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Leinster Hurling Championship

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Replying To Canuck: "Munster hurling thrived because there was only two strong football counties and most of the time only one. In Leinster you have more counties that have a solid more equal football base as well as hurling. Dublin, Laois, Westmeath, Wexford, Carlow,Kildare and Meath maybe to a lesser extent equal in both codes. Kilkenny would prefer to play ludo than football. Galway are not a Leinster team but strong in both codes in their province with no competition in hurling. In Ulster Antrim are close to equal in both codes. The bottom line Leinster teams are at a disadvantage to succeed in hurling especially the chasers because of this equalization of codes. We know why the one who owns the Leinster championship and one of the reasons including their greatness for it. The provincial system is not the best way to grow hurling counties." I don't agree with this. In my old Dublin club, which plays both games, there are people who would go to hurling and not to football (like me) and vice versa. They might play both and support both in the club, but when it comes to county support it was 2 distinct fan bases in the club, and it often depended on whether your father was born in a hurling county or not and whether you spent your Sunday at Tipp or Kilkenny or Mayo or Cavan matches. Munster hurling thrived because in the 90's the likes of Clare and Waterford upped their game and took on Cork and Tipp. This rising tide has never dropped and all the counties have kept the standard at a really high level. We need Wexford, Galway, Dublin, Laois, Carlow, Offaly to do the same in Leinster. You are right though, the provincial system is not the best way to grow the game. In fact, relegation in Leinster is killing the relegated counties. It will never thrive with such protectionism at the top of the game. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1368 - 31/05/2025 20:53:41 2613816 Link
My solution to the hurling championship would be to have 1 group of 10 teams with everyone playing each other and if the table finishes like this(I'll use alphabetical order) Clare Cork Dublin Galway Kilkenny Limerick Offaly Tipperary Waterford Wexford You can still have Munster final of Clare/Cork and Leinster final of Dublin/Galway with Kilkenny and Limerick qualified for quarter finals. With this idea the best 6 are in the knockout stages and there's no whinging about Munster having stronger teams knocked out and weaker Leinster teams still in the championship. Having some great cross provincial round robin games will bring up the interest levels and attendances. Bottom team to be relegated as well. updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 901 - 31/05/2025 21:27:09 2613827 Link
Replying To updwell: "My solution to the hurling championship would be to have 1 group of 10 teams with everyone playing each other and if the table finishes like this(I'll use alphabetical order) Clare Cork Dublin Galway Kilkenny Limerick Offaly Tipperary Waterford Wexford You can still have Munster final of Clare/Cork and Leinster final of Dublin/Galway with Kilkenny and Limerick qualified for quarter finals. With this idea the best 6 are in the knockout stages and there's no whinging about Munster having stronger teams knocked out and weaker Leinster teams still in the championship. Having some great cross provincial round robin games will bring up the interest levels and attendances. Bottom team to be relegated as well." Yes I have suggested this before and scrap the league to create more time starting the championship sooner and having play offs. There is away of avoiding dead rubbers with semis available, quarter finals, wild card spot and relegation battles that should be not on one year results. Kicking down a team just promoted is send the effort to progress backwards. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3085 - 31/05/2025 23:30:39 2613868 Link
Replying To updwell: "My solution to the hurling championship would be to have 1 group of 10 teams with everyone playing each other and if the table finishes like this(I'll use alphabetical order) Clare Cork Dublin Galway Kilkenny Limerick Offaly Tipperary Waterford Wexford You can still have Munster final of Clare/Cork and Leinster final of Dublin/Galway with Kilkenny and Limerick qualified for quarter finals. With this idea the best 6 are in the knockout stages and there's no whinging about Munster having stronger teams knocked out and weaker Leinster teams still in the championship. Having some great cross provincial round robin games will bring up the interest levels and attendances. Bottom team to be relegated as well." Love this, it also gives the developing counties like Waterford a real target. Joke aside, my only fear is the amount of games to eliminate 4 teams. Love the idea of Wexford Tipp and Cork Kilkenny in the opening round say. Try something to change it up StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1857 - 31/05/2025 23:40:45 2613872 Link
