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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Might be wrong but are we not away to Offaly and home to Waterford? Last time we played both in 2024 was Offaly at home at Waterford down in Welsh Park. I think before that we played Offaly in 22 at home and Waterford in 18 in the first round in Welsh Park also?
As far as I remember the fixtures weren't released until about the end of November or start of December last year." Doesn't work that way in the League. Just because you were home to somebody the last time you played doesn't mean you'll be away the next time, if there's been a few years in between the matches or especially if at least one of you has changed divisions in the meantime.
Instead of thinking of the opposition there as "Offaly", think of them as "Team 2" (as Dublin came second in our Division this year). Dublin thus move up to Div. 1A and become "Team 7" there (i.e. "the new Offaly"), and Offaly move down to our Division and become "Team 2" (i.e. "the new Dublin").
And since we were away to Team 2 (Dublin) this year, we should be home to Team 2 (Offaly) next year.
For a concrete example of this in operation, think of how we played away to Clare in Div. 1A in 2025, and then played away to them again in Div. 1B in 2026.
Instead of it being "Wexford v Clare" for home & away purposes, it was "Team 1 and Team 2 in Div. 1B", and it was Team 2's turn to have home advantage in that one.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 02/10/2026 17:51:09
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Oh, and yes, League fixtures are generally publicly announced around end of November or early December. I believe counties get a look at draft fixtures first a few weeks earlier, to negotiate things like changes to throw-in times and possible double-headers, and that's all done before they're made public.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 02/10/2026 17:52:40
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Replying To OpenStandWall: "Might be wrong but are we not away to Offaly and home to Waterford? Last time we played both in 2024 was Offaly at home at Waterford down in Welsh Park. I think before that we played Offaly in 22 at home and Waterford in 18 in the first round in Welsh Park also?
As far as I remember the fixtures weren't released until about the end of November or start of December last year." Fixtures masterplan was agreed today at a meeting of Ard Chomhairle earlier today, early so counties could consider when to play the Joe Mac final. Week 23 or week 27.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 03/10/2026 18:03:33
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Replying To Wexfordgaa: "Saying that Viking down away on a sat and Antrim away would be a savage weekend away in the hurling and football. Who is it we have in the football down Cavan Derry Dublin Monaghan Louth Fermanagh Tyrone. Am I Correct in saying that. My preference would be Derry Monaghan Fermanagh and Tyrone away just because I've never been to there grounds" All 4 are good grounds for atmosphere .
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 03/10/2026 18:09:58
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Replying To Wexfordgaa: "Saying that Viking down away on a sat and Antrim away would be a savage weekend away in the hurling and football. Who is it we have in the football down Cavan Derry Dublin Monaghan Louth Fermanagh Tyrone. Am I Correct in saying that. My preference would be Derry Monaghan Fermanagh and Tyrone away just because I've never been to there grounds" Just to point out we won't be away to Fermanagh in the League next year anyway :)
We'll have Dublin, Monaghan, Louth, Derry, Tyrone, Cavan, and Down.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 03/10/2026 20:15:35
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - yes, I realise that, in relation to who from Group 2 gets to play somebody from Group 1.
But what I meant was I'm taking it he thought that since two Joe McDonagh teams would move into Leinster, two Christy Ring Cup teams would move into the McDonagh to make up the numbers there, two Nickey Rackard Cup teams would move into the Ring, and two Lory Meagher Cup teams would move into the Rackard. And that this would have the effect of weakening those three lower grades as well. I was just pointing out that wouldn't be the case.
Anyway, am sure he can speak for himself, and he might be along soon." Yes I did miss interpret the proposal in the way you outline.
I like your explanation of what is proposed even less. We end up with a Venn Diagram of hurling in the lower tiers if I am reading you correctly.
If 2 teams go up to the LSHC then only 4 will remain in the Joe with the top 2 playing the bottom 2 from leinster in Joe semi finals. Is that correct?
Its a lot of change for no real material benefit in my opinion. It weakens every championship from Leinster down. Does this come from within Leinster?
Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 769 - 04/10/2026 16:49:23
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@Tadhg2020 - yeah, the Joe McDonagh would basically be left as four teams in a group, playing three games each, and with the top two qualifying for a semi-final. The other two semi-finalists would be the teams coming third and fourth in Leinster's Group 2.
