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Replying To StoreysTash: " Replying To Fionn: "2025 Senior Hurling Championship Top Scorers:
Sean Currie - Dublin 4-68
Cathal Mannion - Galway 2-67
Lee Chin - Wexford 3-56
Top Scorers from Play:
Cian O'Sullivan - Dublin 5-22
John McGrath - Tipp 7-16 (2-02 in the Final)
Martin Keoghan - Kilkenny 6-15
A great achievement by Sean and Cian to be at the top of Hurling Championship scorers for 2025.
As for Lee Chin - a remarkable player, year in and year out. Top class." I suppose any team playing Antrim has a good shot at that?"
Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 4545 - 23/07/2025 12:33:03
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Replying To bloodandbandage: "100%. Look, his fellow county men tell him he's deluded. He constantly states that Wexford are not far off the top teams, this despite them getting relegated, finishing outside the top 3 in a poor Leinster, and way off it under age." Easy now. Nothing but respect for Cork hurling here so I won't be kicking you while you're down.
However, you're judging our very young team on one season where the bounce of a ball could have changed everything.
That is sport, and no doubt Cork will bounce back.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3863 - 23/07/2025 18:38:27
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Spare a thought for those of us not from Tipp listening to a Tipp WAG for the next year.
But you have to credit them. They completely out-fought and out-muscled Cork in the second half.
A goal before half time can be a killer but fair play to them they upped the ante from the start of the second half and Cork had no answer.
I also do not like the "Hoggy deserves a medal". You deserve nothing in this sport, you earn everything. He is no more deserving than Lee Chin or Shane Dooley or whoever.
I thought Willie Connors should have been man of the match. He was everywhere in the second half and won every hard ball going.
Cork will just have to lick their wounds and come out swinging next year." The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2471 - 23/07/2025 20:07:36
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Replying To Bon: "The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends." Lee Chin wasn't that far away in 2019, played in a semi final and 3 quarter finals in his time.
Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 23/07/2025 22:18:16
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Replying To Bon: "The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends." Wexford team poor enough to win a Leinster title in 2019. Not half some rubbish written on this site sometimes
Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 262 - 23/07/2025 22:19:34
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The dust has settled a little. I've taken my time to comment as I know the Cork posters on here are sensitive creatures at the best of times. And this is not even near the best of times, so I have to tread carefully.
I admitted here earlier in the year that I didn't like this Cork team. It's not down to any one player. In fact, I like Pat Ryan a lot and I really rate and have time for players like Harnedy, Fitzgibbon, and Ciaran Joyce. But it is the flakiness overall that I can't take to. And it has been there since 2021. It has been there for the decade before that, but I don't want to label the current players for things that happened before their time.
Cork admittedly was very unlucky in 2013 and again in 2024 in two great AI finals against Clare. However, those Clare teams, I argue, lacked the killer instinct that the likes of Kilkenny, Tipperary, and to a lesser extent Limerick can produce on All Ireland final day. Is this current Cork team in any way better equipped to win an AI than the one Limerick trounced in 2021? Cork may have better forwards now, but the same players still go missing when push comes to shove on the big day.
Far too often have I seen the likes of Tim O'M, Coleman, O'Leary, Fitzgibbon, Lehane, Kingston, Horgan, Jack O'C, Meade, O' Flynn, Tommy O'C, etc. all go missing on big days. And when the guys out the field go AWOL, it is almost impossible to play in the full-back line, particularly when you're up against the likes of John McGrath, Darren McCarthy, or Peter Casey. This isn't just a one-year thing. This is symptomatic of Cork hurling since the likes of the Rock, Sean Og, and Brian Corcoran retired; the men with stubbornness and substance, with that resilience, as Tom Barry put it, "to go down into the mire."
Cork have always had splendid, even flashily skillful hurlers. But whenever they won All-Irelands, they also had their Johnny Crowley (that man was a rock ever before The Rock), their Denis Coughlan (a colossus, had it all), their Brian Murphy (Mark I), their Gerald McCarthy (as tough as nails), Pat Moylan, Tim Crowley, Pat Hartnett, Brendan O'Sullivan, Brian Corcoran, Sean Og, and The Rock. Who is there now? Ciaran Joyce and Sean O'Donoghue (SOD)! SOD has improved a lot, and his discipline is much better, but if he loses a yard of pace which can happen at his age, will he turn out to be a liability in that full-back line? The reinforcements for the Cork full-back line are water thin should they lose a player or have a player on a yellow.