Replying To updwell: "My solution to the hurling championship would be to have 1 group of 10 teams with everyone playing each other and if the table finishes like this(I'll use alphabetical order) Clare Cork Dublin Galway Kilkenny Limerick Offaly Tipperary Waterford Wexford You can still have Munster final of Clare/Cork and Leinster final of Dublin/Galway with Kilkenny and Limerick qualified for quarter finals. With this idea the best 6 are in the knockout stages and there's no whinging about Munster having stronger teams knocked out and weaker Leinster teams still in the championship. Having some great cross provincial round robin games will bring up the interest levels and attendances. Bottom team to be relegated as well." I like this idea, I'd love to see the likes of Kilkenny play a couple of good teams in the opening games, say limerick cork etc, they could be cracking games, instead of the usual mediocrity they are up against in leinster. Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2374 - 31/05/2025 23:46:54 2613874 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "I don't agree with this. In my old Dublin club, which plays both games, there are people who would go to hurling and not to football (like me) and vice versa. They might play both and support both in the club, but when it comes to county support it was 2 distinct fan bases in the club, and it often depended on whether your father was born in a hurling county or not and whether you spent your Sunday at Tipp or Kilkenny or Mayo or Cavan matches. Munster hurling thrived because in the 90's the likes of Clare and Waterford upped their game and took on Cork and Tipp. This rising tide has never dropped and all the counties have kept the standard at a really high level. We need Wexford, Galway, Dublin, Laois, Carlow, Offaly to do the same in Leinster. You are right though, the provincial system is not the best way to grow the game. In fact, relegation in Leinster is killing the relegated counties. It will never thrive with such protectionism at the top of the game." "In fact, relegation in Leinster is killing the relegated counties. It will never thrive with such protectionism at the top of the game." So, if there is no relegation and promotion (just like Munster), the protectionism at the top of the game will no longer thrive? Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2822 - 01/06/2025 09:17:48 2613915 Link
Replying To Bon: "I like this idea, I'd love to see the likes of Kilkenny play a couple of good teams in the opening games, say limerick cork etc, they could be cracking games, instead of the usual mediocrity they are up against in leinster." Certainly it has merits but I reckon it would be stiffly opposed by the Munster Council. Their cash cow of the Munster round robin would disappear and they'd be left with just the Munster final, rest of income being divied out. Of course you'd have others objecting to getting rid of Division 1A and B of the league. Personally I dont see them serving much purpose in the current round robin championship system, they are glorified challenge matches most of the time. Division 2 and 3 of the league would still be important to keep though and who would sponsor them? No one I would suggest. Another flaw is that it couldnt be a 10 team championship, it would have to be extended to include 14 teams (all the current Div 1A and B) , otherwise counties like Carlow, Laois, Westmeath,Antrim , and Kildare (an improving team) would be banished most of the time to Cinderella status. Of course extending it to 14 then would dilute the quality and you'd have very many lopsided games so it would not be as appealing as the elite 10 team group would which no doubt would also have some lopsided results. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2026 - 01/06/2025 11:09:21 2613942 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: ""In fact, relegation in Leinster is killing the relegated counties. It will never thrive with such protectionism at the top of the game." So, if there is no relegation and promotion (just like Munster), the protectionism at the top of the game will no longer thrive?" No that is not what I meant. I wasn't calling for no relegation at all, more the opposite. My point is say Kildare win the JMcD Cup next week. Their reward for this is almost certainly to be relegated again next year. If there are a few teams at similar level in the LMcC Cup, they have a chance to stay up. At the moment, they would rely on shocking Offaly or Wexford or Dublin and hoping to keep the score down. What reward is that? If there was say a 12-team championship then the promoted team has a couple of games they can target. If they can stay up for 1-2 years they can make real progress. At the moment, Carlow, Westmeath, etc have won the JMcD Cup, come up, sprung the odd surprise result and been relegated only to fall back down and not come back. What does this to do promote hurling in these counties? The like of Waterford should still have to earn their keep on merit, rather than structuring the championship to protect them and this was and is my point. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1368 - 01/06/2025 13:11:07 2613976 Link
Replying To PoolSturgeon: "Certainly it has merits but I reckon it would be stiffly opposed by the Munster Council. Their cash cow of the Munster round robin would disappear and they'd be left with just the Munster final, rest of income being divied out. Of course you'd have others objecting to getting rid of Division 1A and B of the league. Personally I dont see them serving much purpose in the current round robin championship system, they are glorified challenge matches most of the time. Division 2 and 3 of the league would still be important to keep though and who would sponsor them? No one I would suggest. Another flaw is that it couldnt be a 10 team championship, it would have to be extended to include 14 teams (all the current Div 1A and B) , otherwise counties like Carlow, Laois, Westmeath,Antrim , and Kildare (an improving team) would be banished most of the time to Cinderella status. Of course extending it to 14 then would dilute the quality and you'd have very many lopsided games so it would not be as appealing as the elite 10 team group would which no doubt would also have some lopsided results." You could always say that the Munster Council get the gate receipts from a Munster only game? But also, is hurling the property of the Munster Council or do the GAA want the game to prosper elsewhere? This is the question that needs to be resolved. