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16 Team Hurling Championship

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "The reality of Hurling is that too much time and money is wasted at senior level

It should have 2 competitions - McCarthy and McDonagh. Everyone else should save their budgets and put it into growing club participation in their counties. Only by increasing participation will counties rise to the top levels.

Every weaker hurling county should be copying the Dublin model in their urban areas - you want to play football? You do hurling too.

Rural ireland is goosed - so developing hurling in urban areas is the only viable future.

Forget paying for coaches and nutrition and mileage to 25+ year old men so they can play in the mickey mouse cup in front of their wifes/girlfriends.

Pay for some top quality coaches to go into schools in urban areas and teach kids the game there instead."
The GAA in general aren't doing enough to develop GAA in urban areas. It is left to the country clubs that these urban areas grow into. Some embrace it and grow quickly. Others dont and struggle to gain a foothold in the new area. Ballygunner is a good example of a club that embraced it and grew into a massive entity in its own right because of it.
An example of a club that struggles with it ( albeit Gaelic Football) is Clann Na Gael in Roscommon. They have the whole west side of Athlone town and are not gaining any noticeable bounce from that growth in population. You ask people from the traditional families and they say they cant get them to buy in/ engage but if you ask parents etc from the town part they say there are plenty engaging but not enough being done to keep them. Their rivals St Brigids have experienced a population surge aswell but its not town based as in housing estates within town. They are having far more success at all levels and both sexes. Roscommon Hurling really should have and still can start a hurling club there. There is a huge population from all over to tap into. Ive been told its by far the most populated town in Roscommon and no club of their own.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 438 - 07/05/2026 19:23:19    2671504

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "You're actually not too far off a couple of things that were already proposed but which were roundly shot down.

First, the proposal that counties with five or fewer hurling clubs would be removed from the National League, with that time given to club action in those counties instead. After all, if you're taking probably 25 or more men from as few as two or four clubs to form a county panel, the clubs don't have enough players left to play matches between themselves during that time. The county standard players would still get to hurl; the other club players would have matches too; and the hope was that new hurling teams would be formed if competitions could be run at that time of year, when club football wasn't making too many demands.

Second, the "Liam Griffin Motion" that went to Congress twice, seeking to make every club provide at least Go Games hurling for every player up to the age of 10, with just a few types of exceptions allowed (i.e. if there was a genuine demographics issue, or if there was already a separate hurling club serving that area).

I've said it before a few times in this context - it's like how you can take a horse to water, but can't make him drink. Croke Park or the stronger counties or anyone else could try move every mountain going and throw every resource possible at the counties where hurling is currently just a minority sport, but unless there's a genuine will within those counties to actually develop hurling, then it's just never going to happen."
It makes a lot of sense for those counties who have a handful of hurling teams to at least for a time to remove themselves from intercounty competitions and concentrate on building up more clubs underage and numbers participatng. Also have to question if that county really cares about hurling at all ultimately the interest might not be there.

I know there are some Carlow teams play in Kilkenny and Naas underage in Kilkenny and Dublin for the Joe McDonagh counties one way to up the standards is if they could be adopted by one of the main counties playing U12 U14 , availing of top coaching even particpate at intermediate so could have Kildare with Dublin, Laois with Tipperary, Carlow with Kilkenny and Galway and Westmeath how does that sound?

HupLuimneach (Limerick) - Posts: 3 - 07/05/2026 20:44:59    2671508

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Replying To HupLuimneach:  "It makes a lot of sense for those counties who have a handful of hurling teams to at least for a time to remove themselves from intercounty competitions and concentrate on building up more clubs underage and numbers participatng. Also have to question if that county really cares about hurling at all ultimately the interest might not be there.

I know there are some Carlow teams play in Kilkenny and Naas underage in Kilkenny and Dublin for the Joe McDonagh counties one way to up the standards is if they could be adopted by one of the main counties playing U12 U14 , availing of top coaching even particpate at intermediate so could have Kildare with Dublin, Laois with Tipperary, Carlow with Kilkenny and Galway and Westmeath how does that sound?"
I dont know why posters here, who generally aren't from the counties they comment on, keep trying to kill off their All Ireland Competitions on their behalf. The Meagher, Rackard, Ring cups are important to these counties and their hurling communities. I get that the other hurlers may not be playing as much as they would like but the county team is important to those same communities. Its their McCarthy Cup. Its the only all ireland that they can win and they want to play in Croke Park and win there. That shouldn't be underestimated. The Mayo Man who made the suggestion first , id like to know if he's involved in hurling in Mayo because, in my experience, mayo hurling people take their hurling seriously and that especially includes the County teams.
On the stronger counties helping out the weaker ones by letting them play in their competitions, that has been covered before perhaps on another thread. Most strong counties will allow the weaker counties clubs play in their leagues but almost all make them travel for every game. Add in the fixture issues and many clubs find the whole thing prohibitive. The clubs have no say in the other counties fixtures and their own county board have no interest in accommodating those fixtures so local football often clashes with hurling in the other county. If they give 2 walkover they are kicked out and struggle to get back in. This is a very complicated issue.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 438 - 07/05/2026 22:36:20    2671520

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@tadhg2020 - just to be clear - I'm not suggesting that any county should be made withdraw from the Meagher/Ring/Rackard Cups, or that any of those competitions should be disbanded.

