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Keep Or Adjust 2 Point Rule?

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Replying To Seanfan: "I know there's nordie meltdown this weekend but this takes the biscuit altogether." I think you have spectacular missed the point, like outrageously so Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12481 - 28/07/2025 14:26:25 2628677 Link
Replying To Breffni40: "Agreed, not to take away from Clifford in any way, or compare the players, but for example Jordan Morris' 1-6 against Galway is much more impressive than Clifford's 0-9 yesterday and should have a higher value" Why would you think that? Clifford kicked outrageous points yesterday that were definitely worth 2 points. hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 452 - 28/07/2025 14:33:44 2628679 Link
Replying To hopballref: "Why would you think that? Clifford kicked outrageous points yesterday that were definitely worth 2 points." I don't disagree but Morris got more scores and one was a goal. Maybe I'm wrong about Morris not scoring a two pointer? I'm just saying that any player scoring 1-6 from play with no two pointers, deserves more than any player scoring 9 including 2 pointers. The balance isn't right. I'm aware Clifford has scored put up outrageous scores of all denominations, I just used it as an example Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12481 - 28/07/2025 14:41:58 2628681 Link
Replying To hopballref: "Why would you think that? Clifford kicked outrageous points yesterday that were definitely worth 2 points." Of course they were worth 2 points. That's the rule! Michael Murphy kicked a brilliant free, from a very tight angle and got one point. Seán O'Shea kicked a relatively simple free, but just outside the arc and got 2 points. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 28/07/2025 14:42:36 2628683 Link
Replying To Breffni40: "I think you have spectacular missed the point, like outrageously so" Incredible level to reach there to miss your point! Yeah, I'd worry about what type of game we'll have in 10 years if the 2 pointer remains. We got a snapshot of it yesterday. Kerry being slow and ponderous around the arc (can't risk a tackle on them as it'll be a 2 point free attempt), waiting for their opportunity to take on a fairly central 2 pointer. I don't see why they merit double another point. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13837 - 28/07/2025 14:46:05 2628686 Link
Replying To hopballref: "Why would you think that? Clifford kicked outrageous points yesterday that were definitely worth 2 points." Exactly. If Clifford got freedom Morris had from Galway he'd have scored 2-9. Morris didn't do damage against Donegal but I'm sure if he or rest of Meath colleagues had that game back they may be alot better. Clifford's skill to kick those two pointers is worth it's weight in gold and may encourage other teams to find or develop better players. winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 768 - 28/07/2025 14:50:42 2628691 Link
"not to take away from Clifford in any way, or compare the players" What part of this is hard for people to understand? Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12481 - 28/07/2025 15:05:02 2628700 Link
Keep the 2 pointer but extend the arc more towards the endline, though apparently some pitches are only 80 metres wide. Every sideline free scored should be worth 2 points. Only frees where the kicker is fouled kicking for two points should be worth 2 points. I think if they were to scrap the 2 pointer and have a 4 point goal it would make some games awful to watch, defences too deep and too many balls put into the mixer. Goals are harder to score but watching points being kicked, especially from distance, is great to watch. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8189 - 28/07/2025 15:15:36 2628705 Link
Replying To winatallcost: "Exactly. If Clifford got freedom Morris had from Galway he'd have scored 2-9. Morris didn't do damage against Donegal but I'm sure if he or rest of Meath colleagues had that game back they may be alot better. Clifford's skill to kick those two pointers is worth it's weight in gold and may encourage other teams to find or develop better players." Are you sure there's enough "ifs" in your post? I'm just talking about 2 actual events that happened in this particular timeline in the multiverse. Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12481 - 28/07/2025 15:15:52 2628707 Link
Replying To TearsIn85: "Slightly different take on 2 point rule I was thinking the 2 points should be reserved for points scored from play only. Any shots off the ground or for a free from the hands stay at 1 point. This eliminates the anomaly of a 45 only counting as 1 whereas a free from the same point gets 2. It also eliminates the 2 points reward for an infraction way out the field where the ball is carried up, and stops the players taking such a ball back outside the arc. This will also speed the game up as we don't have to wait for goalkeepers to trundle up the field to take the kick in circumstances where the regular free taker could tap over from the original (closer) position. All for extending the arc to the end line and making a goal worth 4." Yeah, but picture this, if all frees were worth only one point, no matter where they came from: Donegal two points up yesterday, with the 70-minute hooter gone. David Clifford, already with three two-pointers to his name on the day, is lining up a scoreable shot from 41 metres. Donegal absolutely assault him and take him out of the game. He has to go off injured. Now Kerry have a free that'd be worth only one point. Their only option is to play it short and try create another two-pointer opportunity, while their best two-pointer kicker is on the sideline. That's an extreme example all right, but it shows how two points for a free from outside 40m is to discourage tactical fouling. And yes, there's an anomaly in that a 45 is kicked from further out. But the difference is that no 45 is the result of a tactical foul. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2990 - 28/07/2025 15:18:31 2628709 Link
