Che1959 - I was looking at your two tier system a few posts ago. I am a Marys man and agree that thier needs to be two divisions with more teams in them. My gripe would be playing senior league football and intermediate ch'ship football. Why would we not be in the the counties top cup competion if we were in the counties top league

Burdo (Dublin) - Posts: 29 - 16/10/2009 13:56:09    456449

burdo

have a look at my post i agree with you 2 championships would be great to see nottingham or marys in a senior semi or final.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 16/10/2009 14:22:34    456469

If FMs can do it with hard work and dedication any team can.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 16/10/2009 14:23:22    456471

You would not be playing Senior league you will be playing Division 1. This is a system used in many counties. For championship purposes Marys et al will retain their intermediate status and thus will compete against teams more on their level come championships. If Mary's were to play EGB, Macs, RC's and FM's at Championship strength they would be comprehensively beaten. They stand more chance against these teams in a league environment where they are less likely to be at full strenth every week thus increasing the chance of an upset.

Che1959 (Galway) - Posts: 56 - 16/10/2009 21:10:48    456873

Mary's and Barnabus couldn't even beat Mitchels intermediates in the championship this year. And Mitchels showed how ordinary they were in the final. How do Mary's reckon they should be competing senior?

an_carraig (UK) - Posts: 55 - 17/10/2009 18:29:45    457286

I am a Marys man and at no point have we ever said we said should be playing senior football, the way the leagues and championships are structured at the minute we are not a senior club at any level. The issue is that the stronger clubs at inter, who field regulary as well, Barnabus, Brendans, Noamh Padraig and Marys should be put up to a new senior league as thats where every club should want to be playing there sport at the highest level possible. If one of those clubs went up next year to senior they would not compete, hence why no one has wanted to the last few years. If they all went up would mean they would at least compete in some games with each other whilst getting as many games as possible against the stronger teams and hopefully closing the gap on them in the meantime. I remember Four Masters being at the level Marys and the others are at now and look at them , maybe winning the senior league and senior champ finals. The inter league this year has been a joke with those clubs mentioned above pretty much being the only ones fielding in it, we have had walkovers this year against Finbars twice, Rugby gaels , Noamh Padraig, Erin Ga Bragh and Mitchells who all pretty much could not be bothered to travel to Wolverhampton to play league games. As for being unable to Mitchells then fair play to them, i like most people thought the inter champ this year would be between those clubs at inter who always field. What i wil say though is having beaten Mitchells Inter in the league this year, took them to a replay in the champ and having played Mitchells senior in the Father Taffe cup as part of a combined team, the strongest team we faced from Mitchells club wasnt the senior one!

blackandwhite (UK) - Posts: 64 - 18/10/2009 22:24:13    458206

I think black and white if you read Burdo's post he is saying you should be playing senior football.

bill1 (UK) - Posts: 7 - 19/10/2009 08:32:37    458371

Bill 1 - Think you will see if you read Burdo's post he says thats St Marys should be playing Senior Football if there are 2 divisons. If there is the current 3 divisions next year with the same number of teams and the same structure for the leagues and cups then clearly we wouldnt be senior as we could not compete with the current clubs up there.

Those clubs who field regularly at inter should be put up to expand the Senior league to make it a divison of 8 with the Junior and rest of the inter clubs being put together to make another division.

blackandwhite (UK) - Posts: 64 - 19/10/2009 10:42:42    458493

Can anyone tell me the results from yesterdays All Britian Club Championship games.

audacious (UK) - Posts: 24 - 19/10/2009 11:15:17    458549

Black and white, I'm all in favour of expanding the senior league, however the problem that occurs, and is part of the reason that we have got to where we are at at the moment, is that invariably someone becomes the whipping boys, and when it comes to these boys then travelling long distances for hammerings teams start giving walkovers. We then end up with a situation like tou see in the intermedate league at the moment, Which is very frustrating. Don't get me wrong i think if teams come up and stick at it, it is the way forward. Maybe a way round it would be to split the league after everyone has played once. Then the top teams play a further two games against one another and the bottom teams likewise. This way the newer weaker teams will only have to endure the one hammering while teams that make the step up successfully have the chance of challenging the established teams on a regular basis.

