patrique You're post comes close to the reality of the situation. After the famine a huge mass of Irish descended on Glasgow. Most of them spoke little or no English, they were in a totally presbyterian Country that resented and detested them and they were totally impoverished. Bro. Walfrid was amongst a group who founded Glasgow Celtic in 1888, in the first instance to raise money to help feed the starving children and also to give these demoralised people something to identify with, something to believe in. And yes the Club symbolised everything they had lost, it became a substitute for their National identity and the only way they could express their Irishness. Celtic are more then a football Club, Tommy Burns expressed it when he said "When you pull on the Celtic jersey you are not playing for a football Club you are playing for a people and a cause". its position is much the same as what Barcelona is to the Catalan people. I empathise with those "Scottish" lads who are, as you say searching for an identity, I am a member of the AICSC and a chairman of a local supporters club. I deal with dozens of Clubs and hundreds of supporters including a lot of lads from Belfast, and I have never heard of the type of racist prejudice that you alluded to. Yes in the pubs around the Barras you might hear a few lads singing The Broad Black Brimmer or The Boys of the Old Brigade even though the police have all but stamped that out by now, if that is your idea of racist. Overall these lads are the best you will ever meet and I for one am proud to be a Celt.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 03/03/2009 21:53:22    223405

dhorse Where is their own country??? The Celtic supporters i was refering to were the ones living in Scotland. Ok???

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 213 - 03/03/2009 21:53:42    223406

NO NO NO NO ..

Dellboypolecat (Tyrone) - Posts: 15069 - 03/03/2009 21:56:03    223413

tomaoo7 we are still waiting to hear exactly what it is that Rangers are supposed to be doing for GAA in Scotland! Thats what I and I guess most others on this thread would like to hear before passing judgement on their efforts, good or bad, so i would'nt start getting all touchy feely just yet.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 03/03/2009 22:04:42    223418

03/03/2009 20:16:46 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 2326 223333 Corkcelt, I was born in Ireland, that makes me Irish. Born in Scotland you are Scottish. Politically we have the United Kingdom, and Great Britain and all that, and these people are entitled to a British passport. No-one has yet mentioned that hundreds of thousands of Irishmen support Rangers, due to links with the club. Are Rangers "Irish" in that case, or would they be like Celtic, a Scottish team? I know many fine Celtic supporters, football supporters. You could compare them to ordinary decent Orangemen, in that their fathers and forefathers before them were Celtic fans, and they did likewise, just like many ordinary Orangemen. A close friend at work, totally anti-sectarian and anti-racist, has been watching Celtic since 1962, attending many games. He is however mature enough to confess that alas there are many thousands of bigots allegedly supporting the club. However 90% of my local Celtic supporters club dislike non-Catholics, black people, foreigners, English people (bar those who play for Man United or Liverpool) and would be serious bigots. Alas they are a bit like those unfortunate Northern Protestants memorably described by Susan McKay in her magnificent book as being "in search of an identity". They want to be "Irish" but have no concept of Irish culture, language, music or games. To them Glasgow Celtic, a Scottish football team, are the most "Irish" thing in the world. Best summed up by the great photo of the lad outside Croke in the Celtic jersey with the banner "Say no to Foreign Games". So Corkcelt, I am Irish by dint of birth, but I do not consider myself superior to other nationalities by dint of Irish birth. At least you are consistent. Paragraph after paragraph of nonsense every time - making no sense! Using words like "alas" and quoting certain literature in a paltry attempt to intellectualise your arguement. The "I am from a nationalist backgorund yet understand my unionist neighbours" routine is old and fools nobody. And as for the nonsense of "...thousands of Irishmen support Rangers, due to links with the club. Are Rangers "Irish" in that case..." Do you really believe that these guys would see rangers as an Irish club?? They are welcome to and i would support them but Cop yourself on! Flags have political significance. Never have I seen a majority of Irish flags among the rangers fans. (Yes I am aware that there is a Dublin Rangers supporters group and that's perfectly fine. Not sure if they are irish converts or ex-Pats living in Dublin but either is fine) Pretty much always I have seen a majority of Irish flags among Celtic supporters. Where they are located is one thing but how the fans feel in their hearts is another. Was it Wellington (open to correction) who said "...if I was born in a stable would you call me a horse..." in response to a question about his nationality? It's just the same old nonsense from patriqeu!