Other than SOD and Joyce, who are the men to go down into the mire for Cork? Not one of the current crowd. And until they find at least two more, they may still remain within the top 5 teams, but they will not win an AI title.
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2354 - 24/07/2025 04:07:50
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Replying To Bon: "The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends." Closest Lee Chin came was 2019. Just couldn't hang onto our lead against Tipp.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16738 - 24/07/2025 07:25:47
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Interesting that Horgan is all time top scorer and now unlikely to ever win an all Ireland. Footballs current all time top scorer is Cillian O'Connor and also never won an Ireland.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11715 - 24/07/2025 07:35:40
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Replying To Jedobi: "Lee Chin wasn't that far away in 2019, played in a semi final and 3 quarter finals in his time." He's played in 6 AIQFs I think
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16738 - 24/07/2025 10:30:24
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Replying To foreveryoung: "The dust has settled a little. I've taken my time to comment as I know the Cork posters on here are sensitive creatures at the best of times. And this is not even near the best of times, so I have to tread carefully.
I admitted here earlier in the year that I didn't like this Cork team. It's not down to any one player. In fact, I like Pat Ryan a lot and I really rate and have time for players like Harnedy, Fitzgibbon, and Ciaran Joyce. But it is the flakiness overall that I can't take to. And it has been there since 2021. It has been there for the decade before that, but I don't want to label the current players for things that happened before their time.
Cork admittedly was very unlucky in 2013 and again in 2024 in two great AI finals against Clare. However, those Clare teams, I argue, lacked the killer instinct that the likes of Kilkenny, Tipperary, and to a lesser extent Limerick can produce on All Ireland final day. Is this current Cork team in any way better equipped to win an AI than the one Limerick trounced in 2021? Cork may have better forwards now, but the same players still go missing when push comes to shove on the big day.
Far too often have I seen the likes of Tim O'M, Coleman, O'Leary, Fitzgibbon, Lehane, Kingston, Horgan, Jack O'C, Meade, O' Flynn, Tommy O'C, etc. all go missing on big days. And when the guys out the field go AWOL, it is almost impossible to play in the full-back line, particularly when you're up against the likes of John McGrath, Darren McCarthy, or Peter Casey. This isn't just a one-year thing. This is symptomatic of Cork hurling since the likes of the Rock, Sean Og, and Brian Corcoran retired; the men with stubbornness and substance, with that resilience, as Tom Barry put it, "to go down into the mire."
Cork have always had splendid, even flashily skillful hurlers. But whenever they won All-Irelands, they also had their Johnny Crowley (that man was a rock ever before The Rock), their Denis Coughlan (a colossus, had it all), their Brian Murphy (Mark I), their Gerald McCarthy (as tough as nails), Pat Moylan, Tim Crowley, Pat Hartnett, Brendan O'Sullivan, Brian Corcoran, Sean Og, and The Rock. Who is there now? Ciaran Joyce and Sean O'Donoghue (SOD)! SOD has improved a lot, and his discipline is much better, but if he loses a yard of pace which can happen at his age, will he turn out to be a liability in that full-back line? The reinforcements for the Cork full-back line are water thin should they lose a player or have a player on a yellow.
Other than SOD and Joyce, who are the men to go down into the mire for Cork? Not one of the current crowd. And until they find at least two more, they may still remain within the top 5 teams, but they will not win an AI title." Paragraph 5 there was spot on. Those Cork players from the 70's and 80's were teak tough. You mention a lot of solid lads who could dip into a bit of resolve when needed.
Cork's half back line from 2005 was Sean Og, Ronan Curran and John Gardner. While none were known for any dirt, all three were well able to take physical punishment and keep on hurling. Perhaps unearthing one or two in that mould would be a way forward. Also the big decisions are needed. I'm 2005 v Clare, John Allen took off Ronan Curran and moved Gardner to centre back. It was that type of astute change that made that Cork team great, perhaps lacking of late.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6526 - 24/07/2025 10:56:49
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Replying To yew_tree: "Interesting that Horgan is all time top scorer and now unlikely to ever win an all Ireland. Footballs current all time top scorer is Cillian O'Connor and also never won an Ireland." If Harry Kane stayed at Spurs he'd likely soon become be the top scorer in the premiership and would also have no title. He might still surpass Shearer if he comes back.
