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Great player for club and county. A few unfair comments on this thread. Best 10 of all time is purely subjective, just because he might not be one of someone's best 10 doesn't mean he shouldn't be on other people's list.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17098 - 24/09/2025 11:22:15
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "Assume you'll say the same about Lee Chin when he retires???? btw, Lee chin is a hurling great also" I would imagine so. Difference being, hurling for 17 years in such a huge hurling county like Cork with so many All Irelands and tradition thru the last century and with their level of expectation due to this- it would indicate failure.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 898 - 24/09/2025 12:37:34
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Replying To countyman2022: "I would imagine so. Difference being, hurling for 17 years in such a huge hurling county like Cork with so many All Irelands and tradition thru the last century and with their level of expectation due to this- it would indicate failure." A failure of Cork hurling as a whole, not of one player, especially one who delivered regular top class performances for them in that time.
Not to drag poor TJ into this again, but he's the main link between the Kilkenny golden era and their more recent barren 10 years, which is a long stretch for a county with the tradition of Kilkenny.
He came into a team who were already winning All-Irelands and continued to do so for another few years. He was surrounded by the some of the greatest hurlers to ever play.
When that team broke up, they've gone 10 years without winning one, losing 4 finals in that time, not dissimilar to Horgan's record. Everyone knows that's not a reflection of TJ, but more the quality around him is not what it was.
If he had that same lower level of quality around him for the previous 8 years, it's arguable he'd have no All-Ireland medal either.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2551 - 24/09/2025 14:04:43
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Replying To countyman2022: "I would imagine so. Difference being, hurling for 17 years in such a huge hurling county like Cork with so many All Irelands and tradition thru the last century and with their level of expectation due to this- it would indicate failure." One man does not make a team, but you already know this. Look at TJ's haul since all the KK greats retired. No AI in 10 years.
bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 445 - 24/09/2025 14:33:30
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Replying To Viking66: "Great player for club and county. A few unfair comments on this thread. Best 10 of all time is purely subjective, just because he might not be one of someone's best 10 doesn't mean he shouldn't be on other people's list." It's not often I agree with you but I do this time ; )
bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 445 - 24/09/2025 14:37:08
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "The usual ole tripe from the yank. This fella was a wizard with magical wrists. He scored point from angles you wouldn't see anywhere. I watched him grow up down the Glen field, and you knew from the off he was going to be a star. I remember telling some friends about him when he was only 13 because that field was his second home, with him literally practicing morning, noon and night.
He definitely would make the greatest Cork team of all time, and I'm sure anyone watching him closely for club and county over the last 20 years would agree.
Enjoy your retirement Hoggie. One of the greatest..." Once again can't accept an objective evaluation. I'm not anti-Pat Horgan, just calling it as I saw it. I actually thought that he got better with age and that he played his best hurling over the past 4-5 years at inter-county level. Dunno about club. However, in the bigger scheme of things, I don't rate him as an all-time great. For example, I would rate Seamus Harnedy much higher than Horgan. I believe that many Cork fans would also. And you can compare the two of those hurlers as they played on the same team, both forwards, in the same era.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2380 - 24/09/2025 15:57:21
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Once again can't accept an objective evaluation. I'm not anti-Pat Horgan, just calling it as I saw it. I actually thought that he got better with age and that he played his best hurling over the past 4-5 years at inter-county level. Dunno about club. However, in the bigger scheme of things, I don't rate him as an all-time great. For example, I would rate Seamus Harnedy much higher than Horgan. I believe that many Cork fans would also. And you can compare the two of those hurlers as they played on the same team, both forwards, in the same era." I have been to 100 + Matched V Cork and I can tell you he was the darling of Cork Hurling made them tick much like Hegarty of Limerick or TJ Does in KK.
I know all the comments about getting what you deserve and all that but he truly deserves ab AI huge servant to Cork wondering why he is going looked as good as ever this year
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 1004 - 24/09/2025 16:14:18
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "The usual ole tripe from the yank. This fella was a wizard with magical wrists. He scored point from angles you wouldn't see anywhere. I watched him grow up down the Glen field, and you knew from the off he was going to be a star. I remember telling some friends about him when he was only 13 because that field was his second home, with him literally practicing morning, noon and night.
