Don't agree with the argument that Casement is in or near to a high crime area , plenty of other grounds , including Croke Park are near similar areas. It does have good access via the M1 and close to Belfast city centre and the bus & railway stations if anyone wanted to use public transport to get to Belfast. Omagh may have been a good option for a game in Ulster as it has lights and is centrally located as far as Ulster is concerned.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 24/02/2009 14:34:31    216918

stranmillis29
County: Antrim
Posts: 12

216875 Cant get access to Irsish news and not paying £3 for 1day subscription fee so can someone please summarise (in point form) how casement pk is outdated. in my opinion its a great venue and for big matches too

remember watching derry-down ulster semifinal there few yrs back it was a scorching day. great game too reported to be 35000 at it which is comparable with Clones capacity.

Plus its location is great - right beside the M1 Clones is a pure bottle neck!
______________________________

First of all i a have not seen Paddy Heaney's artical, i was refering to an interview with the Antrim chairman that was in last weeks papers. He said the stand was practically useless in this day and age, wanted it replaced with a covered stand the full length of that side. Think he said that stand was done in the 50's or 60's and it was time it was completely flattened and built from scratch. He said he would love to see big games returned to Casement such as the ulster final, but he said currently the ground is not good enough.

Casements capacity is roughly 31000 about 4-5000 seats. Clones is about 37000, about half of which is seated.

Right beside M1, no parking, accident on M1 caused tailbacks to Lisburn the last game i was at in Casement. Got in at halftime after sitting for the best part of 2 hours.

I was not taking issue with the International rules being in Casement, my arguement was with this stupid notion that the Ulster final is held in Clones for tax reasons.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 24/02/2009 14:56:45    216945

The staging of the ulster final is a side issue, at the minute anyway!

The main crux of Heaney's argument was that the GAA in belfast, as im sure you all know, is struggling for different reasons and would surely have benefitted by staging such a high profile game in belfast. However, his main observance was the lack of interest at primary school level and the sparsity of clubs in different parts of Belfast.The GAA is almost non-existent in east belfast with 1 club, Sean Martins, which I'm not sure exists and if it does only at juvenile level.There are 2 clubs in south belfast, one struggling, St Malachy's the other a recently formed high profile club, St Brigids, with sound financial backing. North Belfast has Ardoyne doing alright and Pearses, competing at juvenile level. West Belfast, on the other hand has maybe 12 to 15 clubs with 2 or 3, including my own club, also struggling. Im sure Padraig will correct me with my numbers if needs be!!

In reply to our brethern from the orange county show me a city in ireland where opportunist car thieves do not congregate. Maybe the solution is to arrive in your Massey Ferguson!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/02/2009 15:01:35    216951

dubupnorth - this doesn't come up as often as Dublin v the culchies, but there is the same antipathy towards Belfast in the north. There are as many pubs handy to Casement as there are to Croker, there is as much/as little crime etc.
And Real Louth Fan - the whole thing over VAT was an argument made against using Casement among the Ulster Council around 15 years ago (arguing against playing big games at Casement). There was a lot of grief over it as the non-delegate voting members were from Monaghan and Cavan and their votes swung the decision. Prior to that the 'troubles' was the main excuse for not playing finals at Casement, in the mid-1990s when it was no longer valid, the VAT argument was used.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 24/02/2009 15:03:35    216954

The Antrim board need to start with the bias in the Ulster Council first. There is big antipathy and negativity to Casement and Belfast from many Ulster counties AND fans on here. Some of our country cousins have a big chip on their shoulder about Belfast. However it's not all one way I agree. Many within the city need to be doing more towards promoting the GAA and welcoming people to Casement. I blame all those farmer students in the Holyland for annoying city folk so much.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 24/02/2009 15:06:59    216957