Replying To cluichethar: "Makes absolutely no sense in stopping the arc at the 20m line. An attempt from inside the 20m line is way more difficult than from outside." Yep - after reading the posts on this I agree. Definitely needs some more thinking. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6523 - 28/07/2025 15:23:29 2628713 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Yeah, but picture this, if all frees were worth only one point, no matter where they came from: Donegal two points up yesterday, with the 70-minute hooter gone. David Clifford, already with three two-pointers to his name on the day, is lining up a scoreable shot from 41 metres. Donegal absolutely assault him and take him out of the game. He has to go off injured. Now Kerry have a free that'd be worth only one point. Their only option is to play it short and try create another two-pointer opportunity, while their best two-pointer kicker is on the sideline. That's an extreme example all right, but it shows how two points for a free from outside 40m is to discourage tactical fouling. And yes, there's an anomaly in that a 45 is kicked from further out. But the difference is that no 45 is the result of a tactical foul." I kind a 45 should be an indirect free never mind a two pointer. Yes, you want to discourage tactical fouling and that's why the two point free outside the arc. As another poster has mentioned a technical free is being punished too much when outside the arc. An overcarry, touching the ball in the ground, a double bounce should not be punished by a two point concession. As others have said the fairest way to have an additional score for outside the score us to completely change the scoring system. That would be much fairer but that won't happen. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 922 - 28/07/2025 16:00:08 2628731 Link
Slightly adjust. Shouldn't be two point frees from outside the arch. Not all teams have players that can kick two point efforts so teams will have to look at developing it. Kerry beside O Shea and Clifford don't really have anyone else that can kick two pointers Donegal probably have more in Murphy, Langan, Thompson and Gallen Meath have Kinsella, Costello and Frayne Most counties only have 2 to 3 max who can kick a two pointer under pressure and that's the big thing here is doing it under pressure. The four or five 2 pointers Kerry kicked under pressure were the scores of the match. Donegal set up zonally because they didn't want to concede goals but this left them vulnerable to conceding 2 pointers. If a team has to go zonal then they probably don't have the man markers to limit the best players. UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 431 - 28/07/2025 16:12:51 2628737 Link
All the new rules need to be tweaked a little or binned completely. The forward mark needs to go. The advantage rule is a joke now, players carrying the ball 20/30m down the field and then losing it only for the ref to call the play back. Handing the ball back to your opponent, cant tackle a player on a solo and go all need to get dumped cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 566 - 28/07/2025 16:33:57 2628747 Link
Why was the 2 point rule needed? Because all players were being discouraged from attempting (and learning) a fundamental skill of the game. Does anyone remember Derry being afraid to shoot at all, when one point behind in one match a few years ago. Donegals "low block" defence (and their copy cats) have been sitting inside 40m from goal, forcing long range kicks (at 50% accuracy) or waiting to smother a forward trying to get inside, for 14 years. We all have had enough of watching that tripe. Donegal sat in again in the final and were punished by a team who had more skills than they did (long range shooting). They sat in for so long, they let Kerry kick a two pointer after the buzzer in the first half and let Paudie Clifford have 76 possessions (mostly unopposed). They were 7 points down and let Kerrys half forwards have the freedom of Croke Park. If your U8's refused to go out and tackle like that, you'd go off the head. At times, the Kerry lads were dropping balls and messing up solo's and no one came out of the low block to pressure them. What are people doing complaining about Kerry taking their time to execute a score while Donegal sat in afraid to come out and tackle them. The slow build up play in yesterdays game is on McGuiness tactics, not the two point rule. Why should Kerry be forced into the low block, they should be rewarded for being skillfull enough to shoot over it. No one else was able to do it all year. Saying that, I was all for the 4 point rule for a goal. Pity it never got tried out - would love to see it in the provincial club championship. I don't think we should be wedded to the 40m arc though. It could be more of an half oval shape. 