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1368 - 01/06/2025 13:12:25 2613979 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "No that is not what I meant. I wasn't calling for no relegation at all, more the opposite. My point is say Kildare win the JMcD Cup next week. Their reward for this is almost certainly to be relegated again next year. If there are a few teams at similar level in the LMcC Cup, they have a chance to stay up. At the moment, they would rely on shocking Offaly or Wexford or Dublin and hoping to keep the score down. What reward is that? If there was say a 12-team championship then the promoted team has a couple of games they can target. If they can stay up for 1-2 years they can make real progress. At the moment, Carlow, Westmeath, etc have won the JMcD Cup, come up, sprung the odd surprise result and been relegated only to fall back down and not come back. What does this to do promote hurling in these counties? The like of Waterford should still have to earn their keep on merit, rather than structuring the championship to protect them and this was and is my point." Point taken. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2822 - 01/06/2025 14:56:28 2614002 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "You could always say that the Munster Council get the gate receipts from a Munster only game? But also, is hurling the property of the Munster Council or do the GAA want the game to prosper elsewhere? This is the question that needs to be resolved." Replace the league with the provincial championships. Then have equal number, seeded groups for qualification to the knock out stage of the AI Championship. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2822 - 01/06/2025 15:07:51 2614008 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Replace the league with the provincial championships. Then have equal number, seeded groups for qualification to the knock out stage of the AI Championship." The League is very important as a step between club and intercounty championship. Its also a great opportunity for middle tier counties to play against better opponents, which should help their players develop. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16132 - 01/06/2025 17:41:47 2614064 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "No that is not what I meant. I wasn't calling for no relegation at all, more the opposite. My point is say Kildare win the JMcD Cup next week. Their reward for this is almost certainly to be relegated again next year. If there are a few teams at similar level in the LMcC Cup, they have a chance to stay up. At the moment, they would rely on shocking Offaly or Wexford or Dublin and hoping to keep the score down. What reward is that? If there was say a 12-team championship then the promoted team has a couple of games they can target. If they can stay up for 1-2 years they can make real progress. At the moment, Carlow, Westmeath, etc have won the JMcD Cup, come up, sprung the odd surprise result and been relegated only to fall back down and not come back. What does this to do promote hurling in these counties? The like of Waterford should still have to earn their keep on merit, rather than structuring the championship to protect them and this was and is my point." The champion is structured now to get a team who would not hold a candle to Clare, Wexford or Waterford. That is not taking from any team on the way up. Earn their keep like you said. It is not about Waterford either. The world knows at the moment the winner of the McDonagh would not be at the same level as the fourth teams in Leinster or Munster but a structure in place biased towards their participation in the McCarthy cup. You can slice or dice anyway you like that is the facts. Why aren't the winners of the other cups not given the same opportunity. They have to move through the levels. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3085 - 01/06/2025 23:33:49 2614191 Link
Replying To Canuck: "The champion is structured now to get a team who would not hold a candle to Clare, Wexford or Waterford. That is not taking from any team on the way up. Earn their keep like you said. It is not about Waterford either. The world knows at the moment the winner of the McDonagh would not be at the same level as the fourth teams in Leinster or Munster but a structure in place biased towards their participation in the McCarthy cup. You can slice or dice anyway you like that is the facts. Why aren't the winners of the other cups not given the same opportunity. They have to move through the levels." In order to get the proposal to changevthe Leinster and Munster championships and no longer allow Leinster teams compete in their own province and Liam McCarthy, this quarter final link was proposed. Proposals to change should address the reasons the new structure could only get through with this link to Liam McCarthy, rather than viewing purely from the perspective of a couple of counties. Firceall (Offaly) - Posts: 40 - 02/06/2025 11:18:27 2614251 Link
