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It was interesting to learn that part of the reason David Clifford developed as a FF was because he played for a small club, who played him as a FF on his older brother's team.
Most clubs will play their best players out around midfield, thus preventing them from learning the skills of FF play.
Often, those players (particularly if playing for junior or intermediate clubs) play out around the middle at adult level most of the time and try to double job as FF line or FB line players on county teams.
What you see in David Clifford (and generally through Kerry's production line of quality inside forwards) is a player who was physically big enough to play in higher age groups when younger, added to Kerry's divisional representative structures, ensuring he continued to play and develop on the inside FF line throughout his development phase.
In Mayo (and most counties), a similar junior club player would be reared to play in the middle third and never learn the skills of an inside forward. He would then never make the county team as he would be competing against players playing that position in A/senior football (who are developing quicker due to consistently playing at a higher standard).
There are different schools of thought in underage development in other sports, which are not mandatory in GAA but likely should be.
1. Rugby NZ - separate players based on weight/size rather than age
2. Ajax Amsterdam/Barcelona - rotating positions
In New Zealand rugby, by grading based on size, smaller players aren't excluded to scrum half/out half/wingers.
Similarly, bigger kids get to play those same positions in their teams and don't get landed with second row or back row only roles.
That allows them develop physically imposing wingers and skillfull back row players.
Similarly, but by different means, Ajax produce players who can play multiple positions and appreciate the whole tactical requirement of the team as they have played in most positions.
As an underage coach, it amazes me that a similar science isn't set out in any GAA club/county.
When coaching U8/10, I specifically insist on rotating players through all positions in all games, challenging them in unfamiliar positions and or game situations.
However, I would be in a minority as most coaches decide at that age that their kid won't play in defence or goalkeeper and deny them (and others) the chance to learn the requirements of those positions, limiting their overall skillset and game knowhow.
In the FAI they specifically outline the requirement to rotate positions up to U12, but it is largely ignored by coaches.
In the IRFU, position specialisation is prohibited up to U12, which, implemented without size grading (as per NZ) creates physical miss matches.
I would be of the opinion that county boards (or clubs) should mandate, rotation of positions to prevent short sighted coaches inhibiting long term development to win U10/12 matches in the short term.
I am interested to hear of anywhere where such a philosophy is implemented or is it mostly left to a coach to decide.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 06/08/2025 07:13:15
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On your first point, I can't agree with the generalism. In my experience, I've seen the better quality and bigger players often played at full-forward and be the main score-getters at underage. The same has been the case in my own club in many instances.
Clifford is a unique combination a physical attributes and endless hours of dedication. I'd be pretty sure very few forwards in the country have put as much time into developing their shooting as he has.
On the physical side, he's at least 6'2", physically very strong and has been been since he was a teenager, has very long arms and big hands and has a good burst of pace. He's lean enough and not too bulky, and doesn't suffer too many injuries as a result, similar to how Brian Fenton avoided injury for so long.
He's naturally left-footed and has a huge range distance wise. This combined with hours upon hours of kicking practice makes him a massive threat from a huge range of areas.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2478 - 06/08/2025 09:02:44
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Any ideas on how to fill the position that no child wants to play in - goal. Also a strategy to coach kids as keepers ?
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1789 - 06/08/2025 10:24:59
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "It was interesting to learn that part of the reason David Clifford developed as a FF was because he played for a small club, who played him as a FF on his older brother's team.
Most clubs will play their best players out around midfield, thus preventing them from learning the skills of FF play.
Often, those players (particularly if playing for junior or intermediate clubs) play out around the middle at adult level most of the time and try to double job as FF line or FB line players on county teams.
What you see in David Clifford (and generally through Kerry's production line of quality inside forwards) is a player who was physically big enough to play in higher age groups when younger, added to Kerry's divisional representative structures, ensuring he continued to play and develop on the inside FF line throughout his development phase.
