here in my view & you have a right to your opinion as anyone else has. OK so today was ugly, yes it was, no amount of spin can hide that fact, but today was not exceptional in terms of Ulster so why all the self-righteouness bullsh*t from all an sundry? Look, the fact that there is now more live coverage of Ulster than ever before has probably brought our 'style' more into the open than before, its not new to me, nor shocking, nor newsworthy. Truth is once all us Ulster sides are done kicking seven bells of sh*te outta each other, when we turn our attention to the rest of the country we have the ability to adapt our game, and thats a fact. Trust me this isn't the whole picture for Ulster, put it down to a little 'local difficulty'.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 24/05/2009 23:22:45    292560

It's very hard to defend what went on there today and some of the off the ball stuff was a disgrace. It was petulant, nasty and dangerous at times and gives Ulster a bad name. However there are those who just love to stick the boot into the province at any turn and this will be manna from heaven for them. There are very good footballers in Ulster and some of the scores today were excellent but the pulling, dragging and wrestling was indefensible. We will take criticism from genuine posters but not the usual anti-Ulster partitionists who thrive on HS. They are probably working themselves into a joyful frenzy as we speak.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 24/05/2009 23:26:53    292571

Wait until you see the Cavan v Fermanagh game. Guaranteed that there will be little or no dirty stuff there. Two good games between them in '97 !!

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 24/05/2009 23:32:29    292578

Brendt, if what your saying is that this is what its going to be like for every Ulster game then hopefully RTE will reassess their coverage next year. However I suspect that you're just being defensive and that in reality not all Ulster games are actually this bad. I am delighted to see Ulster posters on here admitting that this game was putrid and I will in turn admit that there were some high quality scores taken and some good passages of play thrown in, enough to show that there is undoubtedly potential for both Derry and Monaghan later in the year. Now that we have so many Ulster pundits on RTE, willing to call a spade a spade and come clean, maybe some of the Ulster posters on here will see things with less of a rose tinted viewpoint and tone down their defense of the province. Maybe then it will cease to be the centre point of all Hoganstand discussions and need less defending. I for one have nothing against Ulster but find it hard to stomach some of the staunch anti southern view points on here in particular. Hopefully this will lead to a more truthful and educated discussion board.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 24/05/2009 23:48:44    292596

In my workplace in Dublin in 2004, I overheard some Galway women saying how good it was to get Sam back down South again. Partitionist Fine Gael mindsets everywhere. I don't recall as much self-righteousness about 1990s vintage Meath. They battered Tyrone off the pitch in the mid 90s, all I remember was Tyrone lads with bandages and blood and Canavan taken out of it by two Meath midfielders. Or Dublin in the 80s when Mullins concussed our midfielder with an elbow to the head, caried off to hospital and Dublin got a goal off the foul. Short memories alright.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 25/05/2009 00:04:25    292609

thykingdom

It cuts both ways. While I accept that many Ulster posters are very defensive it's not all paranoia. There are those outside the province who ARE partitionist and just don't like Nordies or Ulster football full stop. Let's not pretend otherwise and the downright abuse and disrespect shown towards Tyrone in particular has been a disgrace. They have not been given their position or due respect as 3 times All Ireland winners in this decade and the constant sniping at them and excuses churned out as to why Kerry have lost against them is laughable. It was always either puke football, blanket defence, rough house tactics etc etc etc. Very few have said maybe it was because Tyrone were the better side. That out of the way some of the antics in the Derry/Monaghan game were a disgrace. Given that the TV cameras were there did some of these players not realise that they would be monitored and scrutinised by commentators, pundits and officials? It is sheer stupidity and indiscipline to do what some players did today and they deserve all the punishment coming to them.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 25/05/2009 00:14:34    292615

nicely put thykingdomcome...some people need to realise that genuine criticism directed at ulster championship football is not partitionist nor is it belittling...ill take genuine criticism against dublins failings over the past years but i dont have to believe its directed at me because i live "inside the pale" or for any political standpoint,its because dublin came up short and fair enough...my own point is that our game has problems..especially with discipline,tolerance and the amount of respect and control that a referee has over the procedings...todays events need to be commented on and aspects of todays game need to be punished to set an example for this years championship...we no longer can justify what can be nearly described as sporting assault as "handbags" or "getting to know each other"...i think the bigger picture has to be looked at here because i believe the game as a spectacle is being destroyed...this goes for any match in any provence that sees itself descend into todays debacle...its time to put things right before its too late.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 25/05/2009 00:14:35    292617

thykingdomcome, I was hoping that I was being realistic and truthful in what I was saying, as was Ulsterman. I am not so blinkered that u cant call a spade a spade but as I said, with Ulster, unlike any other province, there are so many petty rivalries, Tyrone v Derry, Tyrone V Armagh, Armagh V Down, Monaghan V Derry, and others, & like I say local difficulties. Whilst the shenanigans might be unpalatable to all you so called purists, to us Ulster boys its just another day at the office, all I will say is turn over channels to 'murder she wrote' or whatever else if you cant stand the sight of blood. But beware because when its the business end of the championship watch the transformation of the Ulster counties. Be afraid, be very afraid!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 25/05/2009 00:19:38    292620