Replying To updwell: "My solution to the hurling championship would be to have 1 group of 10 teams with everyone playing each other and if the table finishes like this(I'll use alphabetical order) Clare Cork Dublin Galway Kilkenny Limerick Offaly Tipperary Waterford Wexford You can still have Munster final of Clare/Cork and Leinster final of Dublin/Galway with Kilkenny and Limerick qualified for quarter finals. With this idea the best 6 are in the knockout stages and there's no whinging about Munster having stronger teams knocked out and weaker Leinster teams still in the championship. Having some great cross provincial round robin games will bring up the interest levels and attendances. Bottom team to be relegated as well." Just asking. What if the ten teams were to finish in this order? - 1. Limerick 2. Cork 3. Clare 4. Tipperary 5. Kilkenny 6. Waterford 7. Galway 8. Wexford 9. Dublin 10. Offaly Would you still have a Leinster Final of 4th v 7th, even though 7th would apparently be out of the championship proper? What would be the relevance of the Munster Final of 1st v 2nd in terms of where the winners/losers go in the All-Ireland series afterwards? Would the team that finished in second place in the group (Cork) be in a worse position as provincial runners-up than the team who finished in fifth place (Kilkenny) would be a provincial champions? Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2912 - 02/06/2025 21:06:56 2614433 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Replace the league with the provincial championships. Then have equal number, seeded groups for qualification to the knock out stage of the AI Championship." That is the logical answer. But logic does not always trump the traditionalists, many of whom hold great sway in our organisation. It would allow for Leinster Championship to be extended beyond its current reach, i.e. allowing Kildare, Laois, etc to compete. So what if they get a hiding off Kilkenny, they have to start somewhere. The starting point for improving the championship in Leinster is for better underage competitions, with teams hurling harder at a higher level. At the moment, nobody in Leinster is really competing at minor or u20 bar Kilkenny. We all need to up our game. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1368 - 03/06/2025 13:02:55 2614545 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "Replace the league with the provincial championships. Then have equal number, seeded groups for qualification to the knock out stage of the AI Championship." Good idea, makes sense. The league is only a cod at this stage. Spread it out a bit too so games aren't as cramped as they are presently. Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2374 - 03/06/2025 14:40:07 2614584 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "That is the logical answer. But logic does not always trump the traditionalists, many of whom hold great sway in our organisation. It would allow for Leinster Championship to be extended beyond its current reach, i.e. allowing Kildare, Laois, etc to compete. So what if they get a hiding off Kilkenny, they have to start somewhere. The starting point for improving the championship in Leinster is for better underage competitions, with teams hurling harder at a higher level. At the moment, nobody in Leinster is really competing at minor or u20 bar Kilkenny. We all need to up our game." The Leinster Championship would have to revert back to being a Championship for all Leinster counties so that the middle tier Leinster counties have the opportunity to play the better Leinster counties. The problem then is where do Galway, Antrim and Kerry go? Maybe put Kerry back into Munster, and Antrim and Galway just wait for the AI Series? They probably won't be happy with that, as they would be coming in cold to the AI Series though. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16132 - 03/06/2025 15:29:12 2614601 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Just asking. What if the ten teams were to finish in this order? - 1. Limerick 2. Cork 3. Clare 4. Tipperary 5. Kilkenny 6. Waterford 7. Galway 8. Wexford 9. Dublin 10. Offaly Would you still have a Leinster Final of 4th v 7th, even though 7th would apparently be out of the championship proper? What would be the relevance of the Munster Final of 1st v 2nd in terms of where the winners/losers go in the All-Ireland series afterwards? Would the team that finished in second place in the group (Cork) be in a worse position as provincial runners-up than the team who finished in fifth place (Kilkenny) would be a provincial champions?" I would have Limerick v Cork in Munster final and Kilkenny/ Galway Leinster final with Clare and Tipp as the QF. That would be tough on Waterford but to keep the provincial finals you have to have that. There is no perfect solution to this but I would think this is the fairest. The likelihood of 5 teams from 1 province finishing in the top 6 with this suggestion is unlikely but it could happen. It's only a suggestion but I think this would work and the cross provincial games would be a big attraction to fans. Clare/Galway, Tipp/Kk, Wat/Wex, Cork/Kk, Limerick/Galway, Offaly/Tipp all big crowd pullers. updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 901 - 03/06/2025 20:50:11 2614671 Link
Replying To updwell: "I would have Limerick v Cork in Munster final and Kilkenny/ Galway Leinster final with Clare and Tipp as the QF. That would be tough on Waterford but to keep the provincial finals you have to have that. There is no perfect solution to this but I would think this is the fairest. The likelihood of 5 teams from 1 province finishing in the top 6 with this suggestion is unlikely but it could happen. It's only a suggestion but I think this would work and the cross provincial games would be a big attraction to fans. Clare/Galway, Tipp/Kk, Wat/Wex, Cork/Kk, Limerick/Galway, Offaly/Tipp all big crowd pullers." Personally I like it the way it is but if we're going to change it get rid of the league altogether, or do it as a proper pre season like Walsh cup was. Play your provincial championships in their current format march to April along with Joe Mac. Top two still go to provincial finals with the winner entering a semi final and runner up quarter. The remaining teams enter all Ireland round robin. This year you'd have Wexford, Offaly, Clare, Waterford plus Joe mcdonagh winners. Top 2 join provincial runner up in quarter finals. More games for everyone with both relegated team and joe Mac winners getting quality games in the 1 season. It's more exposure for developing counties as well. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3701 - 03/06/2025 22:35:08 2614689 Link