Hman (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 19/10/2009 17:44:07    459210

It is quite evident that the gap between Intermediate and Senior is a large one, whereas the gap between Junior and Intermediate isn't! We should revert back to 2 leagues and certainly expand the Senior league as there are not enough regular fixtures for them to play! Players motivation towards any sport will start to suffer if they aren't playing regular league fixtures! My club went at least 2 months without a fixture and that is just crazy!

Those teams that try to field in all 3 leagues are out of their minds.. or at least certain individuals in those clubs are out of their minds! Club resources are stretched and players end up playing 2 matches back to back, which isn't beneficial to anyone involved!

ciarraileaid (Kerry) - Posts: 3 - 20/10/2009 15:23:08    460370

Did anyone travel to the all britain q/f beaten by 4 points lucky it wasnt mitchels or kierans as the gap would have been much greater.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 20/10/2009 15:48:58    460409

Sorry,

club bias should not come into it!!!!!!!!!!!! canvess the right people!!

i am sorry for the rant but over the years i have seen little progression in terms of thinking! let us get our heads together and come up with a plan to progress our fantastic game.

All thoughts are welcome, this site should be for promoting our game rather than "my clubs better than yours" slobber.

Bothered (Leitrim) - Posts: 20 - 21/10/2009 07:47:40    461151

Ciarraileaid, Can you explain the logic behind your suggestion on increasing the size of the senior leagues, given that you have said that there is a big gap between senior & intermediate. An intermediate club that isnt able to win the championship in that grade is hardly likely to want to go senior under those circumstances! To answer a previous poster, the suggestion of all county football league set up, with different divisions but ignoring championship gradings was suggested a few years ago by a now former Board officer. The clubs ignored the suggestion, out of hand. Not sure if any of the delegates mentioned it to their members. I suggest that it is the clubs you need to persuade, not the Board. Perhaps it is an avenue worth considering but not half cocked! Eligibility and rules must be established before it starts so that is doesnt degenerate into a series of arguments, objections & investigations. If intermediate clubs are forced into the senior grade at championship, there must be some protection for them so that they can find their feet at the higher grade. Perhaps the Fr Taaffe Cup could be played for initially by the former intermediate clubs as a Senior "B" Championship and thereafter between first round losers, but as a Senior "B" Championship so that these clubs have some "buy in" to an enforced and inappropriate regrading. We must be careful to ensure that short term gain (an enlarged SFC) does not result in log term loss (uncompetitive teams folding). It is about now that the schools initiative should be having an affect on our clubs but in most cases it appears to be benefiting the strong and leaving the rest with very little. There is at least as big a gap between the top & bottom clubs in the intermediate league, as there is between senior & intermediate. Probably isnt doing Rugby Gaels any good, they deserve to be playing in an appropriate grade. Reading a previous post a member apparently voiced an opinion that they should not be in the same grade as St Barnabas, however Nottingham were whipping boys at senior for several years before they went down, so who is right? In the 1960`s the Fr Forde Cup was run from the end part of one season to the early part of the next. It was for senior teams as is the case now, but commenced after the JFC was over and the junior champions were included in the draw (there was no intermediate grade at the time). It gave the Junior champions a crack at a senior team in preparation for the following season. Lots of possibilities, just need to agree on the right ones!

patrick (UK) - Posts: 52 - 21/10/2009 12:02:50    461382

Patrick

no matter what format is given the go ahead why cant we schedule more midweek or friday matches? why with a senior league of 5 teams are we still playing league matches and its nearly november?

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 21/10/2009 13:52:21    461587

gael2200

Not sure why you want so many midweek games when there are spare slots at Pairc Na h`Eireann on most Sundays throughout the year.

Sunday is our traditional day for playing games, unless you had forgotten.

