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Replying To Afinestick96: "The team I have picked has 4 new debutants and I think is good enough to compete well. Their may be at least one or two more new debutants off the bench also think likes Dundon, Mike Kelly, Darragh Kehoe, Kyle Scallan , Justin Moran and Conall Clancy could all see game time over the league." I think we need at least 3 new championship starters come April. Maybe 5. These will need regular starts in the 1st few League games, not a few minutes here and there. Bear in mind some of the lads given League debuts will show themselves to be not ready for Championship also. Assuming 50% might show themselves to have Championship potential, that means we need new and fringe players to fill at least 8 or 9 places in the first 3 League games. And some of the younger lads who made debuts last year, Cian Byrne and Eoin Ryan especially, will need regular time to improve further.
The only nailed on Championship starters as I see it right now if fully fit and in form are the 2 Recks, Conor Hearne, Lee Chin, and Rory O Connor. Conor and Kevin Foley likely also.
We have huge gaps in both the back lines, maybe needing 4 but definitely 2 lads to step up. We need another midfielder, and at least 2 forwards. And that's just the starting 15, that's not considering we need another half dozen lads on the bench who are just as good as the starters, if not closers for the last 20 minutes who maybe should be better than the starters they are replacing.
Alot of the lads tried in these positions over the last 2 or 3 years, and I'm not sorry if I sound like Countyman who is spot on about this, have shown they aren't good enough for Championship. So why play them in the League if it means we don't get a good look at possible replacements, who granted might not be any better. We will never know if we keep playing the same old faces.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 15:21:13
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Replying To Viking66: "I think we need at least 3 new championship starters come April. Maybe 5. These will need regular starts in the 1st few League games, not a few minutes here and there. Bear in mind some of the lads given League debuts will show themselves to be not ready for Championship also. Assuming 50% might show themselves to have Championship potential, that means we need new and fringe players to fill at least 8 or 9 places in the first 3 League games. And some of the younger lads who made debuts last year, Cian Byrne and Eoin Ryan especially, will need regular time to improve further.
The only nailed on Championship starters as I see it right now if fully fit and in form are the 2 Recks, Conor Hearne, Lee Chin, and Rory O Connor. Conor and Kevin Foley likely also.
We have huge gaps in both the back lines, maybe needing 4 but definitely 2 lads to step up. We need another midfielder, and at least 2 forwards. And that's just the starting 15, that's not considering we need another half dozen lads on the bench who are just as good as the starters, if not closers for the last 20 minutes who maybe should be better than the starters they are replacing.
Alot of the lads tried in these positions over the last 2 or 3 years, and I'm not sorry if I sound like Countyman who is spot on about this, have shown they aren't good enough for Championship. So why play them in the League if it means we don't get a good look at possible replacements, who granted might not be any better. We will never know if we keep playing the same old faces." Who do you think are the most likely to step up as new starters this year Viking? As you said we need a good few young lads to step up over the next 2-3 years . I think we really need a scoring forward and hope Jack Redmond steps up. I think Eoin Whelan will be given a chance to cement his place straight away and has the ability to step up and I think Sean Rowley is a future midfielder for us hopefully this year. After that there is a good few decent young lads in the squad that are capable of stepping up
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 389 - 10/01/2025 15:51:11
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Replying To Afinestick96: "I think its an era where we have been very competitive . I wouldnt call it successful though we've only reached two Leinster finals in the last 20 years and no league finals. I would hope our players dont view it as a successful period success is winning trophies. Although we are a bit off winning an All Ireland ,Leinster titles have to be our main goal for the next few years and until we win another one or two we wont be successful" Absolutely Afinestick
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 16:01:04
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I fully agree with that ambition but I don't think every year we don't win one can be considered a failure either" It's not a failure if we are getting closer. Closer since 2019 would surely be reaching another final at least? Dublin have reached 2 since then.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 16:02:46
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Replying To Afinestick96: "Who do you think are the most likely to step up as new starters this year Viking? As you said we need a good few young lads to step up over the next 2-3 years . I think we really need a scoring forward and hope Jack Redmond steps up. I think Eoin Whelan will be given a chance to cement his place straight away and has the ability to step up and I think Sean Rowley is a future midfielder for us hopefully this year. After that there is a good few decent young lads in the squad that are capable of stepping up" Whelan, Kehoe, Simon Roche, Cillian Byrne, Jack Redmond, Tucker, Rowley, Molloy, CBD and James Byrne are all lads who haven't started a championship game for us but might be good enough but we havent seen enough of them in real Senior Intercounty games.