Just that maybe the other idea was worth more consideration than it got, of certain counties withdrawing from the League in order to concentrate on club hurling during that time instead. Would allow more players to play more games, and give all players a chance to impress for selection for the upcoming Meagher/Ring/Rackard Cup. Those competitions themselves would still be hugely important.

You're correct on the complications of the idea that a stronger county would "adopt" a weaker county. It's one of those things that's a lovely idea in theory, but difficult to operate in practice.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 08/05/2026 15:02:02    2671645

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Promising results from Offaly and Kildare last weekend. Carlow Down Laois Westmeath and Antrim would also be able to get exposure with a 16 team championship this year.


Preliminary quarter-finals
Clare v Kildare
Tipperary v Wexford
Kilkenny v Waterford
Carlow v Offaly
(Cork Limerick Galway Dublin byes)


Joe McDonagh Cup
Westmeath
Down
Laois
Antrim

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 74 - 13/05/2026 17:48:32    2672837

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Replying To GaA247:  "Promising results from Offaly and Kildare last weekend. Carlow Down Laois Westmeath and Antrim would also be able to get exposure with a 16 team championship this year.


Preliminary quarter-finals
Clare v Kildare
Tipperary v Wexford
Kilkenny v Waterford
Carlow v Offaly
(Cork Limerick Galway Dublin byes)


Joe McDonagh Cup
Westmeath
Down
Laois
Antrim"
I just have to ask.

How do you make a 16-team top tier hurling championship there?

You've only got 12 teams listed preliminary quarter-finals and quarter-finals. Four more in a Joe McDonagh Cup that would apparently still remain in place.

If your answer is going to be along the lines of how they'd play group stages first with top 12 going to the Liam McCarthy and bottom four going to the Joe McDonagh, then to my mind, you're effectively downgrading the Joe McDonagh.

It'd be more a punishment and relegation for the same year "because you're just not good enough", rather than providing a promotion opportunity for the following year on the grounds that "you're best one here, and good enough now to take your place in the top tier".

And no great incentive to win the McDonagh in those circumstances either. The other three teams there would be right back with you in Tier 1 at the start of the following year anyway.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 15/05/2026 00:42:05    2673079

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I just have to ask.

How do you make a 16-team top tier hurling championship there?

You've only got 12 teams listed preliminary quarter-finals and quarter-finals. Four more in a Joe McDonagh Cup that would apparently still remain in place.

If your answer is going to be along the lines of how they'd play group stages first with top 12 going to the Liam McCarthy and bottom four going to the Joe McDonagh, then to my mind, you're effectively downgrading the Joe McDonagh.

It'd be more a punishment and relegation for the same year "because you're just not good enough", rather than providing a promotion opportunity for the following year on the grounds that "you're best one here, and good enough now to take your place in the top tier".

And no great incentive to win the McDonagh in those circumstances either. The other three teams there would be right back with you in Tier 1 at the start of the following year anyway."
If u look at the first post, the format is explained. Thats how I got the 12-4 split.

But you have good points in terms of the McDonagh integrity. But if that is the thinking, then how does it not translate in football where the tailteann cup is thriving? Also it is a clean format to determine relegation into the Ring Cup.

It may be hard to sell it but maybe the mcdonagh winners are seeded and are at home in the following all Ireland round 1 game? Have u any other ideas?

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 74 - 15/05/2026 11:59:09    2673136

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Replying To GaA247:  "If u look at the first post, the format is explained. Thats how I got the 12-4 split.

But you have good points in terms of the McDonagh integrity. But if that is the thinking, then how does it not translate in football where the tailteann cup is thriving? Also it is a clean format to determine relegation into the Ring Cup.

It may be hard to sell it but maybe the mcdonagh winners are seeded and are at home in the following all Ireland round 1 game? Have u any other ideas?"
Sorry, didn't track this one back to the very opening post of this thread. Was late at night!

But I'd still feel the same about the McDonagh Cup, and thanks for acknowledging them as good points.

Difference with the Tailteann Cup is that Tailteann winners get something that the other Tailteann teams don't get - i.e. a guaranteed spot in the top tier the following year. But in your system, McDonagh Cup winners of this year would be joined back in Tier 1 next year by other McDonagh Cup teams of this year anyway. So there wouldn't be the same level of reward for winning it as there would be for winning Tailteann Cup.