He definitely would make the greatest Cork team of all time, and I'm sure anyone watching him closely for club and county over the last 20 years would agree.
Enjoy your retirement Hoggie. One of the greatest..." Would you put Pat Horgan into a Cork forward line ahead of Ring, Ray Cummins, Jimmy Barry Murphy, Thomas Mulcahy, Tony O'Sullivan (HOTY), Ben O'Connor, Joe Deane, Brian Corcoran (albeit a better back), Seanie O'Leary, Seamus Harnedy, Charlie or Gerard McCarthy (albeit also a midfielder)?
Some might, but I would not. And I did not even go back to the great Cork teams of the 40's and 50's, except of course for Ring.
That is the type of question that you have to ask, when you mention great Cork forwards.
Whether you like it or not, Pat Horgan is not in my first 15.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2380 - 24/09/2025 16:20:14
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "One man does not make a team, but you already know this. Look at TJ's haul since all the KK greats retired. No AI in 10 years." In TJ defense..KK have been a very average team for the past ten years and have been underdogs in all 4 finals they lost. Patrick Hogan have a played on good Cork team and were favorite in all in the last 4 finals they lost.
Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 185 - 24/09/2025 16:23:07
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Replying To Newyorkkat: "In TJ defense..KK have been a very average team for the past ten years and have been underdogs in all 4 finals they lost. Patrick Hogan have a played on good Cork team and were favorite in all in the last 4 finals they lost." Were Cork favourites to beat Limerick in the 2021 final?
Jaysus.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6566 - 24/09/2025 17:45:20
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Replying To Newyorkkat: "In TJ defense..KK have been a very average team for the past ten years and have been underdogs in all 4 finals they lost. Patrick Hogan have a played on good Cork team and were favorite in all in the last 4 finals they lost." Cork definitely weren't favourites in the 2021 final against Limerick. Not sure where you're getting that from. I also don't recall Kilkenny being underdogs in 2016. They were going for 3-in-a-row.
Cork were very rarely the favourites for the All-Ireland at the start of the season, in any Pat Horgan's years playing for Cork. He played with nowhere near the calibre of players TJ had when he came into the Kilkenny team.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2551 - 24/09/2025 18:44:47
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I think to assess Patrick Horgan as a hurler, even within Cork hurling circles, you have to realise that he and the teams he played on faced different challenges than previous Cork legends like JBM, Kevin Hennessy, Tomas Mulcahy.
First off, in the pre-Horgan era, Cork rarely had to play Munster sides in Croke Park. After he joined the Cork setup, Cork lost 4 all Ireland finals and 2 semi finals to the 4 other Munster sides. 3 of the 4 semi finals that Cork won were against Kilkenny/Dublin and the 2024 semi final win over Limerick in Croker was a rare victory over a Munster side in Croker. Probably a Cork issue rather than a Horgan issue.
There was the Cork hurling strike in 2009. Whatever anyone's views on the strike, it impacted Cork hurling and they haven't landed the all Ireland since. That was a Cork issue rather than a Horgan issue.
Hurling changed over the course of Horgan's career with higher scores being recorded in games. This meant more scores in general, more frees and more of Patrick Horgan getting on the scoreboard. His rate of scoring meant that he always put himself in line for a starting place, but again, even within Cork circles I don't think he influenced big games in the way JBM, Hennessy, Mulcahy did. Possibly a Horgan issue more so than a Cork issue.
While his scoring rates were phenomenal, I don't think he had the ability to change the really big games (semi finals, finals) like previous Cork hurlers did. Thinking of the 1990 final for example, Cork went 8 points down to Galway but all of their forwards took responsibility for scoring resulting in 4 of their forwards finding the net. If you take away the frees from Horgan's scoring record, perhaps he was less likely to influence big games the further Cork went in the championship, which is a Horgan issue.