Dubupnorth,

I think Nicky Brennan was looking at the potential of having the game in Belfast to try and generate a bit of interest among the kids that currently wear soccer tops and would rather watch skysports. He obviously is aware that the rest of Ulster seems to be on a high and kids are flocking to the games, well football clubs anyway!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/02/2009 15:08:35    216959

in all fairness The AFL have a big say in the venue's as well. casement dont have the facilities to manage an international match. gaelic grounds in limerick did simple as that. Plus it will be nice for the gaelic gorunds to e full for the firist time in its short history

paddyogall (Mayo) - Posts: 5110 - 24/02/2009 15:19:35    216970

Bumpernut, in answer to your question, Armagh city....

sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1073 - 24/02/2009 15:24:05    216974

Bumpernut - there are 23 clubs in Belfast (if you still count Na Fuiseoge). Technically Sean Martins are a Down club (south side of the Lagan). Primary level organisation of gaelic games is a universe away from what it was even 10 years ago (never mind 20 years ago). The problem in Belfast is keeping kids to come through at minor, U21 and senior level. Involvement at younger juvenile grades isn't a huge problem. East and South Belfast are predominantly Protestant and there isn't much interest in the GAA in those areas anyway. I can't comment much on problems in West Belfast.
St Endas are also North Belfast club as well (all their players are from North Belfast and Glengormley - even if they do try and hurl in North Antrim and play underage football in SW Antrim). Pearses are fielding adult teams in South Antrim leagues etc again (and are even current Ulster Trath na gCeist champions). The problem the North Belfast clubs face are widely appreciated. Mainly it is down to resources. There isn't a single GAA pitch fit for adult games in North Belfast, other than Hightown Road (St Enda's ground). There has been a long battle with the planners over the Crickey and the powers that be over Girdwood (formerly part of St Malachys College). Given the peculiar geography of North Belfast, most 'nationalist' areas contain practically no green space, the available grounds would be in areas that wouldn't be well to disposed towards either gaelic games, or their practitioners.
In this context, the GAA could have helped throw the spotlight on these sort of issues by playing the game in Belfast. I doubt many of the posters would be familiar with these problems (particularly the Ulster posters who should be aware of a lot of this). Arguably if the GAA is disregarding Belfast, why should anyone else pay much attention?? Its another missed opportunity.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 24/02/2009 15:29:49    216987

Good one ulsterman, I take it youve been to renshaws then and experienced it first hand!! the holylands are liek the wild west from september to june every year

stranmillis29 (Antrim) - Posts: 788 - 24/02/2009 15:30:22    216988

pearseabu

I would say if you did a bit of research you would find that West Belfast crime rate would be well above average to other large cities. I have a mate lives near Clonard, house broke into twice, 1 car stole and one wrecked when hoods danced on top of it and kicked windows and mirrors through. Another lives at Stockmans lane about 300 yards from Casement, house broke into twice, once taking his car keys from the bedside table whilst his pregnant girlfriend slept, she woke to see two men standing above her. All this in the space of about two or three years. Old people are getting robbed in their homes on nearly a daily basis in that area. Whilst i dont want to run the place down to much as there has been and still is so many good people around West Belfast the reality is it is not a safe place. There is no atmosphere about the place for Ulster championship games, nobody wants to go down early and have a few pints. The vast majority want to get down 10 minutes before the game and get out 10 minutes after. A few people have compared it to Dublin, big difference is around Croke Park there are normally good places to park, plenty of Stewarts and Gards around.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 24/02/2009 15:31:42    216990

In reply to our brethern from the orange county show me a city in ireland where opportunist car thieves do not congregate. Maybe the solution is to arrive in your Massey Ferguson!!

Armagh
Newry
Galway
etc etc

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 24/02/2009 15:33:04    216992

In reply to our brethern from the orange county show me a city in ireland where opportunist car thieves do not congregate. Maybe the solution is to arrive in your Massey Ferguson!!

________________________________
Show me an area (not a city) where so many cars are stole so often. Show me antwhere else a stretch of road a mile long where there is no fence left because of so many accidents caused by joyriders.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 24/02/2009 15:39:54    217002

All this about crime rates in Belfast , where did they plan to play the 2nd game again?? -)) You could say the same about Limerick as well. And before anyone says anything I know the Gaelic grounds is in one of the nicer parts of Limerick!!