24/05/2009 23:48:44
thykingdomcome
County: Kerry
Posts: 443

292596
Brendt, if what your saying is that this is what its going to be like for every Ulster game then hopefully RTE will reassess their coverage next year. However I suspect that you're just being defensive and that in reality not all Ulster games are actually this bad. I am delighted to see Ulster posters on here admitting that this game was putrid and I will in turn admit that there were some high quality scores taken and some good passages of play thrown in, enough to show that there is undoubtedly potential for both Derry and Monaghan later in the year. Now that we have so many Ulster pundits on RTE, willing to call a spade a spade and come clean, maybe some of the Ulster posters on here will see things with less of a rose tinted viewpoint and tone down their defense of the province. Maybe then it will cease to be the centre point of all Hoganstand discussions and need less defending. I for one have nothing against Ulster but find it hard to stomach some of the staunch anti southern view points on here in particular. Hopefully this will lead to a more truthful and educated discussion board.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kingdom thats BS.

Firstly we only defend ourselves when we have to put up with crap from loyal, paddy and tamoo. There is no thread on here started by an ulsterman that says Ulster championship is the best in the country (thats pat spillanes opinion). However there is thread that says Dublin Meath are fantastic and are going to "rescue the championship". There is another thread opened by a WUM specifically to run down Ulster football. You say its hard to stomach Anti southern viewpoints, sure I have had to stomach Anti-northern viewpoints from day 1. So I will not tone down my defence of my province as it needs defending from the WUM's and cour grapes out there.

trileacman (Tyrone) - Posts: 759 - 25/05/2009 00:25:32    292624

I must admit that when Tyrone/Armagh/Derry get into the latter stages of the All Ireland/National League series against teams outside the province I shout as loud for them as any Tyrone, Armagh or Derry fan so I accept that partitionist mindsets are not confined to South of the border. If we are honest many of us are guilty of it consciously and subconsciously. It's the result of a divided island and no different to Germany where East & West still don't trust each other nearly 20 years on from unity. I don't think we really know each other as people and rely too much on stereotypes. However I must admit to shock at some of the opinions on here about Ulster/Nordies etc. Some of it borders on hatred.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 25/05/2009 00:33:26    292630

Ah come on trileacman, what about all the 'tyrone best ... ever' threads?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 25/05/2009 00:55:12    292640

Wait for Dublin v Meath im sure it'll be twice as bad!

Jecht (Cavan) - Posts: 150 - 25/05/2009 01:08:46    292644

mossbags correct in your overall assumption. counties like derry and monaghan dont play football they think its still Y2000. armagh patented the ulster way but the difference with them and tyrone was that they both had quality in attack. derry and monaghan were a disgrace yesterday, both managers and super star trainers have a lot to answer for. the sooner both are out of the championship the better. it was like alien versus the terminator yesterday all thickness and ignorance and very little artistry. 14 men behind the ball and lump it to freeman and bradley, jesus youd think with the money floating about in both counties both management teams would have come up with a tactic that wasnt in vogue in the 1880s. two of the poorest games to start any ulster championship, which just goes to show that tyrone or armagh will win ulster again as the rest dont have the players or the brains.

reddoctor (Tyrone) - Posts: 1241 - 25/05/2009 08:22:53    292663

Cowardly nasty negative rubbish. If that's 'style' you're welcome to it. And by the way, what in the name of god is so tough about hitting people who are not looking at you?, diving for no reason, and constantly mouthing into opponents faces? Seriously? Dublin and Meath at the time some one referred to simply didn't tolerate this. Want to slag my mother? There you go my friend, slap in the mouth, and I'm looking you in the face. Could do with some of the same now.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 25/05/2009 08:44:22    292669

As a monaghan supporter the game of football played yesterday was not a ture reflection of ulster football. And in my opinion both teams were to blame for what happened on the pitch yesterday they were both equally as bad as each other. There was no respect shown by the players and they were certainly no role models for our game that we all love so much.

