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Replying To brianb: "Be careful what you wish for. Lets say there's a national championship for hurling with 10 teams. There would need to be relegation for the bottom team. As Offaly found out - you can go from beaten Leinster finalist in 2004 to 3rd tier relegation in 2019.
Perhaps the change you're asking for is a relegation playoff between the bottom team in Leinster and the bottom team in Munster. Yes, this year Tipperary would have probably beaten Carlow well; but next year or the year after a relegation playoff between Antrim or Offaly against Waterford - would you be 100% sure of winning that?" I actually used a computer program to input all competitions with a calendar. A league championship allowed for a shut down in Dec,Jan, and Feb. and also got the club championship done. A play off system with the top two or three automatically qualifying. The middle contesting for a spot and the bottom fighting two teams either playing for or avoiding relegation. Three divisions would cover all the counties with the same system. Everyone playing for something should avoid dead rubbers. Tipp's last game this year was a dead rubber for them anyway. Like you said if Waterford were in a relegation battle with Offaly or Antrim it would be a true reflection of where they were and no complaints. Not being in the All-Ireland series this year was not. Not because it is us but could be any team.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2991 - 19/12/2024 14:59:53
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Replying To legendzxix: "Provincial councils won't go for it but the Dublin motion for 4 league games could be achieved through decoupling provincial championships from the All Ireland. Provincial rounds and county league rounds could be played on alternate weekends.
1. Leinster and Ulster preliminary
2. Connacht and Munster quarter finals
3. Leinster and Ulster quarter finals
4. Connacht and Munster semi finals
5. Leinster and Munster semi finals
6. Connacht and Munster finals
7. Leinster and Ulster finals
Leinster and Ulster county leagues could be played on weekends 2, 4, 6 and possibly the weekend before weekend 1. Connacht and Munster county leagues played on weekends 1, 3, 5 and 7." As you stated, I also don't think 'decoupling' Prov SFCs would get approved (e.g. Ulster says NO! in particular). My AILC neither fully couples nor decouples - with no Sam guarantee, Prov match pts are kind of a halfway house.
The 'alternating week' schedule though is a good one.
Given a total playing calendar of about 40 weeks (say, start-Feb to mid-Nov) - I suppose to be objectively fair - the inter-county and club should allocate evenly - each get 20 weeks, maybe split into 4 windows. That would require a smaller inter-county footprint - maybe with league reduced to 4-6 games.
As the league with its '4 divs of 8' is so popular - it could be left in place - a Swiss System could reduce the schedule from 7 games. Say, for scheduling only - teams are ranked 1-8 in each div - so for a
6-game schedule, A1458 v B2367, and in each group (A or B), 'best & worst v mid 2' (i.e. A18 v A45 & B27 v B36).
For 5 games, A1458 v B2367, and in each group teams 'with a seeding difference of 4', play the extra game (e.g. A1vA5, B3vB7).
For 4 games, it's just A1458 v B2367.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3155 - 19/12/2024 18:19:55
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Replying To omahant: "As you stated, I also don't think 'decoupling' Prov SFCs would get approved (e.g. Ulster says NO! in particular). My AILC neither fully couples nor decouples - with no Sam guarantee, Prov match pts are kind of a halfway house.
The 'alternating week' schedule though is a good one.
Given a total playing calendar of about 40 weeks (say, start-Feb to mid-Nov) - I suppose to be objectively fair - the inter-county and club should allocate evenly - each get 20 weeks, maybe split into 4 windows. That would require a smaller inter-county footprint - maybe with league reduced to 4-6 games.
As the league with its '4 divs of 8' is so popular - it could be left in place - a Swiss System could reduce the schedule from 7 games. Say, for scheduling only - teams are ranked 1-8 in each div - so for a
6-game schedule, A1458 v B2367, and in each group (A or B), 'best & worst v mid 2' (i.e. A18 v A45 & B27 v B36).
