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There's a county championship that has 8 teams in a group. After 2 home games and 2 away games - the top 2 go direct to semi finals, 3rd to 6th in quarter finals and 7th-8th in relegation final. This would suit if the lower tiers were restructured as 3 tiers of 8. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9906 - 27/06/2026 09:14:06 2682171 Link 0 |
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Relegation? Are the other 10 to play in the AI? Who'll bother in the Provincial round Robins? Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 693 - 27/06/2026 09:33:02 2682174 Link 0 |
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I thought we are talking hurling. My apologies. I agree that the TC is unbalanced and thus unfair atm. The luck of the draw is too big a thing.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 644 - 27/06/2026 11:21:21 2682182 Link 0 |
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Croke Park have to be practical here as do the participating county boards. If the tiered finals were on in late July it may harm hurling in those counties rather than help them. Especially the lower down the pyramid you go. Im not aware of any complaints from those counties either. In an ideal world yes I agree but I think pragmatism must prevail.
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 644 - 27/06/2026 11:24:33 2682183 Link 0 |
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The players aren't machines. While its somewhat palatable in theory its just fanciful in reality. You are talking about way too many games there. The players would break down its happening in football and they dont have a round robin provincial championship. I also dont think the public interest would be there for many of the potential games The attendances in Leinster would indicate that. Some of the teams just aren't good enough to draw a crowd. Their fans aren't mugs either. They know that. Ive gone to Mullingar for league games in recent past. We have outnumbered WM fans 3 or 4 tto one each time. Thats the reality. Hurling for hurling sake doesnt help anything. Its the AI championship. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 644 - 27/06/2026 11:32:13 2682185 Link 0 |
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Come on. Its the Munster and AI championship you are talking about not some pub tournament Treat it with respect. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 644 - 27/06/2026 11:34:12 2682186 Link 0 |
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Relegation from the Liam McCarthy to Joe Mac. Bottom teams in each group play off. I posted a fuller version around a month ago. Teams wanting to win a Provincial title will bother trying to win one. At this stage all the counties would value one, even Kilkenny. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 11:44:16 2682187 Link 0 |
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No i dont understand tbh. For a start id question whether they did make similar sacrifices and work just as hard. I don't doubt that their commitment is admirable but their inferior skill and fitness levels compared to their McCarthy counterparts would indicate that they don't work just as hard. And as much as im sure they value their medal,im pretty sure they'd swap it for an all ireland medal if given the chance. Do you honestly believe otherwise? Its crazy to think that if Henry Shefflin was born a few miles down the road in Laois or wherever that a Joe McDonagh medal would have been the pinnacle of his career. Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 13:16:47 2682198 Link 0 |
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Think you are very wrong there. There are some top hurlers in Joe Mac counties. And top hurling clubs as good as or better than most clubs in Liam McCarthy counties. What makes the biggest difference is that the Liam McCarthy counties have more top clubs producing more top hurlers. Its not that Liam McCarthy counties train harder, or more often. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 17:05:43 2682215 Link 0 |
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When did i ever say that there are no top hurlers or clubs in Joe McDonagh counties?
Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 17:59:12 2682227 Link 0 |
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"I don't doubt that their commitment is admirable but their inferior skill and fitness levels compared to their McCarthy counterparts would indicate that they don't work just as hard." This is what you said- inferior skill?!!! And they dont work as hard?!!! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 18:27:16 2682230 Link 1 |
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On the whole yes,Joe McDonagh teams are inferior to their al ireland counterparts, i know thats not the appropriate way to word it these days,but its true. I have no doubt that there are fabulous hurlers and clubs in these counties. In fact I said in the previous page that my main argument in favour of a transfer system is that so many talented hurlers are prohibited from playing at the highest level because theyre born in the wrong county. Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 18:45:54 2682233 Link 0 |
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Can I ask,do you believe that all Liam McCarthy teams work equally hard? Do you think for example that wexford could physically match Limerick or Cork over a full game?
Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 19:01:17 2682238 Link 0 |
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Not right now, individually they are further along in their athletic development. Our starting teams average age is around 4 or 5 years younger than theirs. Thats not down to the Cork or Limerick lads working harder, moreso they've been working longer. Ourselves and Offaly are very young compared to the other Liam McCarthy teams.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 19:17:25 2682243 Link 0 |
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The Joe Mac teams are inferior because they have a smaller pick. Not because all their hurlers are "less skilled" or "dont work as hard".
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 19:19:15 2682244 Link 0 |
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So success is directly proportional to the size of a teams pick, and nothing to do with skill and application?
Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 19:42:16 2682248 Link 0 |
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If you have a bigger pick you will generally have more skilful players, just by law of averages. And likewise you will have more skilful players who work really hard, which is a different type of player to a skilful one, or one that just works hard. A rarer player. Same with clubs, with the odd exception that proves the rule. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 20:01:41 2682251 Link 0 |
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Forgive my slowness today but im not fully following. Are you arguing that Joe Mc teams ARE just as skilfull and hardworking as their Liam Mc counterparts,,,or are you agreeing with me that theyre not,but that the size of their pick is the reason? Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 85 - 27/06/2026 21:21:40 2682280 Link 0 |
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Im saying the reason they arent as successful, and are in the Joe Mac rather than the Liam McCarthy, is because they have a smaller pick of hurlers overall, and therefore generally a smaller pick of exceptional hurlers. Probably all the Joe Mac teams have some players who would likely make most of the Liam McCarthy teams, they just dont have enough of them at the same time for the team to be competitive in the Liam McCarthy. For example Kildare just got relegated. In near enough all their games they were competitive in the first half. But because they have a smaller pick, and then had a couple of injuries, there was quite a big difference in standard between their top ten lads, then the next 5, and then a bigger drop in ability/athletic development to their next 5. So when it got to the 40 minute mark when teams start bringing on subs, their team got weaker relative to their opponents. And thats a large part of the reason they will be playing in the Joe Mac next year. Lads like Simon Leacy and Cian Boran would probably be good enough to start for most of the Liam McCarthy teams. You were arguing that their players werent as skilful or hardworking, which I think is a pretty insulting generalisation not backed up by anything Ive seen or noticed in many years watching games of hurling. Now you are trying to shift the goalposts slightly by saying the teams arent as skilful or hardworking..... Just to remind you what you said, because you seem to have forgotten- "For a start id question whether they did make similar sacrifices and work just as hard. I don't doubt that their commitment is admirable but their inferior skill and fitness levels compared to their McCarthy counterparts would indicate that they don't work just as hard." That in answer to a knowledgeable poster that said a PLAYER at that or any other level would value what he might win just the same, and work just as hard to achieve. To remind you what he posted that you replied to with that condescending nonsense in quotations above- "For gods sake, they dont have a McCarthy medal. They won the all ireland that they could and they value it accordingly. Its the pinnacle of their career. They were never going to win a McCarthy and knew that from day one in an intercounty set up. Therefore they value it in the same way as someone values a McCarthy medal that actually won one. Why? Because it is their All Ireland and they worked just as hard and made similar sacrifices to achieve their medal. Do you understand now? On the other matter, thankfully it doesnt really matter what you believe or i for that matter. Its not allowed and I agree with that." Hope that clears it up for you Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20133 - 27/06/2026 23:09:41 2682314 Link 0 |
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I'd argue they work just as hard but don't have the same opportunity to develop. Fewer games and they're against weak opposition. Phil Mickelson often said he wouldn't have been half the player he was if not for trying to keep up with tiger. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4585 - 27/06/2026 23:51:21 2682323 Link 0 |