Nothing against midweek games myself, but how many Birmingham teams would travel to Corby or Northampton on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening in July?..............does not generally happen. Leicester, Nottingham, Northampton used to travel into Birmingham midweek for underage in the 1990`s, rarely reciprocated by the way.

Clubs seem to be up for midweek fixtures until one is made, then suddenly it is their training night or something else.................. I`ve been at the meetings and heard all the excuses. There are a few honourable exceptions to this.

I am not proposing that any changes are made to the current grading structures. I have no opinion either way.

The point I would make is that any proposals should be carefully considered in advance so that any downside can be recognised, rather than agreed with as an expedient at the last minute because there is nothing else on the table. It is important to get it right.

patrick (UK) - Posts: 52 - 21/10/2009 17:26:25    461865

Patrick

If there are so many free slots why are only a few games scheduled each sunday? If we are gonna have games only on a sunday lets start the games at 11:00 and play more fixtures. Traditional day?? this is the type of attitude why our games will not survive we need to compete with other sports and keep young players interested. I didnt say all games so when scheduling the fixture list distances to travel should obviously be taken into consideration.

The county board should show some metal and set out a realistic fixture list and impose penalties upon those clubs who dont honour there fixtures (moonshine will obviously have another jab at me with this one).

Of course changes have to be made to the current structure if a senior team goes through a season not playing one game in 2/3 months in the middle of summer something has to be looked at.

Senior

Sean Macs, Erin Go Bragh, John Mitchels, Four Masters, Roger Casements, St Barnabas, St Mary's, St Brendans, Naomh Padraig

Junior

St Chads, St Finbarr's, Erin Go Bragh Jnr, Sean Macs Jnr, Casements Jnr, Mitchels Jnr, O'Rahilly's, Sons of Erin, The Gaels

League play each other once
Championship straight knockout Snr & Jnr
2 Cups for each league

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 21/10/2009 19:24:00    461973

Your proposal would not work as both of your championships would be dominated by the larger clubs. Either Macs, Casements, JM's or EGB would be certain to win the Senior and I would expect these teams 2nd strings to dominate the Junior. How can you seriously expect St Mary's or Brendans to compete against the likes of EGB and Macs at senior championship strength??? Incorporating these clubs into a Division 1 type league whilst retaining their intermediate status for championships would be more practical. As Master's have shown the league is about who can field their strongest team throughout the year, as they have 4 victories against EGB and Macs respectively who fielded severely weakened teams. As an EGB man you will know that we seldom field at full strength in the league, thus increasing the likelihood of an upset from which the weaker teams can benefit. I for one can remember travelling to Leicester and Notts with a weakened team and struggling.

Che1959 (Galway) - Posts: 56 - 21/10/2009 21:57:04    462224

The big issue here is competition. Intermediate teams refusal to move to up to Senior level after winning the championship/league has resulted in our Senior league shrinking and from the outside in that doesn't reflect well on Warwickshire GAA! It has already been proven that a team that were once the whipping boys of the Senior League have turned it around and are now challenging for top county honours!

If a team decides to fold because they are frightened of being beaten convincingly, where's the love for the sport? Where's the determination to improve and be proud of their achievements (even if that is just to say, 'We are a Senior League team!')? There have been many upsets in recent years and it has been highlighted that teams like EGB, Mitchels and Macs don't always field full strength teams for the league! Why be happy and content with having it relatively easy at a lower level, just to collect mediocre honours?! You don't see yoyo clubs in other sports moan and complain about getting thrashed in the top leagues! They want to get back up there, compete and improve!

Why are we any different?

ciarraileaid (Kerry) - Posts: 3 - 21/10/2009 23:54:39    462405

Che1959

St Barnabas, St Mary's, St Brendans, Naomh Padraig on there day are capable of causing an upset if they are well prepared and dedicated like FMs have been this year anything is possible thats the point of championship, do we see teams in the FA cup saying we dont want to play in this because we are never gonna beat liverpool or other big clubs?

Senior

Junior

Lets just get on with it.

gael2200 (UK) - Posts: 195 - 22/10/2009 10:34:40    462577