And yes, this proposal is coming from within Leinster. It's the work of a group chaired by Nicky Brennan, and piece about it here from the Independent:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaa/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-for-leinster-hurlings-yo-yo-counties/a/162363647.html
Interestingly, according to that piece, both Kildare and Carlow managers are apparently all in favour of it. Despite how as long as they remain in Group 2, they'd only ever be guaranteed a game against fifth best in Leinster, and be playing a whole round-robin of group games for a chance to play a quarter-final against third best or fourth best.
To me, there's still very little difference between that and the old system of McDonagh Cup finalists playing third best in Leinster or Munster, apart from how the match would now called "Leinster quarter-final" rather than "All-Ireland preliminary quarter-final". But the two managers quoted seem to be greatly swayed by that new title.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 04/10/2026 20:34:00
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Tadhg2020 - yeah, the Joe McDonagh would basically be left as four teams in a group, playing three games each, and with the top two qualifying for a semi-final. The other two semi-finalists would be the teams coming third and fourth in Leinster's Group 2.
And yes, this proposal is coming from within Leinster. It's the work of a group chaired by Nicky Brennan, and piece about it here from the Independent:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaa/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-for-leinster-hurlings-yo-yo-counties/a/162363647.html
Interestingly, according to that piece, both Kildare and Carlow managers are apparently all in favour of it. Despite how as long as they remain in Group 2, they'd only ever be guaranteed a game against fifth best in Leinster, and be playing a whole round-robin of group games for a chance to play a quarter-final against third best or fourth best.
To me, there's still very little difference between that and the old system of McDonagh Cup finalists playing third best in Leinster or Munster, apart from how the match would now called "Leinster quarter-final" rather than "All-Ireland preliminary quarter-final". But the two managers quoted seem to be greatly swayed by that new title." Slightly disagree there. The 4th placed team in Leinster would be more beatable than the 3rd placed team in Munster. And to get to a QF at all the 7th and 8th placed teams would likely have to beat at least one of the 5th and 6th placed teams. The system would benefit the 7th and 8th teams better than the current system, but would negatively affect the development of the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th placed teams, as 2 of them will no longer play the 7th and 8th, or 5th or 6th, at all. And the 2 that do get to play one of those 4 teams will have to beat that team to play any others.
I do like the idea of more knockout games though, and if they can reverse the order of the AI finals as part of these changes so most of these knockout games are in June that would be maybe be better than what we currently have from the point of view of giving hurling more exposure overall.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 08:09:22
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Replying To Tadhg2020: " Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - yes, I realise that, in relation to who from Group 2 gets to play somebody from Group 1.
But what I meant was I'm taking it he thought that since two Joe McDonagh teams would move into Leinster, two Christy Ring Cup teams would move into the McDonagh to make up the numbers there, two Nickey Rackard Cup teams would move into the Ring, and two Lory Meagher Cup teams would move into the Rackard. And that this would have the effect of weakening those three lower grades as well. I was just pointing out that wouldn't be the case.
Anyway, am sure he can speak for himself, and he might be along soon." Yes I did miss interpret the proposal in the way you outline. I like your explanation of what is proposed even less. We end up with a Venn Diagram of hurling in the lower tiers if I am reading you correctly. If 2 teams go up to the LSHC then only 4 will remain in the Joe with the top 2 playing the bottom 2 from leinster in Joe semi finals. Is that correct? Its a lot of change for no real material benefit in my opinion. It weakens every championship from Leinster down. Does this come from within Leinster?"
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 08:12:10
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I've said it before that I'm not against 8 teams in Leinster but if you're going to do it, you may as well do it right and there's just so much wrong with this proposal
If it's agreed that this will come into play in 2028 before the 2027 Championship starts, then there is in effect no relegation from Liam McCarthy in 2027, I'm guessing we will be slated to play Laois last as they like to schedule who they perceive as the two weakest teams in the last round, that game could be a complete dead rubber if there's no relegation though
Honestly can't understand how some managers think this will benefit them, they talk about the need to play against better teams so they can develop but if we're being realistic, it'll be a case most years that they'll have a 1 in 3 chance of playing either 3rd or 4th in Leinster
The top group in Leinster will be a complete shambles, teams might mess around for three games because they know they're guaranteed a Leinster QF at the very least
How does promotion and relegation work? Does 4th in the top group automatically go down or is that only if they lose the QF? Does 4th in the second group go down or is that only if they lose in the Joe McDonagh SFs?