In Mayo (and most counties), a similar junior club player would be reared to play in the middle third and never learn the skills of an inside forward. He would then never make the county team as he would be competing against players playing that position in A/senior football (who are developing quicker due to consistently playing at a higher standard).
There are different schools of thought in underage development in other sports, which are not mandatory in GAA but likely should be.
1. Rugby NZ - separate players based on weight/size rather than age
2. Ajax Amsterdam/Barcelona - rotating positions
In New Zealand rugby, by grading based on size, smaller players aren't excluded to scrum half/out half/wingers.
Similarly, bigger kids get to play those same positions in their teams and don't get landed with second row or back row only roles.
That allows them develop physically imposing wingers and skillfull back row players.
Similarly, but by different means, Ajax produce players who can play multiple positions and appreciate the whole tactical requirement of the team as they have played in most positions.
As an underage coach, it amazes me that a similar science isn't set out in any GAA club/county.
When coaching U8/10, I specifically insist on rotating players through all positions in all games, challenging them in unfamiliar positions and or game situations.
However, I would be in a minority as most coaches decide at that age that their kid won't play in defence or goalkeeper and deny them (and others) the chance to learn the requirements of those positions, limiting their overall skillset and game knowhow.
In the FAI they specifically outline the requirement to rotate positions up to U12, but it is largely ignored by coaches.
In the IRFU, position specialisation is prohibited up to U12, which, implemented without size grading (as per NZ) creates physical miss matches.
I would be of the opinion that county boards (or clubs) should mandate, rotation of positions to prevent short sighted coaches inhibiting long term development to win U10/12 matches in the short term.
I am interested to hear of anywhere where such a philosophy is implemented or is it mostly left to a coach to decide." Interesting post... I wouldnt think most clubs play best players around midfield. All depends on personality of player etc. When i did play GAA we always played our best player as full forward or centre forward. he never played midfield even as an under 12.
New Zealand and rugby with weight grades is solely because of so many polynesian kids and their propensity to be much bigger younger than kids of white european origin.
Fair play to you on rotating players across positions. I do similar in rugby. In fact on one team i coached i moved a player who was later involved with Munster underage teams as a backrow to play in the backs for a period to play in the centre to help develop his skills and because we had more than enough forwards to be successful,
Thats why its so important to get rid of any real form of competition/championship at under 12 level and below. then it should entice more coaches to rotate players around positions.
I wasnt a great gaelic footballer but was better as a defender than attacker yet my club never played me as a back always as a forward. it was only in school that i played as a back.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3797 - 06/08/2025 14:44:10
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The reality is a lot of coaches (and parents) treat being the goalie like some kind of penance or job for the useless.
The actual reality of goalkeeper role is you need a kid who can play outfield, who understands defense and how import a kickout can be to setting up attacks. You cant learn those things, if all you have ever done is play in goal.
At all levels up to U12, all players should be rotated through the goalkeeping position, even if its just for 5 min per session, or match. Keeping the "stronger" kids out of the goal creates a group mentality that the good kids don't go in goal, only the useless ones. If you do that, no one will want to play in goal.
For me - you have to rotate the position in very match or across multiple matches - giving kids no option - everyone gets a turn and its your turn.
You then have to do drills to teach the skills of goalkeeping to all kids.
have 1 session out of 8 where all kids practice goalkeeping skills - which are very transferable in GAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PysYvNJalco
There is also a good fun drill called Lightning, where the best keeping wins. All kids want to win.
https://www.soccerdrive.com/soccer-drills/lightning
Once they get to U13 - introduce the kicking tee and start teaching the skill of different types of kicking technique off the ground for 10 mins after main training. This should be done with anyone who may need to kick the ball out or anyone who wants to be a free taker. The more specialist the training the more kids want to do the position.
Treat it like a role for bad players and no one will want to it.
In the ongoing absence of Stephen Cluxton videos try some of these to teach the techniques for kickouts
https://www.tiktok.com/@gaelickeepercoach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhP77I3ftk&t=119s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s21Hf39-h64
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 06/08/2025 15:06:49
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The reality is a lot of coaches (and parents) treat being the goalie like some kind of penance or job for the useless.