I don't really have other ideas, or not realistic ones anyway. But I just don't think a competitive 16-team championship is a runner. If we were starting from a completely blank slate, I'd suggest two groups of six, but across provincial borders rather than Munster/Leinster (or Munster/Rest of Ireland, if you want to look at it that way). Next six in the McDonagh Cup, and maybe with two up and two down each year. But that'd bring the end of the Munster Senior Hurling Championship, and realistically, that's just not a runner either.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 15/05/2026 12:35:52    2673143

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Sorry, didn't track this one back to the very opening post of this thread. Was late at night!

But I'd still feel the same about the McDonagh Cup, and thanks for acknowledging them as good points.

Difference with the Tailteann Cup is that Tailteann winners get something that the other Tailteann teams don't get - i.e. a guaranteed spot in the top tier the following year. But in your system, McDonagh Cup winners of this year would be joined back in Tier 1 next year by other McDonagh Cup teams of this year anyway. So there wouldn't be the same level of reward for winning it as there would be for winning Tailteann Cup.

I don't really have other ideas, or not realistic ones anyway. But I just don't think a competitive 16-team championship is a runner. If we were starting from a completely blank slate, I'd suggest two groups of six, but across provincial borders rather than Munster/Leinster (or Munster/Rest of Ireland, if you want to look at it that way). Next six in the McDonagh Cup, and maybe with two up and two down each year. But that'd bring the end of the Munster Senior Hurling Championship, and realistically, that's just not a runner either."
The 2 groups of 6 were dead boring when the league used that format a few years ago. Hopefully in a championship setting that might change but even if it does it would only give one extra tier 2 team a spot at the top table. It is tough trying to balance competitiveness with room for development in terms of a tier 1 hurling championship

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 74 - 15/05/2026 16:13:52    2673191

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Don't know what the best way to work it is but could have a 12/14/16-team Championship that is divided into two sub-tiers

Tier 1 would consist of the reigining All-Ireland winner, the reigning Division 1A winner, the Leinster winner, the Munster winner, the winner of Tier 2 from the previous year, and then winner of 1A and if it were to be 6 teams, could add the two highest teams from the league who are not already qualified if you want to have an 8-team Tier 1

12 teams would be two groups of 6 (Could be mixed or could be Tier 1 & Tier 2)
14 teams would be a Tier 1 of 6 or 8 and then a Tier 2 of either 8 or 6
16 teams would be a Tier 1 of 8 and then a Tier 2 of 8

6 teams in a tier would probably mean one group of 6 whereas 8 in a tier would mean two groups of 4

If you had a tiered structure, could have the top two teams from Tier 1 go straight to the AISFs, 3rd and 4th from Tier 1 would play each other in the AIQFs, and then the top two from Tier 2 would play each other in the other AIQF

Only the teams in the 12/14/16-team Championship could play in the provincials

IMO, it would incentivise winning your division in the league and the provincials because they would guarantee you Tier 1

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1306 - 18/05/2026 18:24:50    2673984

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Sorry, didn't track this one back to the very opening post of this thread. Was late at night!

But I'd still feel the same about the McDonagh Cup, and thanks for acknowledging them as good points.

Difference with the Tailteann Cup is that Tailteann winners get something that the other Tailteann teams don't get - i.e. a guaranteed spot in the top tier the following year. But in your system, McDonagh Cup winners of this year would be joined back in Tier 1 next year by other McDonagh Cup teams of this year anyway. So there wouldn't be the same level of reward for winning it as there would be for winning Tailteann Cup.

I don't really have other ideas, or not realistic ones anyway. But I just don't think a competitive 16-team championship is a runner. If we were starting from a completely blank slate, I'd suggest two groups of six, but across provincial borders rather than Munster/Leinster (or Munster/Rest of Ireland, if you want to look at it that way). Next six in the McDonagh Cup, and maybe with two up and two down each year. But that'd bring the end of the Munster Senior Hurling Championship, and realistically, that's just not a runner either."
Could go back to playing Munster, Ulster and Leinster as straight knockout, with any Leinster counties that want to compete in Leinster in it, preferably not more than 8, but workable just about even if there is more. And Kerry in Munster, again if they want to enter. Provincials not linked to the AI series at all after year one.
Then a 12 team AI in 2 round robin groups of 6, at which stage Galway and the Ulster winners are added to the other 10 existing Liam McCarthy counties for year one, top 2 in each group to AISFs, bottom in each group to a relegation final. 6 team Joe Mac, top 1 into the final, 2nd play 3rd in a SF. Winner of the final promoted. And so on down through the tiers. Reduce the League to 6 teams per division, with top of each division the division winners and no finals, and 2 up, 2 down. So the League could be played off over 5 weekends to leave time for the knockout Provincials.
If Leinster had 8 counties in it, say Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin, Offaly, Kildare, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath, it would only take 3 weekends to run off. Munster the same with 5 or 6 counties. Ulster probably only 2 weekends with 3 or 4 teams.
And the whole lot should fit into the existing IC window, with break weeks included also. We would still have our Munster, Leinster and Ulster Championships, and a meaningful AI series that John Mullane and Galway men would be happy with.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19771 - 18/05/2026 19:35:39    2674000