Not exactly a panacea but the format of this year's Leinster U20 would be better
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1571 - 05/10/2026 10:52:32
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@Viking66 - Fourth in Leinster would indeed be more beatable than third in Munster, but point remains that unless a county like Carlow/Laois/Kildare actually wins Group 2, they wouldn't be playing fourth in Leinster in the first place. More likely that they'd finish runners-up in Group 2 and have to play third in Group 1, and that's the match I'm comparing to the old system of a McDonagh Cup finalist playing third in Leinster.
Under the current system, a team you might rank sixth best on paper at the start of the championship gets to play all five "top" teams, and then gets to do it again the following year if they end up fifth best on the field rather than sixth best on paper.
Under the one being proposed, that same team is only guaranteed a game against "fifth best", might get a game against third or fourth best, and never get to play one of the top two at all unless they pull off a surprise in a quarter-final.
In my view, they'd be stuck in a quasi limbo land between the "real" Leinster Championship and the Joe McDonagh. Absolutely the longest of long shots to actually win Leinster. And winning the McDonagh would mean little or nothing, because going down that route would mean you'd only finished third or fourth in Group 2, when your ambition would have been to finish in top two. A bit like the discussion we had recently about winning a relegation final. Of course you'd be happy to win it, but you'd still be disappointed you ended up in it in the first place.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 05/10/2026 10:57:02
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I've said it before that I'm not against 8 teams in Leinster but if you're going to do it, you may as well do it right and there's just so much wrong with this proposal
If it's agreed that this will come into play in 2028 before the 2027 Championship starts, then there is in effect no relegation from Liam McCarthy in 2027, I'm guessing we will be slated to play Laois last as they like to schedule who they perceive as the two weakest teams in the last round, that game could be a complete dead rubber if there's no relegation though
Honestly can't understand how some managers think this will benefit them, they talk about the need to play against better teams so they can develop but if we're being realistic, it'll be a case most years that they'll have a 1 in 3 chance of playing either 3rd or 4th in Leinster
The top group in Leinster will be a complete shambles, teams might mess around for three games because they know they're guaranteed a Leinster QF at the very least
How does promotion and relegation work? Does 4th in the top group automatically go down or is that only if they lose the QF? Does 4th in the second group go down or is that only if they lose in the Joe McDonagh SFs?
Not exactly a panacea but the format of this year's Leinster U20 would be better" I share your view that I don't understand the apparent support for this from the mid-tier counties like Kildare and Carlow (i.e. the ones mentioned in that Independent article). Considering the long-held view that the way to bring on a county is to have them consistently playing at a higher level, this doesn't achieve that for them.
There'd be no promotion/relegation in the traditional sense, since finishing bottom of Group 1 wouldn't automatically consign you to Group 2 for the following year. So long as you won your quarter-final, you'd stay in Group 1 anyway, since that'd be made up each year of the four semi-finalists of the previous year.
So, in some years, two could swap groups. In other years, one might. But highly likely that in many years, the two Group 1 teams would win their quarter-finals, and so there'd be no change in Group 1 at all for the following year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 05/10/2026 11:14:59
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I've said it before that I'm not against 8 teams in Leinster but if you're going to do it, you may as well do it right and there's just so much wrong with this proposal
If it's agreed that this will come into play in 2028 before the 2027 Championship starts, then there is in effect no relegation from Liam McCarthy in 2027, I'm guessing we will be slated to play Laois last as they like to schedule who they perceive as the two weakest teams in the last round, that game could be a complete dead rubber if there's no relegation though
Honestly can't understand how some managers think this will benefit them, they talk about the need to play against better teams so they can develop but if we're being realistic, it'll be a case most years that they'll have a 1 in 3 chance of playing either 3rd or 4th in Leinster
The top group in Leinster will be a complete shambles, teams might mess around for three games because they know they're guaranteed a Leinster QF at the very least
How does promotion and relegation work? Does 4th in the top group automatically go down or is that only if they lose the QF? Does 4th in the second group go down or is that only if they lose in the Joe McDonagh SFs?