Others who are further away for 1 reason or another are Carley, Dundon, Kelly, P Casey, Pepper, Scallan.
Then you have the Codds and Morans etc who could very well be good enough but we haven't seen anything of them.
There are other, and some of them older and more experienced, lads who have started numerous League games, and even championship games, who haven't looked good enough tbh. Maybe they will get better, but how many chances do you give them?
Being fit and athletic and having a good attitude around the panel and at training shouldn't be reasons to persist with them. Seeing their decision making, tactical approach, positional awareness, winning their personal battles, tackling, seeing and delivering a quick good pass, scoring percentage, and general heads up and speed of hurling, IN OTHER WORDS END PRODUCT, POSITIVELY INFLUENCING THE RESULT, improve would be great, but I'm beginning to think it's not going to happen with them at this stage. Some of these lads are around the panel and even starting 6 or 7 years. So why not give some of the newer lads a proper look to see if they are better? Maybe they won't be, but if they are never given the chance, noone (supporters, management, teammates and especially themselves) will ever know. And alot of them will just end up thinking #### this, Im off to do something else.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 16:43:13
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Replying To Viking66: "I think we need at least 3 new championship starters come April. Maybe 5. These will need regular starts in the 1st few League games, not a few minutes here and there. Bear in mind some of the lads given League debuts will show themselves to be not ready for Championship also. Assuming 50% might show themselves to have Championship potential, that means we need new and fringe players to fill at least 8 or 9 places in the first 3 League games. And some of the younger lads who made debuts last year, Cian Byrne and Eoin Ryan especially, will need regular time to improve further.
The only nailed on Championship starters as I see it right now if fully fit and in form are the 2 Recks, Conor Hearne, Lee Chin, and Rory O Connor. Conor and Kevin Foley likely also.
We have huge gaps in both the back lines, maybe needing 4 but definitely 2 lads to step up. We need another midfielder, and at least 2 forwards. And that's just the starting 15, that's not considering we need another half dozen lads on the bench who are just as good as the starters, if not closers for the last 20 minutes who maybe should be better than the starters they are replacing.
Alot of the lads tried in these positions over the last 2 or 3 years, and I'm not sorry if I sound like Countyman who is spot on about this, have shown they aren't good enough for Championship. So why play them in the League if it means we don't get a good look at possible replacements, who granted might not be any better. We will never know if we keep playing the same old faces." Spot on Viking, I feel McGukan has had ample game time over the past 2 seasons and he's come up short time and again. Niall Murphy, lacks the pace for intercounty. Seamus Casey played well in the league last year and then didn't get a sniff come championship, wrong age bracket too so maybe cut him from final squad. I'm sorry for naming names btw, any Wexford man who puts in the hard yards for their county has my utmost respect. We need to find out if the younger lads have what it requires in the league, but try and keep a decent mix of experience/youth.
YellowShadeOfPurple (Wexford) - Posts: 31 - 10/01/2025 16:43:19
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Replying To Afinestick96: "I think its an era where we have been very competitive . I wouldnt call it successful though we've only reached two Leinster finals in the last 20 years and no league finals. I would hope our players dont view it as a successful period success is winning trophies. Although we are a bit off winning an All Ireland ,Leinster titles have to be our main goal for the next few years and until we win another one or two we wont be successful" Only reaching two leinster finals in the last 20 years is a scary statistic.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2103 - 10/01/2025 17:54:38
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Replying To Afinestick96: "I think its an era where we have been very competitive . I wouldnt call it successful though we've only reached two Leinster finals in the last 20 years and no league finals. I would hope our players dont view it as a successful period success is winning trophies. Although we are a bit off winning an All Ireland ,Leinster titles have to be our main goal for the next few years and until we win another one or two we wont be successful" Reached 6 Leinster finals in the last 20 years, - 2005,2006,2007,2008,2017,2019.
Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 207 - 10/01/2025 20:03:33
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Replying To Jedobi: "Reached 6 Leinster finals in the last 20 years, - 2005,2006,2007,2008,2017,2019." Those first 4, particularly the 3rd and 4th ones, I'd rather not remember reaching tbh. It's a bleak and lonely road home on a motorbike by yourself, that old N11, after defeats like those.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 20:22:28
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Replying To Viking66: "With no Walsh Cup, and not knowing how lads are getting on in training, I couldn't name a definite League team. But if they are all going well and based on what little Ive seen this year at intercounty and college level, and ladt year club and county, then something like this-
Kennedy
Reck, Kehoe, Dundon
Whelan, Reck, Molloy
K Foley (deep midfielder)
C Foley, C Hearne
CBD, Rory, Rowley
Cian Byrne (on frees), Cillian Byrne
Subs definitely to come on, 1 for each line-
E Ryan, Lawlor, James Byrne, Tucker, Flood.
Other subs to look at depending on injuries-
Cian Byrne, Redmond, P Casey, Carley, Pepper, 2 Morans, 2 Codds, Mcguckin.
Hard job, don't envy Keith Rossiter." Forgot Simon Roche and Mike Kelly in this. Both also worth a good look at in a competitive Senior game.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 20:47:29
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Replying To Viking66: "It's not a failure if we are getting closer. Closer since 2019 would surely be reaching another final at least? Dublin have reached 2 since then." I did say Egan's time was a failure although there are nuances to it.
I would deem Rossi's first year as good progress.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3258 - 10/01/2025 21:13:29
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Replying To Bon: "Only reaching two leinster finals in the last 20 years is a scary statistic." It's not correct.
Won it 04 obviously.
Very unlucky not to in 05. 3 point game
06 8 point loss
07 hammered
08 hammered
Well beaten in 17
Won it in 19
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3258 - 10/01/2025 21:15:08
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I genuinely do admire that attitude. You're talking like Roy Keane, but we have to be realistic.
How is knocking the defending champions out when we had never beaten them in the championship not a highlight? It put us back on the map and made supporters and players start to believe again.
Moral victories are obviously not the ultimate prize but every one of those was important on the way to winning Leinster in 19. Could Davy have done what he did without those victories I mentioned? He used those to get the players to understand the level they were capable of, and those performances helped us recruit him.
Did Limerick become an overnight success without the same type of moments? There's no such thing as an overnight success.
Personally I think we left and all Ireland behind and probably should have at least one more Leinster which was devastating but you have to take something from it.
I'd love to see us winning provincial championships and more consistently but we've only 21 in our history.
Again, maybe you weren't following the team from 09-13 but those were very dark days where we were behind Offaly and under pressure with Carlow. Did you really expect Liam Dunne to turn that into major trophies? Our lord himself would struggle to do that.
I watched Kilkenny hurl us back down the n11 and do whatever they liked with fitzy getting pebble dashed in the goal too many times. I refuse to accept having their number isn't a good thing. I will enjoy every second of not getting battered by them. Incidentally I went to nowlan park absolutely certain we were going to win last year. I ended up disappointed but was nearly moved to tears to actually be able to believe we had even a chance.
Think of the 90s as well. Why did we celebrate the Leinster final more than the all Ireland? Because it was a breakthrough moment that started in a half empty croke park beating Kilkenny for the first time that decade. We didn't win the all Ireland against Limerick in 70 minutes. Christy kehoe built a team and lost major finals. Griffin got moral victories then a breakthrough.
Any one of those "moral victories" can develop into a similar breakthrough." You can't really compare the team Kilkenny have had since Fitzgerald took over in 2017 to present day to the one that was hammering us annually in the 2000s... We have gotten better yes but they've gone back also at the same time.
OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 149 - 10/01/2025 21:36:50
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Replying To Doylerwex: "It's not correct.
Won it 04 obviously.