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 24/02/2009 15:41:03    217005

Samin10 - West Belfast has never been regarded as a crime hotspot compared to other cities. For urban areas with similar levels of poverty, it has a minimal problems with heroin etc and car crime isn't any more significant than other big cities (and Newry, Armagh etc don't count - they are nowhere near comparable in size, only Dublin is of the same size in Ireland). There are s**mbags everywhere - there are some like 750,000 people live in the Belfast metropolitan area (look up reports like BMap if you don't believe me), thats more than 15-20 times the size of the likes of Newry or Armagh.

pearsesabu (Antrim) - Posts: 663 - 24/02/2009 15:48:25    217016

sam

Going by your standards Dublin, but especially Limerick, should never hold a sporting game of any nature. Both cities have high rates of crime, murder and shootings currently far exceeding Belfast. Your arguement about West Belfast is a hollow one, how many individuals attending games have actually suffered from an act of criminality? Very very few I would say with the myth rather than the reality being the perception and rule. The fact is that many Ulster Gaels just don't like anything about Belfast except the jobs. Belfast has been treated shamefully both by the Ulster Council and Croke Park as Paddy Heaney said so well in todays Irish News. Your views show that many have a chip on their shoulder about the city, the GAA is not just a rural organisation but many seem to think so. Casement should be turned into a showpiece stadium and the venue for Ulster semi-finals and finals as well as International Rules. It needs much more work I agree but the excuses being trotted out are just that, EXCUSES!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9838 - 24/02/2009 15:55:47    217022

Seems very strange that the GAA cannot be seen to be more active in promoting their venues and events in the bigger cities. This was certainly a chance to show the establishment up here what GAA can bring to the social and sporting calender of the north. I see it as a chance missed have they given any explanation why this is going to limerick.

derryman (Derry) - Posts: 3246 - 24/02/2009 16:06:26    217034

Lads, you keep bringing up the same thing. Cities comparable in size. I dont care, the stadium is in one little corner of Belfast, Croke Park is the same in Dublin as is the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick, nor do i care about the heroin situation in the rough parts of Dublin it has sweet FA to do with going to watch a match in Croke Park. I am talking plain and simple about car theft and breakins in that area around Casement park. I am not talking about Belfast as a whole because i do not go to Casement Park in Ardoyne or Malone or the city center. Its the area lads that is relevant not the city itself. I have a good few friends from Lenadoon who are good lads, went to up to stay for a nightout, pulled up on front street and parked up on kerb. He asked me was i wise, sayed to get it into drive way and gates locked behind it. End of the day it is the area and not the city itself thats important.

samin10 (Armagh) - Posts: 2434 - 24/02/2009 16:11:28    217043

samin,

So maybe your mates are doing something they shouldn't!! Funnily enough I've lived in west belfast nearly 40 years(worrying I know that Im replying to people with the IQ of a box of eggs!) not once has my house been broken into, never had a car stolen or wrecked. In fact I can expand that to almost all of my immediate and not so immediate relatives.
So, tell me your point is what?? theres no burglars or muggers or hoods in lurgan/portadown/craigavon!!

This is all irrelevant by the way, my question was about the compromise rules not about you or your alter ego's issues with the people from west belfast.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/02/2009 16:40:13    217079

'I would say if you did a bit of research you would find that West Belfast crime rate would be well above average to other large cities. I have a mate lives near Clonard, house broke into twice, 1 car stole and one wrecked when hoods danced on top of it and kicked windows and mirrors through. Another lives at Stockmans lane about 300 yards from Casement, house broke into twice, once taking his car keys from the bedside table whilst his pregnant girlfriend slept, she woke to see two men standing above her. All this in the space of about two or three years. Old people are getting robbed in their homes on nearly a daily basis in that area.


Whilst i dont want to run the place down to much as there has been and still is so many good people around West Belfast the reality is it is not a safe place.'



Have a read of your first part of this post again genius!! I'll leave it to everyone else to make up their own minds about who has an agenda and who doesnt!!!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 24/02/2009 16:48:10    217090