For 5 games, A1458 v B2367, and in each group teams 'with a seeding difference of 4', play the extra game (e.g. A1vA5, B3vB7).
For 4 games, it's just A1458 v B2367." Pikeman96 is right about Dublin. They need to get their own structures in place instead of trying to impose it on the whole country. Players should be more available for their clubs but counties have to sort that for themselves. The Down manager was supposed to be good at releasing players back to their clubs.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 19/12/2024 21:14:04
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You have to wonder about a mentality that thinks an amateur football or hurling adult should be forced to play (or not play) matches because people on the sidelines (who don't play) want them to.
The fixtures were fixed a few years ago. No players are forced to sit on the bench (and not play) for months on end when they could play meaningful matches elsewhere.
Players aren't that stupid - hence the high turnover of players where any intercounty manager takes that attitude
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 03/01/2025 04:46:59
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "You have to wonder about a mentality that thinks an amateur football or hurling adult should be forced to play (or not play) matches because people on the sidelines (who don't play) want them to.
The fixtures were fixed a few years ago. No players are forced to sit on the bench (and not play) for months on end when they could play meaningful matches elsewhere.
Players aren't that stupid - hence the high turnover of players where any intercounty manager takes that attitude" Do you live under a stone or something..? Of course lots of players involved with inter county teams sit most of the season without playing when they could be playing with their clubs but are forced into it by these high paid managers…. This nonsense has gone on at minor, U-20 and senior county level for years … You must be quite naive to believe or think otherwise.
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3662 - 03/01/2025 08:37:15
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "Do you live under a stone or something..? Of course lots of players involved with inter county teams sit most of the season without playing when they could be playing with their clubs but are forced into it by these high paid managers…. This nonsense has gone on at minor, U-20 and senior county level for years … You must be quite naive to believe or think otherwise." Good to see a new year hasn't improved your manners.
Let me explain a few things to you
1. This is a reasonably free country
2. No body can force you to turn up week on week without getting a game - you choose to let that happen
3. If your not getting a game week after week, you should go play for a different grade/panel
4. Unsuccessful managers disappear pretty quick these days as the county/club paying the training fees don't pay then too long if your not winning
5. If parents allow it go on at minor and U20 level, then they are doing their kid a disservice by not telling him to get out of there and
6. If your the sort of player (at senior level) who can sit on a panel for years on end, not getting a game and not being allowed get game time with your club - you want a kick in the hole and you haven't got the mentality to be a successful intercounty player anyway, so what are you doing there wasting everybody's time
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 04/01/2025 05:47:38
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Good to see a new year hasn't improved your manners.
Let me explain a few things to you
1. This is a reasonably free country
2. No body can force you to turn up week on week without getting a game - you choose to let that happen
3. If your not getting a game week after week, you should go play for a different grade/panel
4. Unsuccessful managers disappear pretty quick these days as the county/club paying the training fees don't pay then too long if your not winning
5. If parents allow it go on at minor and U20 level, then they are doing their kid a disservice by not telling him to get out of there and
6. If your the sort of player (at senior level) who can sit on a panel for years on end, not getting a game and not being allowed get game time with your club - you want a kick in the hole and you haven't got the mentality to be a successful intercounty player anyway, so what are you doing there wasting everybody's time" There are many good points in this post lad
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15211 - 04/01/2025 09:55:18
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Good to see a new year hasn't improved your manners.