Horgan's all Ireland Finals scoring record:
2013 Draw (0-10, 0-8 frees)
2013 Replay (0-9, 0-7 frees)
2021 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2024 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2025 (0-4, 0-3 frees)
All in all, a class hurler, top class servant to Cork hurling, a role model and fiercely loyal to Cork. He was very unlucky not to have won a Celtic cross, but as Cork's main forward for the majority of his career he didn't influence all Ireland finals in the manner expected from a hurler hoping to be in any top 10 list.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6566 - 24/09/2025 19:56:38
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Can't help but see the similarities with Cillian O Connor here. Both top scorers of all time in Hurling and football but both failed to win that elusive All Ireland medal (both losing multiple finals) and unfortunately that will be held against them.
Best of luck to Horgan in his retirement, a fantastic hurler.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11776 - 24/09/2025 21:08:59
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Would you put Pat Horgan into a Cork forward line ahead of Ring, Ray Cummins, Jimmy Barry Murphy, Thomas Mulcahy, Tony O'Sullivan (HOTY), Ben O'Connor, Joe Deane, Brian Corcoran (albeit a better back), Seanie O'Leary, Seamus Harnedy, Charlie or Gerard McCarthy (albeit also a midfielder)?
Some might, but I would not. And I did not even go back to the great Cork teams of the 40's and 50's, except of course for Ring.
That is the type of question that you have to ask, when you mention great Cork forwards.
Whether you like it or not, Pat Horgan is not in my first 15." I would argue that you can't compare Ring, JBM, Deane and Horgan as they played in completely different eras where the game evolved in different ways. I would highly doubt any people here ever seen Ring playing and only a few would have seen JBM or Cummins playing.
When Ring was playing players were only starting to field the ball. It would have been ground hurling and pulling in the air. Fielding the ball only became a thing in the 50s and was started by Wexford. Horgan played in an era where it is all but professional but in name. The game is faster,the players are fitter and there's much higher scoring and expectations to score a lot more than in any of the names I mentioned above. Joe Deane scored 3 points in 99 final and was joint top scorer for cork that day. JBM best day in all Ireland he only scored 4 points.
I also wouldn't use winners medals as a benchmark either. As said by someone above you could be the best player in Ireland but on a poor team or be an average player and have 2 or 3 all Ireland medals in your pocket. I would say he did carry the mantle for cork for a long time during their most barren spell in their history and would put Callinan,Reid,Canning and Horgan in the top 5 of the past 15 years and definitely top 10 of the last 25 years.
camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 88 - 24/09/2025 21:34:41
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Replying To camánouttathat: "I would argue that you can't compare Ring, JBM, Deane and Horgan as they played in completely different eras where the game evolved in different ways. I would highly doubt any people here ever seen Ring playing and only a few would have seen JBM or Cummins playing.
When Ring was playing players were only starting to field the ball. It would have been ground hurling and pulling in the air. Fielding the ball only became a thing in the 50s and was started by Wexford. Horgan played in an era where it is all but professional but in name. The game is faster,the players are fitter and there's much higher scoring and expectations to score a lot more than in any of the names I mentioned above. Joe Deane scored 3 points in 99 final and was joint top scorer for cork that day. JBM best day in all Ireland he only scored 4 points.
I also wouldn't use winners medals as a benchmark either. As said by someone above you could be the best player in Ireland but on a poor team or be an average player and have 2 or 3 all Ireland medals in your pocket. I would say he did carry the mantle for cork for a long time during their most barren spell in their history and would put Callinan,Reid,Canning and Horgan in the top 5 of the past 15 years and definitely top 10 of the last 25 years." So no top 5 place for Lynch, Kelly, or O'Donnell? I don't think Id be able to name a definitive top 5 myself!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17098 - 24/09/2025 22:50:12
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Patrick is among the best who played the game. He is also among greats who did not win an all-Ireland senior medal. If that is the criteria we judge greatness then we are missing something. Many greats who would not be in the top 10 counties. Let's celebrate Patrick's great career and wish him the best.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3184 - 25/09/2025 04:10:53
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Replying To foreveryoung: "Once again can't accept an objective evaluation. I'm not anti-Pat Horgan, just calling it as I saw it. I actually thought that he got better with age and that he played his best hurling over the past 4-5 years at inter-county level. Dunno about club. However, in the bigger scheme of things, I don't rate him as an all-time great. For example, I would rate Seamus Harnedy much higher than Horgan. I believe that many Cork fans would also. And you can compare the two of those hurlers as they played on the same team, both forwards, in the same era." No they wouldn't. Don't deign to speak for Cork fans. Harnedy is a warrior and true Corkman. But you cannot put Harnedy up there with Hoggie.
