did mitchells field an illegal player on sunday ??? apparently a lad on the senior 15 played in the replay on sunday,surely that goes against the rules.

moonshine (UK) - Posts: 297 - 17/11/2009 13:06:27    486049

moonshine

if macs arent winning you are always complaining, mitchels were by far the best intermediate team this year, saying that them (senior and inters combinded) and brendans should have really been senior. On another note I see the team that beat macs by 2 or 3 points won the all britain and beat the all ireland finalists in doing so - shows you that the standard in warks isnt as bad as some people on here have been stating, I reakon if us or FMs won a championship we'd give the all britain a better shot than the macs would. How about Mark Mc Louglin for Warks Senior Manager think he would get the best out of players - hoey etc etc have been given a chance and proved they werent up to it.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 17/11/2009 14:47:02    486180

gael 2200,i am not complaining about anything just asking a question,which you didnt answer,so why waste your time with your ridcoulous post ????
Your comment about FM & yourselves giving the all britain a better shot than Macs makes no sense at all, you need to win your own county championship first,something which you havent done in a very long.
FM would be in a much better position than yourselves to have a go in the all britain,a very much improved side in recent years down to a bit of hard work & effort from lads within their club,doing very well this year to win the league, c`ship runners-up & still in with a shout of the Fr.Forde.Well done to them this year & i am sure they wll be looking to improve on that next year.
After this weekends semi-final games i presume they will get another shot at Macs.
Macs by 5 or 6 against EGB, FM by 7 or 8 against Mitchells.

moonshine (UK) - Posts: 297 - 17/11/2009 15:47:05    486269

Gael 2200, just to pick up on one point you made; I find it very difficult to accept that you would say Mitchells were the best intermediate team 'by a mile'. We lost to them by just 1 point, we played very poor and missed 3 goal chances, on another day it could have been a comfortable victory. We also smashed them twice in the league this year. Now I'm not saying we were the best team in intermediate by a mile, just that I don't believe Mitchells were either!

james_ohara (UK) - Posts: 33 - 17/11/2009 15:58:31    486276

I'd just be happy with the Championship gael2200. Masters are punching above their weight as it is, and much of our success is down to the fact our lads train hard and are probably fitter than most. We have a few top quality players but no where near the numbers axaiable to yourselves. I dpnt doubt that if you got your act together you could give the all Britain a crack. And your right, the standard ere cant be that bad. I think people just assume its dropped cos Masters are winning things. Fair play to Macs though, still the team to beat.

Hman (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 17/11/2009 16:02:01    486284

James you should have joined us a few years back when we asked you, you wouldnt be playing intermediate football now.

But your right sorry it was tight between mitchels, brendans and nottingham. In my eyes with st marys these teams should all be senior.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 17/11/2009 17:31:58    486394

this isn't the 1st time you have been linked with a move away!!! maybe if you concentrated on st barnabus rather than trying to engineer a move to other clubs your club might be able to progress james!!!

TheMan90 (UK) - Posts: 9 - 17/11/2009 18:51:47    486495

Gael2200 - Mitchells have proved they cannot win a first round tie in their own Championship never mind give a better account in the All-Britain than Macs. To suggest any different is slightly absurd, not critising any work your club is doing but your bottom of the league, poor in Mick Sugre. Fair play to the Inters for winning their Champ though.

I apologise in advance for using the soccer comparison but Macs remind me of Man U. Everyone wathces them play and thinks their beatable, past it and have no chance etc. But when it comes to the doing they have continually over the last number of years proved to be the team to beat - And proved it's a hard task to do so!!

Credit must go to Masters though, their dedication started 3 odd years ago when they committed to training and as a group of players. Their fitness is a main key, they do have some very good players, only concern I have is that their panel has no real strength in depth.