Not exactly a panacea but the format of this year's Leinster U20 would be better" I think the idea is that the 4 semifinalists from the previous year are in group 1 the following year?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 11:24:23
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - Fourth in Leinster would indeed be more beatable than third in Munster, but point remains that unless a county like Carlow/Laois/Kildare actually wins Group 2, they wouldn't be playing fourth in Leinster in the first place. More likely that they'd finish runners-up in Group 2 and have to play third in Group 1, and that's the match I'm comparing to the old system of a McDonagh Cup finalist playing third in Leinster.
Under the current system, a team you might rank sixth best on paper at the start of the championship gets to play all five "top" teams, and then gets to do it again the following year if they end up fifth best on the field rather than sixth best on paper.
Under the one being proposed, that same team is only guaranteed a game against "fifth best", might get a game against third or fourth best, and never get to play one of the top two at all unless they pull off a surprise in a quarter-final.
In my view, they'd be stuck in a quasi limbo land between the "real" Leinster Championship and the Joe McDonagh. Absolutely the longest of long shots to actually win Leinster. And winning the McDonagh would mean little or nothing, because going down that route would mean you'd only finished third or fourth in Group 2, when your ambition would have been to finish in top two. A bit like the discussion we had recently about winning a relegation final. Of course you'd be happy to win it, but you'd still be disappointed you ended up in it in the first place." The 7th or 8th team in group 2 might well not win the Joe Mac anyway. They will likely have no momentum , theyd of lost most of their games to have finished 7th or 8th in the first place.
I agree with most of the rest of your post though, Ive posted similar already.
I think mixed groups would be better if we have to have 2 groups of 4.
And while most of the emphasis has been put on the benefits/drawbacks for group 2 teams in the discussions since the plan was floated, it has to be said its hard to see any benefit for the teams in group 1 as regards preparing any of them to face a Munster county in a knockout game.
Hard to imagine there will be any real cut throat games in group 1 when theres nearly no jeopardy.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 11:32:52
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - Fourth in Leinster would indeed be more beatable than third in Munster, but point remains that unless a county like Carlow/Laois/Kildare actually wins Group 2, they wouldn't be playing fourth in Leinster in the first place. More likely that they'd finish runners-up in Group 2 and have to play third in Group 1, and that's the match I'm comparing to the old system of a McDonagh Cup finalist playing third in Leinster.
Under the current system, a team you might rank sixth best on paper at the start of the championship gets to play all five "top" teams, and then gets to do it again the following year if they end up fifth best on the field rather than sixth best on paper.
Under the one being proposed, that same team is only guaranteed a game against "fifth best", might get a game against third or fourth best, and never get to play one of the top two at all unless they pull off a surprise in a quarter-final.
In my view, they'd be stuck in a quasi limbo land between the "real" Leinster Championship and the Joe McDonagh. Absolutely the longest of long shots to actually win Leinster. And winning the McDonagh would mean little or nothing, because going down that route would mean you'd only finished third or fourth in Group 2, when your ambition would have been to finish in top two. A bit like the discussion we had recently about winning a relegation final. Of course you'd be happy to win it, but you'd still be disappointed you ended up in it in the first place." The 7th or 8th team in group 2 might well not win the Joe Mac anyway. They will likely have no momentum , theyd of lost most of their games to have finished 7th or 8th in the first place.
I agree with most of the rest of your post though, Ive posted similar already.
I think mixed groups would be better if we have to have 2 groups of 4.
And while most of the emphasis has been put on the benefits/drawbacks for group 2 teams in the discussions since the plan was floated, it has to be said its hard to see any benefit for the teams in group 1 as regards preparing any of them to face a Munster county in a knockout game.
Hard to imagine there will be any real cut throat games in group 1 when theres nearly no jeopardy.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 11:51:22
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - Fourth in Leinster would indeed be more beatable than third in Munster, but point remains that unless a county like Carlow/Laois/Kildare actually wins Group 2, they wouldn't be playing fourth in Leinster in the first place. More likely that they'd finish runners-up in Group 2 and have to play third in Group 1, and that's the match I'm comparing to the old system of a McDonagh Cup finalist playing third in Leinster.