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 03/03/2009 22:09:17    223427

I remember 2003 tyrone's Peter Canavan taking the Sam McGuire over to Celtic for a function and was paraded around Parkhead before a Game,and Dublins Ken Doherty parading The World snooker championship trophy at Old Trafford in 1997, 2009? 0r 2059 I can't imagine Sam or Liam being taking to Ibrox in my life time or my Grandchildren life time thats just the way it is.

williewentwell (Tyrone) - Posts: 1712 - 03/03/2009 22:37:02    223462

The famous Celtic player Tommy Gemmell is a Scottish Protestant. In his autobiography he mentioned the bigotry in Scotland and says he still gets it from Rangers fans 35 years after he left the club. He acknowledges that there is bigotry on both sides both then also states "I have to say it is far far worse on the Rangers side". I have been going to Celtic Park for over 20 years and a curse in the ground now would get you a funny look from fellow fans let alone a sectarian remark. Celtic fans police themselves and anyone looking to cause trouble at away matches in Scotland and Europe is clamped down on by fellow fans. Of course there are many decent Rangers men, I have met a lot of them in the North and Scotland, but there is nasty, sectarian rump who follow Rangers for one reason, they still see them as the bastion of Scottish & Northern Protestantism. David Murray knows this but also knows that kicking this rump out would also hit Rangers in the pocket. There is a brilliant Scottish journalist called Graham Spiers who writes for the Sunday Times. He has written often about this problem Rangers have. Murray has been looking to sell Rangers for the last 5 years but has had no real offers while the club is burdened by massive debt underwritten by Murray International Holdings, David Murray's parent company who own Rangers. Manchester did a lot of damage to Rangers as have the UEFA fines. It is not unfair to say that they are firmly on UEFA's radar and any potential buyers have been put off by their image and massive debt.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 03/03/2009 22:40:22    223465

monaghan_ultra
County: All
Posts: 87

223406 dhorse

Where is their own country???


The Celtic supporters i was refering to were the ones living in Scotland. Ok???


ok , pray tell me what oppression are they suffering, didn't notice too many migrating this way in the celtic tiger era, cant be too bad over there.

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 03/03/2009 22:44:24    223474

williewentwell
County: Tyrone
Posts: 475

223462 I remember 2003 tyrone's Peter Canavan taking the Sam McGuire over to Celtic for a function and was paraded around Parkhead before a Game,and Dublins Ken Doherty parading The World snooker championship trophy at Old Trafford in 1997, 2009? 0r 2059 I can't imagine Sam or Liam being taking to Ibrox in my life time or my Grandchildren life time thats just the way it is.

Indeed, or the counties cricket cup being paraded in clones before an ulster final

dhorse (Laois) - Posts: 11374 - 03/03/2009 22:45:59    223477

dhorse ok , pray tell me what oppression are they suffering, didn't notice too many migrating this way in the celtic tiger era, cant be too bad over there. Pray tell where or when did i say that they were being oppressed???

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 213 - 03/03/2009 22:54:04    223491

dhorse

I don't think you have a clue. The Scottish Catholic Cardinal Keith O'Brien has made reference to the anti-Catholic undercurrent that runs through Scotland. The world famous Scottish composer James McMillan, a Scottish Catholic, has also written and spoke about this on many occasions. Both Cardinal O'Brien and James McMillan have been lamasted and ridiculed by the Scottish media because they have spoken out and indeed James McMillan eventually left Scotland. It has also been established that a disproportionate number of Scots with Irish sounding names are given prison sentences compared to those with Scottish names when in a court. Catholics make up about a fifth of the country's population but are nearly a third of the prison population. Scotland was the hub of the Protestant Reformation in Britain and many there still hold these anti-Catholic views including many in the legal, political and media world. I know as I visit Scotland often and it is just not paranoid Celtic fans who make these accusations.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 03/03/2009 22:55:26    223494

Glasgow soccer team recognises Gaelic sports and a million headline writers pee their breeks.

Given some Rangers supporters' historic antipathy to Gaelic games I suppose it's worth recording, but you'd be forgiven for thinking the past 15 year in Scottish society hadn't happened judging by the hooplah this story is creating.

Going by what Harpsman is saying, the Ibrox Peep O'Day Boys swaggered past the roadsign to Damascus ages ago. It ain't news. How many pats (sorry) on the head will Rangers need to be assured it practices civilised values and quit wallowing in victim status every time the SPL or UEFA pick up on the idiot singing of a vocal minority.

Why this story now? Other than the newspaper reports, can anyone point out where Mr Gormley made the statements attributed to him? Can anyone show me a response from Rangers?

All things considered, I think the whole story is absolutely bloody embarrassing.

Field_Kelt (UK) - Posts: 1 - 03/03/2009 23:11:56    223510

Why should Rangers, a soccer club, support the GAA, a rival sporting organisation? The GAA would not be too keen on supporting local soccer clubs in say, South Armagh?

fear aontroma (Antrim) - Posts: 94 - 03/03/2009 23:22:39    223515

Very good points Corkcelt, but in Edinburgh Hibernian have a similar story, founded by the Irish for those Irish who ended up in that City.

Why is there no support for them in Ireland? Does it lack the absence of a Rangers for a bit of spice and local rivalry.


Someone posted about Tommy Gemmill. All very true, sure the same thing happened to Mo Johnson.