Very unlucky not to in 05. 3 point game
06 8 point loss
07 hammered
08 hammered
Well beaten in 17
Won it in 19" Hands up I was wrong there forgot the finals in the mid to late noughties ( I'd rather forget the ones from 07 and 08)
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 389 - 10/01/2025 22:09:20
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I did say Egan's time was a failure although there are nuances to it.
I would deem Rossi's first year as good progress." It was. He did well. Found some new players. Got into 1a. Got close to qualifying for a Leinster Final. Same old failings did for us though.
We need to progress a little more now. He will know that himself. He's a smart lad, I'm sure he has a plan, with realistic targets set out. The Board no doubt has given him pecunary targets also, like staying in 1a, better gate receipts playing better counties, and better sponsorship deals if we reach Championship Finals.
Attaining those targets will help us on the pitch too, player and team development wise. First this year he will know he has to find more players. Then stop making the same mistakes during games. Be braver on the pitch, and the line. He will have learnt something from last year's mistakes I'm sure. Noone fell out of their mother being a genius intercounty manager, it will all take time. And experience.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 10/01/2025 22:27:08
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No expectation this year, I live in continual hope but somewhere during the campaign we always manage to make things miles more difficult than it should be, Westmeath in 2023 being the classic example. Hopefully players like Sean O'Brien continue their progression at minor and U20 but at senior think it's going to be a challenge.
Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 207 - 11/01/2025 08:51:16
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Replying To Doylerwex: "I genuinely do admire that attitude. You're talking like Roy Keane, but we have to be realistic.
How is knocking the defending champions out when we had never beaten them in the championship not a highlight? It put us back on the map and made supporters and players start to believe again.
Moral victories are obviously not the ultimate prize but every one of those was important on the way to winning Leinster in 19. Could Davy have done what he did without those victories I mentioned? He used those to get the players to understand the level they were capable of, and those performances helped us recruit him.
Did Limerick become an overnight success without the same type of moments? There's no such thing as an overnight success.
Personally I think we left and all Ireland behind and probably should have at least one more Leinster which was devastating but you have to take something from it.
I'd love to see us winning provincial championships and more consistently but we've only 21 in our history.
Again, maybe you weren't following the team from 09-13 but those were very dark days where we were behind Offaly and under pressure with Carlow. Did you really expect Liam Dunne to turn that into major trophies? Our lord himself would struggle to do that.
I watched Kilkenny hurl us back down the n11 and do whatever they liked with fitzy getting pebble dashed in the goal too many times. I refuse to accept having their number isn't a good thing. I will enjoy every second of not getting battered by them. Incidentally I went to nowlan park absolutely certain we were going to win last year. I ended up disappointed but was nearly moved to tears to actually be able to believe we had even a chance.
Think of the 90s as well. Why did we celebrate the Leinster final more than the all Ireland? Because it was a breakthrough moment that started in a half empty croke park beating Kilkenny for the first time that decade. We didn't win the all Ireland against Limerick in 70 minutes. Christy kehoe built a team and lost major finals. Griffin got moral victories then a breakthrough.