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I would not be sure about 16 teams in any way whatsoever but it is disgraceful that we have less teams in the All Ireland Championship than we did in the initial year of tiers 2005 (12 teams).

How the GAA can say with a straight face that that is progress for the smaller counties I don't know.

At least it might grow back to 12 teams soon if NY can get promoted to the All Ireland and are allowed to compete in it

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 166 - 18/05/2026 20:05:36    2674004

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "I dont know why posters here, who generally aren't from the counties they comment on, keep trying to kill off their All Ireland Competitions on their behalf. The Meagher, Rackard, Ring cups are important to these counties and their hurling communities. I get that the other hurlers may not be playing as much as they would like but the county team is important to those same communities. Its their McCarthy Cup. Its the only all ireland that they can win and they want to play in Croke Park and win there. That shouldn't be underestimated. The Mayo Man who made the suggestion first , id like to know if he's involved in hurling in Mayo because, in my experience, mayo hurling people take their hurling seriously and that especially includes the County teams.
On the stronger counties helping out the weaker ones by letting them play in their competitions, that has been covered before perhaps on another thread. Most strong counties will allow the weaker counties clubs play in their leagues but almost all make them travel for every game. Add in the fixture issues and many clubs find the whole thing prohibitive. The clubs have no say in the other counties fixtures and their own county board have no interest in accommodating those fixtures so local football often clashes with hurling in the other county. If they give 2 walkover they are kicked out and struggle to get back in. This is a very complicated issue."
Just to set your mind at ease.
There was no hurling club where I grew up and there never will be. They can barely field a football club at senior and are amalgamated at Junior. No one in the place has any expertise at hurling at all.

My kids are growing up in a large urban area, playing hurling and camogie.
There is a struggle to get coaches as those of us that coach other sports we have played, have no expertise in the sport at all.
The only way to get volunteers into coaching the sport is to coach them (for free and not just a once off) so they can develop players all through their teenage years. That cannot be funded without a budget from somewhere.

While there are 30-40 lads who take their senior hurling seriously, GAA funding is actually being used to subsidise their hobby. Only their families turn up to watch them so the gate receipts don't cover their expenses.

The fact is, you have to start developing an actual love of the game in urban areas or its dead

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1830 - 19/05/2026 11:29:37    2674085

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16 Team Liam McCarthy

Group A - 3 to progress
Limerick
Cork
Tipperary
Kilkenny

Group B1 - 2 to progress
Galway
Offaly
Clare
Kildare

Group B2 - 2 to progress
Waterford
Dublin
Wexford
Antrim

Group C - 1 to progress
Carlow
Down
Laois
Kerry

Christy Ring

Group A - 3 to progress
Westmeath
Meath
London
New York

Group B1 - 2 to progress
Wicklow
Armagh
Roscommon
Derry

Group B2 - 2 to progress
Tyrone
Louth
Donegal
Mayo

Group C - winner to play off
Sligo
Longford
Leitrim
Fermanagh

Group D - winner to play off
Warwickshire
Monaghan
Lancashire
Cavan

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1830 - 19/05/2026 15:41:23    2674176

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After the Ring group stage, I'm still of the opinion that the Joe Mac Tier 2 should have more than 6 teams. Seems to be no appetite amongst lower tier counties for change. Sin é.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9746 - 19/05/2026 18:36:33    2674218

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@tirawleybaron - correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the whole idea of people looking for a way to have a 16-team All-Ireland (Liam McCarthy) Hurling Championship was in order to give Tier 2 teams more matches against opposition of higher standard, to set a bar for them to work towards.

But under your proposal, you have Carlow, Down, Laois and Kerry all together one group, with just one to progress to a match where they could quite likely face a tanking. Little or no benefit for that Tier 2 team there, and no benefit at all for the other three, who still don't get to play other opposition at all.

In essence, your idea isn't far removed from what we've just gone away from, where Joe McDonagh Cup winners would come into the Liam McCarthy Cup, for just one match (in all bar that one famous case where Laois beat Dublin in 2019), and more often than not for a heavy defeat.

Going back to it would hardly be progress.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 22/05/2026 14:14:46    2674641

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