35m at the endline and 45m infront of the posts. I think the bringing a technical infringement back out should be to the 45m as a minimum and there needs to be a 60s time limit so we dont have to wait all day for a goal keeper to step up. In the NBA, the moved the 3 pint arc back, but the players just got better. the new obsession with 3 pointers means you can win without long range shooters. In the GAA we didn't need long range shooters for the past 10 years. Now we do. Get busy practicing on the training field. The two Clifford are probably out there this evening. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1530 - 28/07/2025 16:52:06 2628756 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "Why was the 2 point rule needed? Because all players were being discouraged from attempting (and learning) a fundamental skill of the game. Does anyone remember Derry being afraid to shoot at all, when one point behind in one match a few years ago. Donegals "low block" defence (and their copy cats) have been sitting inside 40m from goal, forcing long range kicks (at 50% accuracy) or waiting to smother a forward trying to get inside, for 14 years. We all have had enough of watching that tripe. Donegal sat in again in the final and were punished by a team who had more skills than they did (long range shooting). They sat in for so long, they let Kerry kick a two pointer after the buzzer in the first half and let Paudie Clifford have 76 possessions (mostly unopposed). They were 7 points down and let Kerrys half forwards have the freedom of Croke Park. If your U8's refused to go out and tackle like that, you'd go off the head. At times, the Kerry lads were dropping balls and messing up solo's and no one came out of the low block to pressure them. What are people doing complaining about Kerry taking their time to execute a score while Donegal sat in afraid to come out and tackle them. The slow build up play in yesterdays game is on McGuiness tactics, not the two point rule. Why should Kerry be forced into the low block, they should be rewarded for being skillfull enough to shoot over it. No one else was able to do it all year. Saying that, I was all for the 4 point rule for a goal. Pity it never got tried out - would love to see it in the provincial club championship. I don't think we should be wedded to the 40m arc though. It could be more of an half oval shape. 35m at the endline and 45m infront of the posts. I think the bringing a technical infringement back out should be to the 45m as a minimum and there needs to be a 60s time limit so we dont have to wait all day for a goal keeper to step up. In the NBA, the moved the 3 pint arc back, but the players just got better. the new obsession with 3 pointers means you can win without long range shooters. In the GAA we didn't need long range shooters for the past 10 years. Now we do. Get busy practicing on the training field. The two Clifford are probably out there this evening." Big difference between football 2 pointer and basketball 3 pointer. Close to the endline in basketball you can see all the hoop you are shooting towards, could shoot with both hands, a defender with minimal contact trying to stop you and you're indoors. In football if you're close to the endline you've a very obscured view of your target, you can probably only kick with your foot on the pitch side and you have weather to contend with plus a defender trying to peel the head off you trying to stop you. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8189 - 28/07/2025 17:10:25 2628763 Link
Needs to be 4 points for a goal, hardly worth going for goals anymore when you can rack up 2 pointers. I'd say there will be a few changes for next year. Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3399 - 28/07/2025 17:25:08 2628776 Link
Replying To Green_Gold: "I think we need a few years with the new rules and then make a decision. Overall the new rules have improved the game. Would it be sensible to get rid of 2 points for a free outside the arc? The only downside of the new rules that I can see is that you might get a lot more one sided games." I agree it would be sensible to leave the rules mostly as they are for at least 2 more years. They are barely a wet week in and there has already been changes to them this year. We will only know how the 2 point rule really pans out with a few more seasons and when coaches have a few years at it so this is not a time for a 4 point goal when we haven't even allowed the 2 pointer to settle in. There's too much learning to be done at the moment and while the changes have been dramatic they have greatly improved the game but they are only 6 months old. We don't know what coaches will do over the winter and based on the past 20 yrs could we be faced with another era of negative tactics? Even the FRC did not envisage a player who was fouled bringing the free outside and gaining 2 points for what should have been a pointer something I don't agree with but there's enough evidence there to change that one. I would also somewhat agree with extending the arc. Anyway we must be thankful to finally see forwards with talent allowed to play football and not handball. We've witnessed the best football in well over 20 yrs in the last 6 mths. Dothesimplethingswell (Sligo) - Posts: 5 - 28/07/2025 17:54:33 2628784 Link
Keep it but bring back the 4point goal. Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 372 - 28/07/2025 18:27:20 2628794 Link
I mean is this even a question, why would you get rid of it? Without it, teams would completely sit off and the sideways lateral stuff would return. It rewards risk, and was one of the reasons why Kerry won yesterday. Maybe the 4 point goal might be worth a luck at again, but 2 pointer has to stay. Cabbagepatch1667 (Meath) - Posts: 51 - 28/07/2025 18:39:00 2628795 Link