Any one of those "moral victories" can develop into a similar breakthrough." If winning a qualifier game 11 years ago makes an era successful, that right there suggests a problem with peoples attitudes. What has Roy Keane got to do with somebody wanting their county to do well, not counting qualifier wins asa measure of success. I am sure Davy could have done what he did without a moral victory in 2017 yes, he came in the year after we were beaten by 13 points by Dublin and 2 years after KK beat us by 30 points. A whole 'era' as you say won 1 Leinster championship, they had plenty of nights to be successful and not just be an 'overnight' success. Keep going with the low targets, I am sure that will get us somewhere. Crying because we almost beat a KK team on a downward trajectory is just pathetic. Griffins moral victory was getting beaten by Meath was it? Such a poor mindset, no wonder other counties laugh at us. 1 minor All Ireland in 57 years and 1 Leinster minor in 40 years. 1 senior all Ireland in 57 years and 1 Lesinter in 21 years. 1 u-21 All Ireland in 60 years. But hey, we won a qualifier game against Clare in 14 and Cork in 16 - absolute success.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 751 - 11/01/2025 09:02:01
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Replying To Jedobi: "No expectation this year, I live in continual hope but somewhere during the campaign we always manage to make things miles more difficult than it should be, Westmeath in 2023 being the classic example. Hopefully players like Sean O'Brien continue their progression at minor and U20 but at senior think it's going to be a challenge." GCs PP A QF against Johnstown is on next Tues at 2pm. It will be on clubberTV. Last game they finished with 10 Wexford lads on the pitch.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 11/01/2025 09:59:03
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Replying To countyman2022: "If winning a qualifier game 11 years ago makes an era successful, that right there suggests a problem with peoples attitudes. What has Roy Keane got to do with somebody wanting their county to do well, not counting qualifier wins asa measure of success. I am sure Davy could have done what he did without a moral victory in 2017 yes, he came in the year after we were beaten by 13 points by Dublin and 2 years after KK beat us by 30 points. A whole 'era' as you say won 1 Leinster championship, they had plenty of nights to be successful and not just be an 'overnight' success. Keep going with the low targets, I am sure that will get us somewhere. Crying because we almost beat a KK team on a downward trajectory is just pathetic. Griffins moral victory was getting beaten by Meath was it? Such a poor mindset, no wonder other counties laugh at us. 1 minor All Ireland in 57 years and 1 Leinster minor in 40 years. 1 senior all Ireland in 57 years and 1 Lesinter in 21 years. 1 u-21 All Ireland in 60 years. But hey, we won a qualifier game against Clare in 14 and Cork in 16 - absolute success." I wouldn't care too much about minor success except in itself it would be great for the lads involved . Most minor AI winners never win anything at Senior, alot of those lads never even make it to Senior Intercounty. We reached 6 AI Senior finals winning 3 between the early 50s and 1962. We had never won an AI Minor at that stage. More recently none of the Limerick team that have won 5 out of the last 7 Senior AIs won a minor AI either.
And since u21 moved back to u20 it's a worse indicator of future success also. Noone from any county with a minor u20 AI medal has ever won a SenIor AI.
I agree from a player development point of view, especially mindset, always being competitive every year and winning the odd one would be great for the players. As Martin Fogarty said to me a year ago in a wet and windy Callan, when I was trying to make him feel a little better about a really poor Kilkenny performance by saying it was only the Walsh Cup, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WINNING.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 11/01/2025 10:09:24
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Replying To countyman2022: "If winning a qualifier game 11 years ago makes an era successful, that right there suggests a problem with peoples attitudes. What has Roy Keane got to do with somebody wanting their county to do well, not counting qualifier wins asa measure of success. I am sure Davy could have done what he did without a moral victory in 2017 yes, he came in the year after we were beaten by 13 points by Dublin and 2 years after KK beat us by 30 points. A whole 'era' as you say won 1 Leinster championship, they had plenty of nights to be successful and not just be an 'overnight' success. Keep going with the low targets, I am sure that will get us somewhere. Crying because we almost beat a KK team on a downward trajectory is just pathetic. Griffins moral victory was getting beaten by Meath was it? Such a poor mindset, no wonder other counties laugh at us. 1 minor All Ireland in 57 years and 1 Leinster minor in 40 years. 1 senior all Ireland in 57 years and 1 Lesinter in 21 years. 1 u-21 All Ireland in 60 years. But hey, we won a qualifier game against Clare in 14 and Cork in 16 - absolute success." I wouldn't care too much about minor success except in itself it would be great for the lads involved . Most minor AI winners never win anything at Senior, alot of those lads never even make it to Senior Intercounty. We reached 6 AI Senior finals winning 3 between the early 50s and 1962. We had never won an AI Minor at that stage. More recently none of the Limerick team that have won 5 out of the last 7 Senior AIs won a minor AI either.
And since u21 moved back to u20 it's a worse indicator of future success also. Noone from any county with a minor u20 AI medal has ever won a SenIor AI.
I agree from a player development point of view, especially mindset, always being competitive every year and winning the odd one would be great for the players. As Martin Fogarty said to me a year ago in a wet and windy Callan, when I was trying to make him feel a little better about a really poor Kilkenny performance by saying it was only the Walsh Cup, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF WINNING.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14215 - 11/01/2025 10:09:50
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