I expect EGB to come back stronger next year, Casements seem to be in trouble with management, Mitchells will want to retain the Inter so may again concentrate on that and Macs to be their usual self. Might just be a good year but that's all pre-season hype!!

thesilentone (UK) - Posts: 146 - 18/11/2009 09:11:45    486951

moonshine, the player you are referring to named in the first 15 was transferred to western shamrocks in australia at the start of the year, and it was an oversight by warks. county board not informing john mitchels he had to be replaced in the first 15 by another player, as he was inelligable to take part with mitchells, check rule 6.2. as things did not work out for him he returned to the uk and did not take part in any games in the uk until he was transferred back to john mitchells which was in the last couple of weeks, he was then elligable to play in the county final. this was clarified with the county board before he played to ensure he was legal to play. on the question of playing senior players, up to the final the only player who played senior in the last 2 years was andy doyle. so who are the senior players that are being refferred to? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also surely both brendans and marys could be classed as senior players both won the intermediate championshim, which they dominated for the last 4 years without taking the step up to senior level. john mitchelle senior team were unlucky to loose by 2 points to fm the senior finalists. every player on the intermediate would give their right arm to have a crack at playing senior football and will have the oppertunity to stake a place next year. on james's point we never claimed to be the best by a mile, but we stuck to the task in hand, yes the semi final was a close game with only a point seperating the sides, but a great game of football. barnabus scored four points from play johnn mitchells eleven, the missed chances on both sides tell their own story. Fair play to barnabus for the work they are doing in nottingham promoting gaa. keep it up

millbrook (UK) - Posts: 103 - 18/11/2009 09:40:46    486966

What utter tripe is being posted, you are all like school kids.............he done that...he done this..... just get on and play the game!!! Millbrook is correct in that Marys, Brendans (and Finbarrs i think) have all won the inter champ/league in recent years and refused to go to senior. Four Masters put the effort in, in recent years and have progressed in senior as soon and as best they could, they should be applauded. Barnabus should also be applauded as they also have put a lot of effort in and will eventually reap the benifits. Have a think to yourselves and remember how many games were called off against these teams in recent years because they couldnt field and how annoyed you were!! you cannot say that they do not field now! Brendans are due to go to senior next year as Mitchels cant for obvious reasons, they should be encouraged to go as they have a decent underage system meaning it would give more of their minors a chance at inter, rather than waiting to get onto their one and only adult team. Macs won the senior champ, they are the best senior team.......Mitchels won the inter champ, they are the best inter team. It does not matter how many times you are beat in the league or by how many points, all clubs aim to put their strongest team out for championship (i am sure they would like to do it every week put this rarely happens). From what i have seen this year the inter champ provided the better more competitive championship with replays and a good standard throughout. and before you all start whinging i am not saying they are better than senior teams just more competitive in terms of being closer together. What we all should be talking about is how to progress our game in the county.........making changes to the county board/fixture lists whatever you think will improve the county. My personnel opinion is that the board is stale and that nothing ever gets sorted. I do understand that it takes a lot of commitment and am not proposing myself, but being on the county board should not be seen a being guaranteed an all Ireland ticket. Look through your clubs and come up with proposals/personnel who can bring the county forward. All clubs have these individuals, lets make changes that adapt to our promoting our game in a foriegn land rather than "thats what they do at home" attitude. I would love to hear your thoughts but my initial feeling is that i wont get many as i am not entering into a slagging match.