Shearer himself is the current top-scorer and has only the 1 title, from his time at unlikely Blackburn.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2474 - 24/07/2025 11:08:12
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Replying To Jedobi: "Wexford team poor enough to win a Leinster title in 2019. Not half some rubbish written on this site sometimes" A leinster title in a poor province is light years away from an All Ireland. Sure kilkenny have won the last 6 in a row and none of them led to an All Ireland. Dont fool yourself.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2471 - 24/07/2025 13:58:02
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Replying To Bon: "The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends." We were very close in 19. If we'd had a slightly better bench..... history is history though
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3863 - 24/07/2025 14:40:33
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Replying To Bon: "A leinster title in a poor province is light years away from an All Ireland. Sure kilkenny have won the last 6 in a row and none of them led to an All Ireland. Dont fool yourself." Also Kilkenny only reached two All Ireland finals from the 6 in a row Leinster titles, 2022 and 2023 losing both. That's four semi final defeats for Kilkenny in six years. Leinster being poor is giving Kilkenny an easy passage to an All Ireland semi final but perhaps the lack of competitive games in their province means Kilkenny aren't as battle hardened as Munster teams when they get there. Kilkenny have lost the last two semi finals narrowly to Clare and Tipperary.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2566 - 24/07/2025 14:51:50
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Replying To Bon: "A leinster title in a poor province is light years away from an All Ireland. Sure kilkenny have won the last 6 in a row and none of them led to an All Ireland. Dont fool yourself." Sure the team we beat in that Leinster Final made the AI final, beating Limerick who were Munster Champions in the AI Semifinal, so it can't have been too poor a standard that year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16738 - 24/07/2025 14:54:53
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Replying To Bon: "A leinster title in a poor province is light years away from an All Ireland. Sure kilkenny have won the last 6 in a row and none of them led to an All Ireland. Dont fool yourself." He's always fooling himself...
bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 440 - 24/07/2025 15:41:23
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Replying To Viking66: "Sure the team we beat in that Leinster Final made the AI final, beating Limerick who were Munster Champions in the AI Semifinal, so it can't have been too poor a standard that year." Viking66,
No Leinster bashing here and I genuinely like watching Leinster hurling games. However the statistics don't lie - since the round robin format came in, back in 2018, I think it has sees Leinster hurling take a back seat to Munster in terms of all Ireland wins:
- 0 Leinster winners in that time
- 4 all Munster all Ireland titles in 8 seasons
- 8 Munster teams in a row winning the all Ireland
Physicality is mentioned, but I think the cutthroat nature of the Munster Championship is what has caused the gap to emerge. With 5 teams, nobody can afford to take their foot off the gas until at least round 4 in Munster. Then when it comes to the all Ireland series, yes Leinster sides have beaten Munster teams in one off games, but winning more than that has proven difficult. In 2025, Tipperary's record in Munster was P4 W2 D1 L1. When they got out of Munster it was P4 W4, D0 L0. This is exactly the same record as Limerick in 2018.
Even in the Covid years of 2020 and 2021, both finals were all Munster affairs. I suspect that the league formats of 2018 and 2019 had woken the Munster sides up to preparation levels and how to peak in an increasingly shortened chapmionship window.
In Leinster the extra game allows that foot to be off the gas. 5 points will get you out of Munster in third, but it will more often than not get you out of Leinster too which means you don't have to be on your game every match. If I was involved in the Leinster council, the alarm would be sounding somewhat and as it is unlikely that the GAA will remove the provincial chapmionships, I'd be looking at changing the format to suit the Leinster teams and prepare them better for the all Ireland series.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6526 - 24/07/2025 16:10:27
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Replying To Bon: "The difference is the Hoggie has been so close, and quite unlucky not to get over the line once. The likes of Lee Chin and Shane Dooley are/were light years away from winning an All Ireland. These two guys as class as they are/were constantly played at a far lower level and never got close to an All Ireland Medal. If either of them just missed out on one most people would probably think the same, but the reality is they were two fantastic players on poor teams. That said what hurling person would not like to see either of these three guys with an All Ireland medal. All legends." Chin did...he could have won one in 2019
But are you really arguing that because Horgan was so close he is more entitled to one?
Well sorry but he isn't. Nonsensical argument.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1912 - 24/07/2025 16:17:13
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Chin did...he could have won one in 2019
But are you really arguing that because Horgan was so close he is more entitled to one?
Well sorry but he isn't. Nonsensical argument." Well he played in four finals Chin played in none, so yes he would be more deserving. You're just looking at this through rose tinted glasses.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2471 - 24/07/2025 18:28:35
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Replying To Bon: "Well he played in four finals Chin played in none, so yes he would be more deserving. You're just looking at this through rose tinted glasses." He played in 4 finals and lost them all. If Cork had of had Chin instead of Horgan maybe they wouldn't be waiting 20 years.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16738 - 24/07/2025 19:00:08
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