Ballybaygirl (Monaghan) - Posts: 5 - 25/05/2009 09:30:35    292690

In my opinion I have to pin most of the blame on Monaghan for yesterdays antics. We all seen it coming, in my opinion they are a dirty team and don't want to play football. And even though they are an ulster team, they are from the south! Now that they are out of ulster, i dont think we will see as bad a game as yesterdays.

Fermfave (Fermanagh) - Posts: 118 - 25/05/2009 09:38:31    292695

Mossbags, will have to get the game out of the road first. It was terrible. There were some very skilful scoring and good defending but as a spectacle it was the worst I have ever seen in some time.The problem is not an Ulster one but that of the GAA as a whole and their administration of the rules. I have seen Kerry as recent as last season having spectacles of similar negativity but no-one would suggest there was any problems with the munster championship. The greatest game played last year arguably was Down v Tyrone so why is the Ulster championship only measured on the poor games? Shallow analysis does'nt do justice to a problem which does need to be addressed accross the 32 counties.

I do agree however on your point that it was not a game for hard men, the shoulder crunching tackles that come from the likes of Cavanagh, Whelan, Bellew etc. were and are a great part of a manly game. Some of the niggly fowling displayed yesterday was sickening. It is not typical of the Ulster championship.

John Boss (Tyrone) - Posts: 865 - 25/05/2009 09:44:59    292699

Sorry there Brendt, I must say that if we could get the Ulster posters on here to admit the following then there would be no need for argument:-

You say Ulster is more competitive. Yes, more competitive in a way that made me turn the TV off yesterday and go for a walk and watch the highlights later on rather than watching murder she wrote like you suggested. Sure there's rivalry but teams are obviously being sent out with strict orders to bring the challenges further than the rules allow. To me anyway, there is nothing manly or physical about swinging high tackles around the neck or cheap headbutts or cheap shots to the knees. This is not physical football it's just cheap shots and I can get plenty of that if I went looking for it at any nigtclub across the country. There was no sign of what I would call physical aggressive football. It's just cheap and cowardly and could easily be stopped if the Provincial board dictated it. There's plenty of teams all over the country that hate each other right down to under 12 level and anywhere where this cheap thuggery is seen it is stamped out. Maybe if the Ulster Council would stamp out this type of stuff they would get my viewing back. As it is they had it for a moment (i watched the Fermanagh Down game and the start of yesterday's game) and then lost it a moment later. Not interested in watching it any longer but feel I have to comment for the good of the game. And it is only comment. I have nothing whatsoever against Ulster.

You might think that we should fear your fellow provincial teams but the fact is that Ulster teams are no different to the rest of the country. You have 2 teams that have won in the last 10 years. No different to any other province. In fact Connaught and Leinster have a more competitive competition if you judge it on this basis. The fact that the rest of the Ulster teams have real hard games between each other doesnt mean that it is at the same standard as Tyrone and Armagh. Yes they are competitive just like any level of any sport can be competitive.

Only 1 ulster team has appeared in the All Ireland final in the last 6 years. There have been 2 Munster teams. Remember that now that we have the back door, there is no justification for saying that that is because there is less competition in Munster. the fact is that Tipperary have the exact same route to the final now as Down and Monaghan. There will be twice as many Ulster teams in the back door as tehre will be Munster teams.

Also remember that on only 1 occassion has an Ulster team reached a semi final in the last 3 years, which of course was the fantastic Tyrone team of last year. Surely this gives a better picture of the standing of Ulster teams in the championship at the moment.

If you could just admit these points above, then I would easily admit that Ulster has a fantastically competitive championship, that has produced some brilliant teams and wonderful players in recent years. I would also say that they have brought the game to another level and it is better for it. I can also say that there are consistantly mighty points being kicked by many of the province's forwards. But, and I have to put this in, the recent 2 games prove signs of an endemic lack of leadership by the Ulster council to stamp out cheap and ugly behaviour on the pitch.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 25/05/2009 10:00:39    292714

Before you say Kerry kick and drag too, well I'll admit that. But I would admit it rather than beat around the bush avoiding the fact and trying to defend it. Hopefully you wont see any of the Kerry lads kneeing people in the groin this year like we've seen on a couple of occasisons from Ulster teams. Yes we were caught diving last year and yes we have issues with one or two of our players temperaments but it is not condoned down here. They were disgraced when they came home and the general feeling here is that it is not on.

Why can't it be the same elsewhere? Then we could get on and leave all this Ulster stuff out and talk about real football issues.

thykingdomcome (Kerry) - Posts: 1206 - 25/05/2009 10:00:52    292715