Bothered (Leitrim) - Posts: 20 - 18/11/2009 14:00:54    487286

Millbrook, You are a sharp one on eligibility. I recall some of your posts a few months ago accusing another club. Interesting comments on the eligibility of a player named as a Senior Player by one club in Warwickshire at the start of the year, who subsequently left and rejoined that club through an inter-county transfer. I would point out that it is not necessarily the Boards responsibility to seek a replacement name on the list of 15 Senior players. In leaving a player on the list of 15 Senior Players after he transferred out I would suggest that he has remained a Senior Player within Warwickshire for this years competitions. Your clubs failure to nominate a replacement is the crux of the matter here. They were happy to leave him as a named senior player in the apparent knowledge that he would not be back, so freeing up another player to play at a lower grade. This is an abuse of the "15 Named Players" bye law and had a knock on affect on the intermediate and junior grades, in which your club may also have been involved. In my view the least that should have happened is that the club should have applied for a formal re-grading to the County Committee before he played any grade lower than senior in Warwickshire. Dont know who the player involved is, but would refer you to Official Guide 2009, Rules 6.15 1a) ii, 6.15 b), 6.2, 6.21, 6.4, 6.8 & 6.10c. My understanding of these is that unless approved by a County Committee in line with a specific bye-law, a player (and I quote) "may not be subsequently regraded during that championship year". Whatever the grade of the players club in Australia "A player who joins a club whose highest grade is lower than that players current championship status shall be automatically regraded to that club`s highest championship grade". As he started the year a senior player, then surely this was his "Current Championship Status" when he transferred back, so was he not still a senior graded player? I am always open to correction. There are several people in Warwickshire who are not on the County Board but who know the Official Guide and where to look in it very well. Which rule are you saying he is governed by? Either in transferring back and his club having failed to nominate a replacement senior player he has remained senior on his original Warwickshire grading or by transferring in he should automatically been senior, subject to a formal regrading. Did the formal regrading take place? If not I cannot see how he could play intermediate. Which rule is he covered by?

patrick (UK) - Posts: 52 - 18/11/2009 14:53:11    487364

Bothered, I would suggest you are as bad as everyone else with the 'Utter Tripe posted on here' My own club, St Marys have never been asked to go senior, we have won the Inter Champ 2 years out the last 4 since we left senior then but the County Board has always asked the league winners to go senior. The last 4 winners of the league have been Barnabus (2009), Noamh Padraig (2008) , St Finbars (2007) and John Mitchells (2006). Therfore neither Brendans nor Marys have been asked to go senior?? Mitchells clearly couldnt go senior when they won the league, Finbars said that they lost players and would not enter at Senior that year, Noamh Padraig challenged the ruling regarding champ winners going up rather than the league winners last year to the county Board and subsequently won hence why the rule has been changed back this year to Champ winners. From my understanding a group of people on the Co Board will now decide who goes up as Mitchells who won the champ this year clearly cant. Unless the leagues are restructured ( 2 leagues instead of 3 as discussed elsewhere) then i think one club will be asked which more than likely will be between Brendans who were champ runners up and Barnabus who won the league. The inter champ , like most years, has been hard faught and very close, St Marys were beaten by Mitchells fair and square in a replay when we were close to winning in Wolverhampton but congrats to Mitchells for digging in and getting the replay and subsequently winning it. The Inter league on the other hand has been a joke, we 'played' 8 out 14 games because teams could not be bothered to play , mainly due to travelling to Wolverhampton where 3 out of 9 scheduled games only took place!

blackandwhite (UK) - Posts: 64 - 18/11/2009 16:54:50    487542

Does the date of the transfer make a difference? I think, although i could be wrong, that the transfer to the austrailian team came after Mitchels exiteded the Senior Championchip to Four Master and that the player in question came back to Birmingham before actually playing for the austailian team.

Mick83 (Wicklow) - Posts: 67 - 18/11/2009 16:56:01    487546

Patrick, in your haste to jump on Milbrook for things that were said earlier in the year you looked past the part of his post where he mentioned that clarification was sought from the CB on the matter. CB approved the player to play intermediate (this dragged on for months by the way, clarification was first sought before Mitchels first championship game). So any amount of bickering doesn't change the fact that he was legal, and that Mitchels deserved their win. Anything else would smack of sour grapes I'm afraid.

dowchabiy (UK) - Posts: 204 - 18/11/2009 17:01:06    487553

Patrick

I have to agree with recent posts you sound a bit of a hypocrite saying somebody said things about your club and now you have done the same. You dont know the facts and i know Mitchels got county board approval so there is no point debating it.

warwick (UK) - Posts: 15 - 18/11/2009 17:46:43    487612

Black and white, i dont want to get into an argument but either way there are teams refusing to go senior, i am farily sure that the bye law has changed between league or champ winners going up, you say yourself that the rule has been "changed back" this year

I do agree that there should be only two leagues and i think that yourselves, Barnabus and possibly Noamh Padraig are good enough for a senior league. two years ago ( i think? ) when the motion was put forward for the return of 3 leagues it was stated that the previous season had 51 games still outstanding. it was also pointed out that 3 leagues meant even more fixtures ( champs and cups for 3 leagues as opposed to 2 ) I am farily sure that the club who put this motion forward was Finbars..............where have they been in the last two years?. (I'll even quote "this is the system we have at home") backward thinking!!!! WE ARE NOT AT HOME!