You call it as you see it. Fair enough. But judging by your comment there about Cork people and their thoughts on Hoggie, I don't rate your view very highly.
I would say a lot of the comments here are more based on a dislike of Cork, rather than objective views.
Personally I think too 10 of all time is a huge statement and one with recency bias attached. I would definitely say he's top 4 or 5 of the past 15 yrs. then after that, there's so many greats, it's hard to compare.favourably.
However. What's clear is that he was a magical hurler, and the fact this is even being debated here and across the media shows he deserves it and is right up there.
BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 329 - 25/09/2025 06:52:51
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Replying To slayer: "I think to assess Patrick Horgan as a hurler, even within Cork hurling circles, you have to realise that he and the teams he played on faced different challenges than previous Cork legends like JBM, Kevin Hennessy, Tomas Mulcahy.
First off, in the pre-Horgan era, Cork rarely had to play Munster sides in Croke Park. After he joined the Cork setup, Cork lost 4 all Ireland finals and 2 semi finals to the 4 other Munster sides. 3 of the 4 semi finals that Cork won were against Kilkenny/Dublin and the 2024 semi final win over Limerick in Croker was a rare victory over a Munster side in Croker. Probably a Cork issue rather than a Horgan issue.
There was the Cork hurling strike in 2009. Whatever anyone's views on the strike, it impacted Cork hurling and they haven't landed the all Ireland since. That was a Cork issue rather than a Horgan issue.
Hurling changed over the course of Horgan's career with higher scores being recorded in games. This meant more scores in general, more frees and more of Patrick Horgan getting on the scoreboard. His rate of scoring meant that he always put himself in line for a starting place, but again, even within Cork circles I don't think he influenced big games in the way JBM, Hennessy, Mulcahy did. Possibly a Horgan issue more so than a Cork issue.
While his scoring rates were phenomenal, I don't think he had the ability to change the really big games (semi finals, finals) like previous Cork hurlers did. Thinking of the 1990 final for example, Cork went 8 points down to Galway but all of their forwards took responsibility for scoring resulting in 4 of their forwards finding the net. If you take away the frees from Horgan's scoring record, perhaps he was less likely to influence big games the further Cork went in the championship, which is a Horgan issue.
Horgan's all Ireland Finals scoring record:
2013 Draw (0-10, 0-8 frees)
2013 Replay (0-9, 0-7 frees)
2021 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2024 (0-12, 0-10 frees)
2025 (0-4, 0-3 frees)
All in all, a class hurler, top class servant to Cork hurling, a role model and fiercely loyal to Cork. He was very unlucky not to have won a Celtic cross, but as Cork's main forward for the majority of his career he didn't influence all Ireland finals in the manner expected from a hurler hoping to be in any top 10 list." As has been said already, that return in finals would compare favourably with TJ Reid, yet he does not get the same scrutiny. However, on a more pertinent point, comparing any of those past Cork players in the f Fard line is futile. The game has changed. The lighter ball, bigger hurls, have reduced the role of the full forward line. There were many times in the late teens and early twenties I was screaming to play Hoggie on the 40, to use his influence on the game more.
Alas, Cork needed two Hoggie's. One to score and one to feed him.
BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 329 - 25/09/2025 07:11:44
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Replying To Viking66: "So no top 5 place for Lynch, Kelly, or O'Donnell? I don't think Id be able to name a definitive top 5 myself!" the best corner forward for the last 7 or 8 yrs has been gillane unstopppable when in full flow.
munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1151 - 25/09/2025 12:12:29
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I hate these sort of threads myself. Inevitably it descends in to what about this, that and the other.
Horgan gave it everything he had and above all these sports are teams games.
Whether or not Horgan performed is irrelevant, CORK didn't perform or were desperately unlucky and that is why they lost.
Its a team game. He gave the game everything he had. Nobody can ask anything more, least of all the hurler on the ditch.
Best wishes "Hoggy", you own the game nothing.
(If anyone wants to know about countyman2022 go to the Wexford board and see his posts)
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1935 - 25/09/2025 12:43:07
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