Let me explain a few things to you
1. This is a reasonably free country
2. No body can force you to turn up week on week without getting a game - you choose to let that happen
3. If your not getting a game week after week, you should go play for a different grade/panel
4. Unsuccessful managers disappear pretty quick these days as the county/club paying the training fees don't pay then too long if your not winning
5. If parents allow it go on at minor and U20 level, then they are doing their kid a disservice by not telling him to get out of there and
6. If your the sort of player (at senior level) who can sit on a panel for years on end, not getting a game and not being allowed get game time with your club - you want a kick in the hole and you haven't got the mentality to be a successful intercounty player anyway, so what are you doing there wasting everybody's time" This is indeed sometimes the case but would you not agree that inter county managers should encourage those players on the panel getting little to no game time to play with their clubs instead of threatening to run them of the panel if they do play with their clubs… This is going on wholesale… Paid county managers and coaches are the ones depriving these lads games and thanks to Mayo GAA the revenue are starting to swoop in on these individuals pocketing huge sums of cash and not before time….!
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3662 - 04/01/2025 10:43:47
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Replying To ForeverBlue2: "This is indeed sometimes the case but would you not agree that inter county managers should encourage those players on the panel getting little to no game time to play with their clubs instead of threatening to run them of the panel if they do play with their clubs… This is going on wholesale… Paid county managers and coaches are the ones depriving these lads games and thanks to Mayo GAA the revenue are starting to swoop in on these individuals pocketing huge sums of cash and not before time….!" Good point. Some of them have become way too dominant. Especially in light of fact that they are in most cases not even county men themselves and are gone after a year or two!
Which is good that Leinster senior county hurling with one exception is back in hands of county men with strong club roots.
Association overall ought to have no fear of financial transparency, And as you say, not before time.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3427 - 04/01/2025 12:05:42
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If the GAA create a two gap between league finals and provincial championships:
1. Counties not making league finals should make players available for county league.
2. Counties with a bye to provincial semi finals should also make players available for a round of county league.
3. Counties knocked out at provincial preliminary or quarter finals should also make players available for a round of county league.
* At least 15 of the next matchday squad should have played a round of county league when required under conditions 1, 2 and/or 3 above.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8631 - 26/03/2025 08:29:46
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This debate is the same as the split season.
The county team should be a representative team built from the clubs within the county. The players should all be club players called up for the county rather then county players released back to the club.
The split season has given carte blanche to the county team to keep the lads away from the club until August. To allow for intercounty players to play more club league games you'd have to open up the split season for debate once more.
I don't think the split season is the best way of delivering certainty of fixtures for club players. Its is better than what was there but a well defined master fixtures list would be better.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 412 - 26/03/2025 09:24:22
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Replying To brianb: "This debate is the same as the split season.
The county team should be a representative team built from the clubs within the county. The players should all be club players called up for the county rather then county players released back to the club.
The split season has given carte blanche to the county team to keep the lads away from the club until August. To allow for intercounty players to play more club league games you'd have to open up the split season for debate once more.
I don't think the split season is the best way of delivering certainty of fixtures for club players. Its is better than what was there but a well defined master fixtures list would be better." Hmmmmm.....
Doesn't seem to be much appetite for re opening that debate other than the odd one saying push back the AI finals or a gap between NFL and SFCs.
1st February to 31st October is 40 weekends.
How best to allocate them between Club/County, Football/Hurling??????
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2167 - 26/03/2025 11:15:39
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Hmmmmm.....
Doesn't seem to be much appetite for re opening that debate other than the odd one saying push back the AI finals or a gap between NFL and SFCs.
1st February to 31st October is 40 weekends.
How best to allocate them between Club/County, Football/Hurling??????" You actually have 50 weekends and its fairly easy to allocate them
1. 12 county club championship (six hurling and 6 football)
2. 6 provincial club (4 hurl and 4 fball) - Ulster and Connacht hurling into Leinster, British fball champs into connacht
3. 3 All Ireland club (1 hurl and 2 fball)
4. 8 All Ireland county (5 football and 3 hurling)
5. 9 County interprovincial (4 fball and 5 hurling)
6. 12 intercounty league (7 fball and 5 hurling)
Thats the 50 weekends
24 hurling and 26 football.
Allow for a bit of overlap by seeding some of the competitions and you could fit it all in 48 weekends.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1278 - 26/03/2025 13:32:44
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