We have seen the strong re emergence of Four Masters, Barnabus, and Chads in recent years, yet we have clubs such as Finbars and Rugby Gaels and even EGB struggling to field.

I would like to see as many clubs thriving as possible, not see any struggling, hence my request for forward thinking and a bit of a change at the top as nothing has progressed in my eyes in recent years.

As i say i am on hear because i love our sport, not to bicker about who has the bigger or better tallywhacker

Bothered (Leitrim) - Posts: 20 - 18/11/2009 17:55:21    487625

Bothered, i do not want to get into an argument either it just seems a lot of people have said 'Marys refused to go senior' on here and its not true, we were never asked along with a number of clubs who people assume should be senior but through there own choice refused to go up.

The only clubs recently who refused are Noamh Padraig and Finbars, im sure they have there reasons which are upto them to defend. The laws have 'changed back' as its seems they are always swapping between league and champ winners being promoted be it inter or Junior depending on who shouts loudest at the AGM that year!

The 3 league system has not worked this year, does anyone know who won Junior this year for example or are St Chads coming up to Inter as they won the junior champ and who gets relagated to junior EGB , Rugby, Finbars...............who knows!!
Im sure at the AGM it will all be sorted out one way or the other , me personnally would put the 8 clubs throughout the county who always field to be put at senior and the rest at Junior.
The amount of games called off is a joke because teams dont travel, it would not happen in Amatuer rugby and Football so why should it happen at GAA??

blackandwhite (UK) - Posts: 64 - 18/11/2009 19:31:11    487712

Warwick,

On the basis of the facts given, it looks pretty "Open & Shut" to me.

As it happens I do know what happened, I know what the rules are and I know that certain things can only be agreed by a Board Meeting at which a Quorum is present. Not by one member of the Board, who would certainly not have the authority to over-rule the Official Guide.

The correct person to seek guidance from on eligibility is the County Secretary and always has been - was this done?

If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes thats fine by me. Someone has to stick up for the rules - the Official Guide is our rule book and it looks to me like it hasnt been complied with.

If my interpretation of the rules is incorrect, please enlighten me?

If what I have said is correct, whats your problem?

patrick (UK) - Posts: 52 - 18/11/2009 22:35:00    487791

Patrick

If you know the facts why are you asking if county secretary was informed??? As an earlier post says and its my understanding as well the county secretary was informed in July. Maybe he needs to be asked what has he done or hasnt done as the case may be??? How could you know ALL the facts as when has it involved you????? From your views you clearly dont and just swallowed a rule book with some gaps in wording???? Is it because your not a county board member anymore?

warwick (UK) - Posts: 15 - 18/11/2009 23:28:08    487870

Warwick,

Ouch!

The question asked in my first post on this subject was:

"Was the player formally regraded?", which means was this ratified by the County Board and were all clubs made aware of the regrading? As far as I am aware this is the correct process when regrading is sought and granted, whether a Gradings Committee or the Full Board is involved in adjudication.

If this has not happened St Brendans cannot help but feel agrieved.

You are saying this happened in July and other posters also claim that he was regraded, but are less specific. That is fine by me and the Boards minutes will therefore confirm this.

In that case of course he was entitled to play - Simple question asked, simple answer sought and now given.

The claim posted by one of you`re mates, whose reference to Official Guide Rule 6.2 was the only reason I looked at it, that transferring in & out had changed the players grade (the main point in my original posting) was in my view not correct, however it becomes a red herring if the Board had already regraded the player.

Conversation over.

I will make no further postings on this subject. Feel free to have my original posting removed if you feel it falls outside of the House Rules. I think the points raised and questions asked in it were valid.

patrick (UK) - Posts: 52 - 19/11/2009 10:05:26    488059