The actual reality of goalkeeper role is you need a kid who can play outfield, who understands defense and how import a kickout can be to setting up attacks. You cant learn those things, if all you have ever done is play in goal.
At all levels up to U12, all players should be rotated through the goalkeeping position, even if its just for 5 min per session, or match. Keeping the "stronger" kids out of the goal creates a group mentality that the good kids don't go in goal, only the useless ones. If you do that, no one will want to play in goal.
For me - you have to rotate the position in very match or across multiple matches - giving kids no option - everyone gets a turn and its your turn.
You then have to do drills to teach the skills of goalkeeping to all kids.
have 1 session out of 8 where all kids practice goalkeeping skills - which are very transferable in GAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PysYvNJalco
There is also a good fun drill called Lightning, where the best keeping wins. All kids want to win.
https://www.soccerdrive.com/soccer-drills/lightning
Once they get to U13 - introduce the kicking tee and start teaching the skill of different types of kicking technique off the ground for 10 mins after main training. This should be done with anyone who may need to kick the ball out or anyone who wants to be a free taker. The more specialist the training the more kids want to do the position.
Treat it like a role for bad players and no one will want to it.
In the ongoing absence of Stephen Cluxton videos try some of these to teach the techniques for kickouts
https://www.tiktok.com/@gaelickeepercoach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhP77I3ftk&t=119s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s21Hf39-h64" That's very helpful. Whole thread is tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16768 - 06/08/2025 15:21:20
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Great thread. Always open to new ideas in underage coaching.
I remember Ruud Gullit saying that his father banned him from crossing the half way line so that he'd be forced to see the game from a deeper position and develop his game awareness.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9962 - 06/08/2025 15:50:08
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Replying To KillingFields: "Interesting post... I wouldnt think most clubs play best players around midfield. All depends on personality of player etc. When i did play GAA we always played our best player as full forward or centre forward. he never played midfield even as an under 12.
New Zealand and rugby with weight grades is solely because of so many polynesian kids and their propensity to be much bigger younger than kids of white european origin.
Fair play to you on rotating players across positions. I do similar in rugby. In fact on one team i coached i moved a player who was later involved with Munster underage teams as a backrow to play in the backs for a period to play in the centre to help develop his skills and because we had more than enough forwards to be successful,
Thats why its so important to get rid of any real form of competition/championship at under 12 level and below. then it should entice more coaches to rotate players around positions.
I wasnt a great gaelic footballer but was better as a defender than attacker yet my club never played me as a back always as a forward. it was only in school that i played as a back." Clare GAA have started with 'Bio-banding' i.e. grouping younger players together based on height/ weight. Seems to be working for them, certainly an interesting approach.
https://www.the42.ie/clare-gaa-bio-banding-minor-hurling-6744528-Jun2025/
ballyhoe55 (UK) - Posts: 3 - 06/08/2025 16:01:28
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A lot of coaches make the mistake of putting the young lad who can't kick a ball or hit a silotar to save there lives. This leads to the thinking only poor players are goalies. You need the best striker of the ball in goals to take pressure of the other positions. No point having your best players in midfield or fowards when the backline are all out trying to deal with someone who can't kick or hit the ball past them. This leads to frustration among the so called better players. You need a great player with skill and confidence to tend goals. You're putting you're team at a serious disadvantage playing a weaker player in goals they the ones you stick up in corner foward until they start improving.
2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 103 - 06/08/2025 16:06:47
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The reality is a lot of coaches (and parents) treat being the goalie like some kind of penance or job for the useless.
The actual reality of goalkeeper role is you need a kid who can play outfield, who understands defense and how import a kickout can be to setting up attacks. You cant learn those things, if all you have ever done is play in goal.
At all levels up to U12, all players should be rotated through the goalkeeping position, even if its just for 5 min per session, or match. Keeping the "stronger" kids out of the goal creates a group mentality that the good kids don't go in goal, only the useless ones. If you do that, no one will want to play in goal.
