National Forum

Holding Draw Before Provincial Finals A Mistake

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I don't think you'll find a team in Ireland who would show up on provincial final day to give anything but their absolute best so that they can lift a trophy, put their name in history and confidently step towards the latter stages of the AI with provincial glory giving them a swagger. This is all a bit of a non issue in my opinion.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2558 - 29/04/2025 18:35:29    2605496

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Given the strength of 3rd seeds, splitting Prov Finalists into 1st & 2nd seeds doesn't seem to have much value.

Why not just give 1st seeds to the higher '4 of 8' Prov Finalists based on the league - i e. Mayo, Kerry, Galway & Donegal.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3225 - 29/04/2025 18:51:52    2605507

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "They should play provincials during break weeks of the league with no qualifying or seeding basis from provincials for Tailteann or All Ireland. It's daft having Provincial Finalist seedings based on reaching a final but there are different levels and number of teams per province. Seed the All Ireland solely on league position and Tailteann Cup winners from previous year. Or go back to 4 provincial winners getting a bye to quarter final. Have knockout rounds from remaining 12 to get to quarter final, provincial losers bye to quarter final playoff. In 2025 any provincial finalists taking their eye off winning their province, by looking at potential group opponents, aren't confident and focussed on going far in the All Ireland Series. I think very few teams think that way but plenty of supporters on forums can look for negatives when there's loads of positives when confidence is high."
Next season looks set to be dafter! The Round 1 draw will be provincial finalists drawn against league qualifiers. It could be provincial winners against this year's seed 3s and provincial runners up getting would have been this year's seed 4s.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8755 - 29/04/2025 19:02:44    2605509

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Replying To omahant:  "Given the strength of 3rd seeds, splitting Prov Finalists into 1st & 2nd seeds doesn't seem to have much value.

Why not just give 1st seeds to the higher '4 of 8' Prov Finalists based on the league - i e. Mayo, Kerry, Galway & Donegal."
Nah. But i would use the league placing for seeding out.

Do it as follows in future.

Pot 3 and pot 4 teams are drawn out into four groups.

Then pot 2 is beaten provincial finalists.

Then provincial winners are ranked 1-4 depending on league position.
Top provincial team gets to pick which group to go into, then 2nd and 3rd with repeat of provincial finals avoided.

Adds craic to draw, incentive to finish as high up league as possible and give provincial chship extra kudos.

It would add serious excitement to the draw.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 316 - 29/04/2025 21:13:44    2605524

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "You have all the answers. I think they should have the draw after the provincial finals, but it's not the biggest issue in the world.
As sporting organisations go, the GAA is incredibly well run. The amount of moving parts from grassroots all the way up to national level is incredible.
Have they made mistakes? Plenty. Anyone trying to run an organisation of that scale and deal with challenges which are often external, is going to make mistakes.
It has been a massive success story, and as an amateur sporting organisation, it has achieved an incredible amount. We have sports which are so intertwined with their communities.
I'm sure you would have done a better job though."
That wouldn't be too hard now would it…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3784 - 29/04/2025 23:17:46    2605538

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "You have all the answers. I think they should have the draw after the provincial finals, but it's not the biggest issue in the world.
As sporting organisations go, the GAA is incredibly well run. The amount of moving parts from grassroots all the way up to national level is incredible.
Have they made mistakes? Plenty. Anyone trying to run an organisation of that scale and deal with challenges which are often external, is going to make mistakes.
It has been a massive success story, and as an amateur sporting organisation, it has achieved an incredible amount. We have sports which are so intertwined with their communities.
I'm sure you would have done a better job though."
That wouldn't be too hard now would it…!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3784 - 29/04/2025 23:27:54    2605541

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Replying To Breffni40:  ""Imagine the motivation for Donegal v Armagh if winner knew they'd end up in a group with Galway, Dublin and Derry
and loser ended up in with Louth, Roscommon and Cavan. This is a distinct possibility and GAA thereby have again weakened another great product."

What exactly is the implication here? Your motivation to win Ulster shouldn't be conditional"
Well you haven't to worry about winning Ulster in caavan anyway so you can keep saving the pennies.
Having group draws before provincial finals is just plain bonkers.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3175 - 29/04/2025 23:34:50    2605543

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Well you haven't to worry about winning Ulster in caavan anyway so you can keep saving the pennies.
Having group draws before provincial finals is just plain bonkers."
It is. And while I don't believe any team would deliberately lose a provincial final, if losing did mean an easier route to the only real prize, and with how quickly games come up, well. .....

Apart from that it further takes away from whatever buzz there is around championship at earlier stages. Which seems to be mission of some people in administration.

Rugby can turn complete borefest non event dead rubbers into sellouts. LOI is packing venues every weekend for what is genuinely competitive and interesting league. GAA seems determined to reduce us to equivalent of dressage or indoor bowls.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3469 - 30/04/2025 00:31:20    2605548

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Gonna get abuse for this but Donegal fans have lost the run of themselves. I get the excitement with McGuinness back but yis are in no position to be indifferent to an Ulster title or sneer at 4th seeds. You've won nothing in ages but seem to have decided you're favourites for Sam and are winning games in 2nd gear. Saying it now as I'm not the type to say I told ya so when it goes wrong."
Coming from a Cavan gasoon, thats prize worthy.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 482 - 30/04/2025 00:47:28    2605553

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I don't think any county in a provincial final would pull up to lose for a perceived better draw in the group stages.
Last year both Mayo and Galway knew winning Connacht would result in a harder group (on paper) and both went for it hell for leather in the Connacht final - Galway got an awful lot out of digging out a win in injury time - Mayo lost confidence in themselves and lost two further close matches for an early championship exit.

Winning trophies is the best prep for the group stages.

That being the case, they should just hold the full draw now.
Seed 1 - last years All Ireland winner (Armagh)
Seed 2 - League winner (Kerry)
Seed 3 - defending provincial winner (Galway)
Seed 4 - defending provincial winner (Donegal)
Seed 5 - 8 based on league performance

Then everyone can plan their summer today.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1343 - 30/04/2025 08:46:07    2605576

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Well you haven't to worry about winning Ulster in caavan anyway so you can keep saving the pennies.
Having group draws before provincial finals is just plain bonkers."
Wow so witty and clever, you've really addressed the point and put me in my place

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12297 - 30/04/2025 16:59:05    2605791

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Coming from a Cavan gasoon, thats prize worthy."
I can have any opinion i want regardless of my county. Maybe grow up and and stick to the point not the poster. Basic forum etiquette for the adults among us

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12297 - 30/04/2025 17:01:44    2605793

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Its pretty clear now that the system only works if Dublin and Cork make it to their respective provincial finals.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1193 - 30/04/2025 17:37:36    2605807

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Its all too squashed, regardless of provincials, seedings, round robins or whatever other combo you can come up with. Injuries continue to mount with no room for recovery. One of the reasons for the split season was player welfare..Pffffffttt

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 549 - 30/04/2025 18:16:24    2605817

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