Real Louth, have you ever been in Northern Ireland? Answer truthfully now.

You see, take 100 Rangers men from Sandy Row, at home or at Ibrox, British to a man.


Put them in a Spanish holiday resort with 100 English football supporters, Irish to a man.

Oh, by the way, I hate ALL nationalists, including Mrs T and Hitler. Hitler was a bit like a Celtic "Irish" supporter in that he was a German Nationalist from Austria. And I do not purport to understand my unionist neighbours or even attempt to. I simply get on with genuine people. Falseness however in people does repel me.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 03/03/2009 23:34:39    223522

Patrique

When I sing my support of Celtic I don't sing of hating anybody for their religion or ethnic identity. I sing of old Celtic players, the way we try to play football and our past achievements. I can't say the same of many Rangers fans who are perpetually up to their neck in Fenian Blood and call on me to surrender or I'll die at their home and away matches. Now I won't for one one minute say our fans are 100% perfect but the international football authorities and many cities across Europe go out of their way to welcome us while fearing Rangers and their fans. Some of the Spanish & Catalan press after Rangers played Barca at the Camp Nou was scathing and pondered the question "how could Celtic put up with this all these years" and said we should get an award for it. Many Rangers fans treated Barcelona as an open toilet while they sang their support of Franco, his fascist forces and Real Madrid. Rangers fans were also pictured giving Nazi salutes........in Israel of all places. As for Manchester last year well that spoke for itself. Did you know that the big screens at the 2003 UEFA Cup final failed for a while in Seville? What did we do, we sang and danced until they were repaired, we didn't wreck the city and attack the police. Enough said already!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 03/03/2009 23:53:23    223535

03/03/2009 23:34:39 patrique County: Antrim Posts: 2331 223522 Very good points Corkcelt, but in Edinburgh Hibernian have a similar story, founded by the Irish for those Irish who ended up in that City. Why is there no support for them in Ireland? Does it lack the absence of a Rangers for a bit of spice and local rivalry. Someone posted about Tommy Gemmill. All very true, sure the same thing happened to Mo Johnson. Real Louth, have you ever been in Northern Ireland? Answer truthfully now. You see, take 100 Rangers men from Sandy Row, at home or at Ibrox, British to a man. Put them in a Spanish holiday resort with 100 English football supporters, Irish to a man. Oh, by the way, I hate ALL nationalists, including Mrs T and Hitler. And I do not purport to understand my unionist neighbours or even attempt to. I simply get on with genuine people. Falseness however in people does repel me. Yeah, there's that consistency again! Seriously though, based on your last sentence, how do you live with yourself?

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 03/03/2009 23:53:37    223537

Again how sad it is that we let certain people drag this into a Celtic V Rangers.

I said several times that we should commend rangers for this small gesture. But you wouldn't leave it at that. You had to drag it off to another place. There are only a handful of posters here capable of keeping a thread on track and discussing matters sensibly. Ther are other sensationalists who would jump on any bandwagon if it meant they could promote themselves regardless of the topic.

And there are others who just simply don't understand! Sad really.

Real Louth fan (Louth) - Posts: 3157 - 03/03/2009 23:57:33    223540

patrique interesting post, as you can imagine I am fully aware that Hibernian were the first Irish Club founded in Scotland and were indeed very helpful in the setting up of Celtic. They have Hearts who are every bit as racist as Rangers to keep them occupied but you are correct, the sense of Irishness has not survived to any great extent. I was in Parkhead for the last Celtic/Hibs game and there were a number of tri-colours amongst the Hibs fans. However I suspect that they were there more to tease the Celtic fans rather then as an expression of there Irishness. I was disappointed to see you express a hatred of Nationalists, hatred is a strong word. I am not trying to be holier then thou but I can honestly say I do not or never have hated anyone in my life and that includes Rangers supporters. I would consider myself a Republican and a Nationalist so you can hate me twice if you like. The closest anybody has come to provoking a feeling of intense dislike within me has been George Bush and Nacho Novo and latterly Frank Murphy.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 03/03/2009 23:57:48    223541

From a rangers site:

You've GAA't to be kidding?

Tuesday, 03 March 2009 13:05

News Update


According to sources close to the Rangers, the story yesterday that was jumped over by many, that Rangers are to be working in tandem with the GAA , has today been quashed as shabby journalism.

Further, the club will make it abundantly clear that there are no links between the club and the GAA and there have not even been any discussions held or will be held.

The club are said to be investigating the source of the story further.

monaghan_ultra (None) - Posts: 213 - 04/03/2009 00:16:24    223558

Just putting it out there, as Im sure you are well aware, that the real Sam Maguire was a Protestant...

And Fair play to him!

A_Border_Bandit (Monaghan) - Posts: 95 - 04/03/2009 00:20:07    223560