For me - you have to rotate the position in very match or across multiple matches - giving kids no option - everyone gets a turn and its your turn.
You then have to do drills to teach the skills of goalkeeping to all kids.
have 1 session out of 8 where all kids practice goalkeeping skills - which are very transferable in GAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PysYvNJalco
There is also a good fun drill called Lightning, where the best keeping wins. All kids want to win.
https://www.soccerdrive.com/soccer-drills/lightning
Once they get to U13 - introduce the kicking tee and start teaching the skill of different types of kicking technique off the ground for 10 mins after main training. This should be done with anyone who may need to kick the ball out or anyone who wants to be a free taker. The more specialist the training the more kids want to do the position.
Treat it like a role for bad players and no one will want to it.
In the ongoing absence of Stephen Cluxton videos try some of these to teach the techniques for kickouts
https://www.tiktok.com/@gaelickeepercoach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhP77I3ftk&t=119s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s21Hf39-h64" Great post.
ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 251 - 06/08/2025 18:02:16
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Replying To Freethinker: "Any ideas on how to fill the position that no child wants to play in - goal. Also a strategy to coach kids as keepers ?" Good question. I think it's the most neglected position for kids starting out but good team coaching will improve a goalkeeper's skills and confidence. Coaching kids is about encouraging them to improve by not being afraid to learn by making mistakes. They need to know that the only team that doesn't make mistakes is a team that won't take risks and strive to improve. This includes coaches having realistic objectives for their age group. The one thing that sticks out for me is trying to have a kickout strategy for boys or girls under the age of 16. Honestly, even over. I think they should keep it simple, kick that ball deep into midfield and fight for it. A few kickouts going astray can really erode a goalkeeper's confidence.
Arguably, goalkeepers are the position that need the most encouragement. They're isolated and usually nervous, when they start playing in goal, that they'll make a mistake that could cost their team on the day. It's a team game, not the keeper's fault always, needs reassurance and confidence built up by teammates, coaches and parents alike. Shyness can be another issue starting out. They need to be vocal with their defence and they're sometimes intimidated by more experienced players. Don't be blassing them telling them that improving won't take time and hard work but point to improvements they have made year on year and pick out some plus points after games to lift the mood. Getting together with parents and talking to the player, not at the player, can boost their esteem. Sadly a lot of underage teams, even in 2025, neglect their Number One and same girl or boy could drift away to other or no sports.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8197 - 07/08/2025 04:16:38
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Replying To 2maroonjerseys: "A lot of coaches make the mistake of putting the young lad who can't kick a ball or hit a silotar to save there lives. This leads to the thinking only poor players are goalies. You need the best striker of the ball in goals to take pressure of the other positions. No point having your best players in midfield or fowards when the backline are all out trying to deal with someone who can't kick or hit the ball past them. This leads to frustration among the so called better players. You need a great player with skill and confidence to tend goals. You're putting you're team at a serious disadvantage playing a weaker player in goals they the ones you stick up in corner foward until they start improving." The goalie with a poor kick out / pick out is a killer.
You see it so often in Go Games.
I was reffing my daughters U10 team the other evening and the coach of the team we were playing left the same goalie in the whole match kicking bad kickouts. She wanted me to throw the ball up at halfway instead of a kick out (killing the girls confidence in my view).
I had to move our team back out the field at each kickout to give them a chance to get a kick out away (basically introducing the retreat line from soccer).
I don't coach camogie but the coach there only plays the same two kids in goal all the time just because the others can't pick it out very well. Which isn't fair either.
Learning one skill early shouldn't result in the coach limiting a kids development because they are unable to coach the others how to execute a basic skill.
The same coach has 4 good strikers of the ball in the group. He rotates two between defense and goal and the other two between forwards and midfield. The other 4-6 girls rarely get to do anything other than glorified hockey.
The other kids, never get a chance to puck the ball unopposed from puck outs, sidelines, frees etc. in my view, the weaker strikers of the ball need those opportunities to hit the ball unopposed to build their confidence.