Under the current system, a team you might rank sixth best on paper at the start of the championship gets to play all five "top" teams, and then gets to do it again the following year if they end up fifth best on the field rather than sixth best on paper.
Under the one being proposed, that same team is only guaranteed a game against "fifth best", might get a game against third or fourth best, and never get to play one of the top two at all unless they pull off a surprise in a quarter-final.
In my view, they'd be stuck in a quasi limbo land between the "real" Leinster Championship and the Joe McDonagh. Absolutely the longest of long shots to actually win Leinster. And winning the McDonagh would mean little or nothing, because going down that route would mean you'd only finished third or fourth in Group 2, when your ambition would have been to finish in top two. A bit like the discussion we had recently about winning a relegation final. Of course you'd be happy to win it, but you'd still be disappointed you ended up in it in the first place." The 7th or 8th team in group 2 might well not win the Joe Mac anyway. They will likely have no momentum , theyd of lost most of their games to have finished 7th or 8th in the first place. I agree with most of the rest of your post though, Ive posted similar already. I think mixed groups would be better if we have to have 2 groups of 4. And while most of the emphasis has been put on the benefits/drawbacks for group 2 teams in the discussions since the plan was floated, it has to be said its hard to see any benefit for the teams in group 1 as regards preparing any of them to face a Munster county in a knockout game. Hard to imagine there will be any real cut throat games in group 1 when theres nearly no jeopardy."
Leinster teams need more competitive games to bridge the gap but this proposal does the opposite
Problem is that Leinster has to carry the burden of developing teams alone, that burden should ideally be shared across both Munster and Leinster
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1571 - 05/10/2026 12:12:23
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@Viking66 - was actually going to make same point about Group 1 in my earlier post, but was afraid it'd turn into one of those that become very long!
But yes, I'd fear for Group 1 too. As I said before, three matches just to decide if you go straight to a semi-final or to a quarter-final you'd more often than not be expected to win anyway. It's really only the bottom of Group 1 v top of Group 2 one that stands to be competitive.
Last five years, quarter-finals of third v sixth would have been Offaly v Kildare, Dublin v Antrim, Wexford v Carlow, Dublin v Westmeath, Wexford V Laois. In all five of them, the third-placed team won the corresponding group game by between 12 and 27 points.
Fourth v fifth would have been Kilkenny v Wexford, Wexford v Offaly, Galway v Antrim, Wexford v Antrim, Dublin v Westmeath. Potential for a couple of closer ties there all right, but there are still others that you'd have expected to be fairly straightforward.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4126 - 05/10/2026 13:23:44
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#elgransenor
Problem there is that most of those counties are in Leinster.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20799 - 05/10/2026 13:24:37
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Replying To Viking66: "#elgransenor
Problem there is that most of those counties are in Leinster." Yes but some form of 12-team national competition would be a fairer way of spreading the load
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1571 - 05/10/2026 13:53:08
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If ever there was a worse idea (except the no-jeopardy Wexford champ of last year) than this 2-group Leinster championship, this one takes the biscuit.
While Munster have a cut-throat, kill and be killed championship Leinster have a "let everybody take part", risk-free alternative which is leaving none of the Leinster counties fit for battle when we play them.
The same is happening at underage and Leinster counties are falling further and further behind. The underage structures make no sense either.
Its crazy that Leinster is allowing ourselves to be the development guinea pig for hurling. Whether or not there are more Leinster counties is neither here nor there.
The Leinster championship was weak this year already, this will weaken it further.
Its time to seperate provincial hurling from Liam McCarthy and open up underage championship to ensure the counties don't just play the same 4-5 counties year on year.
The slide in Leinster is alarming and its partly our own fault but we're trying to sit between two stools - promoting hurling and winning things - and we're all losing out.
At some point, Willie Maher and his team need to be asked is developing hurling solely the job of Leinster counties? While Munster counties hoover up All-Irelands at underage and adult levels.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2177 - 05/10/2026 16:41:52
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