The GAA would be well served to have a retreat line for U10's football/hurling/camogie. Take it away at U12 and then reintroduce it for U14 in football when keepers start to kick from off the ground.
If the new rules are going to stick, I'd be removing the D from the pitch and replacing it with a 30/35 m arc for underage too. Id also move a 45 to the 40m arc for underage.
Half the reason the skill of kicking 45's is not prevalent is the specified distances are set for adults but applied to kids.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 07/08/2025 06:56:31
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "The goalie with a poor kick out / pick out is a killer.
You see it so often in Go Games.
I was reffing my daughters U10 team the other evening and the coach of the team we were playing left the same goalie in the whole match kicking bad kickouts. She wanted me to throw the ball up at halfway instead of a kick out (killing the girls confidence in my view).
I had to move our team back out the field at each kickout to give them a chance to get a kick out away (basically introducing the retreat line from soccer).
I don't coach camogie but the coach there only plays the same two kids in goal all the time just because the others can't pick it out very well. Which isn't fair either.
Learning one skill early shouldn't result in the coach limiting a kids development because they are unable to coach the others how to execute a basic skill.
The same coach has 4 good strikers of the ball in the group. He rotates two between defense and goal and the other two between forwards and midfield. The other 4-6 girls rarely get to do anything other than glorified hockey.
The other kids, never get a chance to puck the ball unopposed from puck outs, sidelines, frees etc. in my view, the weaker strikers of the ball need those opportunities to hit the ball unopposed to build their confidence.
The GAA would be well served to have a retreat line for U10's football/hurling/camogie. Take it away at U12 and then reintroduce it for U14 in football when keepers start to kick from off the ground.
If the new rules are going to stick, I'd be removing the D from the pitch and replacing it with a 30/35 m arc for underage too. Id also move a 45 to the 40m arc for underage.
Half the reason the skill of kicking 45's is not prevalent is the specified distances are set for adults but applied to kids." It's in the go games rules that the ball can be thrown in from the halfway line instead of a kick out. Obviously the goalie should be rotated. Sometimes there's nothing wrong with the kick outs but the opposition team may have a big player who dominates and wins all the kick outs resulting in no play developing for other players. We don't use it often but can be useful.
Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1051 - 07/08/2025 10:11:54
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Replying To ballyhoe55: "Clare GAA have started with 'Bio-banding' i.e. grouping younger players together based on height/ weight. Seems to be working for them, certainly an interesting approach.
https://www.the42.ie/clare-gaa-bio-banding-minor-hurling-6744528-Jun2025/" There is another article here which is free to read.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/why-bio-banding-may-unlock-the-full-potential-of-more-young-gaa-players
It is interesting that while separating kids chronologically is an accepted method, bio banding is not used in most places. The norm being that separating kids (for the purposes of coaching skills and player development) is best done by looking at the kids "date of manufacture" only. Such a limited view was developed during the industrial revolution and is most likely wrong.
Anyone who coaches kids can see that there are kids at U12 who have the skills of some U14 players and their are kids at U12 who might be better off playing with the more mature kids from U10.
Kids that develop late, often get left behind at U12/14 and end up giving up the sport to take up another solo sport which allows them develop at their own pace.
When you consider only 10% of a minor team ever make it to senior, this can often be because the physical attributes they developed early, have gone by 19 and they haven't the skills of some late developers.
The bid banding likely bring results for Clare and everyone else will try to catch up later.
Wayne Goldsmiths presentation on "There is no such thing as an elite 8 year old, or high performance 10 year old…' is worth a look for those of you who think 12 year old JImmy will be an elite county footballer.
https://www.tiktok.com/@mike_quirke/video/7326265549472664864?lang=en
So many underage coaches and parents put lots of effort into the few "stronger kids" at the expense of the many or worse still deny the kids the opportunity to get a rounded development in their early years of playing.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1550 - 07/08/2025 11:12:24
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