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Wexford Hurling 2025

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Given the way things are going - would anyone else here feel we are going to be leap frogged by Offaly in the next 3-5 years when most of their current u20s or ones from last two years get to grips with senior inter county?

OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 207 - 17/02/2025 13:07:09    2591560

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "To be fair I'd say we were very competitive since the 50s

50s is obviously our defining era
60s we won 2 all Irelands
70s beaten in two finals
Late 80s through to 93 we weren't extremely unlikely but there or thereabouts
Early 00s competitive again without winning much

What I will say is we're much better placed to recover now than during the Colm Bonner era which is by far our worst since the 50s

I get the point you're making though. Past players from other counties in those eras would always refer to Wexford as being hardy and we are certainly lacking that at the moment which kind of brings me back to considering who we actually are as a people.

I think we've lost our way a bit.

The great Micheal o m made a remark in an article one time talking about Wexford. He said "daring to challenge and relishing the effort". That to me is Wexford, and a hallmark of all good Wexford teams. We don't care what medals you have, we're going to out fight you.

I recall 2023 when we had acdc and the greatest showman playing in the park just thinking "what is this nonsense?" . For the relegation game they went back to boolavogue and you could feel a totally different atmosphere.

It might seem trivial but that stuff is really important and I think we need to be leaning into it as much as possible.

Griffin understand it as he's so often quoted saying the 96 team were "playing for a way of life".

That was what we needed, bringing it all back home. What we needed to be who we were again.

It may also be sport, but it's origins of training warriors for battle and preserving our national identity at a time when a world power was actively trying to bury it should never ever be forgotten, especially in Wexford."
Wexford teams were often accused of playing too much with their hearts and not their heads. 1993 comes to mind, unbelievable collapses at the finish line of the league and leinster final. Griffin addressed that a few years later with an incredibly disciplined performance in the final with 14 men. 2019, sadly another day all composure was lost as the finish line approached.

So I think it's a balance. But giving your all should be the bare minimum and that's been lost in recent years.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 368 - 17/02/2025 13:17:12    2591565

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Replying To countyman2022:  "We have 4 Leinster titles in 48 years. That unfortunately, is not competitive. Standards and realizations of some people are so low."
That's why I made the distinction between 50-70 and onwards.

Competitive could be defined as constantly losing close games like all through the 90s.

You're right though. If we want to have a bit of ambition competitive is the starting point not the destination.

We built on competitive performances in 91,92,93 by winning an all Ireland in 96.

We were competitive in the early 00s which unfortunately culminated with one Leinster title.

The same in 13-19.

We're at a stage now that we're not even competitive but you cut your cloth according to your measure.

What's success this year?

I would have hoped we could build on the good things last year and get to a Leinster final.

Right now I think consolidating third place in Leinster would be good from where we are right now.

I'm not saying we should be happy with that, but it takes longer to build a skyscraper than a chicken coop.

If we finish third this year, it will be absolutely essential to blow the league out of it and bring us a step further again next year.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3416 - 17/02/2025 13:23:19    2591570

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Replying To OpenStandWall:  "Given the way things are going - would anyone else here feel we are going to be leap frogged by Offaly in the next 3-5 years when most of their current u20s or ones from last two years get to grips with senior inter county?"
I don't think so. Their under 20s weren't that much better than ours. We only lost by a score but it's up to us to develop ours better than they do at senior level. Our lads are physically bigger as well so it should in theory be easier for us to transition those lads.

Something that irritated me about that final is we were a little too kind to them on the pitch. Cork physically bullied them. We could have but chose not to for some reason.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3416 - 17/02/2025 13:26:01    2591571

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Replying To OpenStandWall:  "Given the way things are going - would anyone else here feel we are going to be leap frogged by Offaly in the next 3-5 years when most of their current u20s or ones from last two years get to grips with senior inter county?"
No knowing how many of those lads will make the step up to Senior yet. Some might not want to, some are pretty small, obviously lads like Spain, Bourke, Screeney, Ravenhill, and Mitchell are likely to. How effective they will be at Senior remains to be seen. Cork and Tipp won 5 AI u20s between them in successive years, and had better players already playing Senior than Offaly to start with. They haven't even won a SenIor Provincial title with those lads yet.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 13:51:30    2591578

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "To be fair I'd say we were very competitive since the 50s

50s is obviously our defining era
60s we won 2 all Irelands
70s beaten in two finals
Late 80s through to 93 we weren't extremely unlikely but there or thereabouts
Early 00s competitive again without winning much

What I will say is we're much better placed to recover now than during the Colm Bonner era which is by far our worst since the 50s

I get the point you're making though. Past players from other counties in those eras would always refer to Wexford as being hardy and we are certainly lacking that at the moment which kind of brings me back to considering who we actually are as a people.

I think we've lost our way a bit.

The great Micheal o m made a remark in an article one time talking about Wexford. He said "daring to challenge and relishing the effort". That to me is Wexford, and a hallmark of all good Wexford teams. We don't care what medals you have, we're going to out fight you.

I recall 2023 when we had acdc and the greatest showman playing in the park just thinking "what is this nonsense?" . For the relegation game they went back to boolavogue and you could feel a totally different atmosphere.

It might seem trivial but that stuff is really important and I think we need to be leaning into it as much as possible.

Griffin understand it as he's so often quoted saying the 96 team were "playing for a way of life".

That was what we needed, bringing it all back home. What we needed to be who we were again.

It may also be sport, but it's origins of training warriors for battle and preserving our national identity at a time when a world power was actively trying to bury it should never ever be forgotten, especially in Wexford."
I was including the 76 and 77 finals in the only era we were truly competitive in, that's why I said early/mid 50s til early mid 70s. We weren't really competitive in the 80s for an AI, we didn't even win a Provincial title. I did say we were sort of competitive in the early mid 90s, but that's different to being TRULY competitive.
I'm one of the kings of rose tinted glasses and being positive, but even I'd see that we haven't been competitive this millennium, truly or even half competitive.
Every year since the early 90s I've hoped at the start of the year we might win an AI. I haven't had the important feeling that goes with it since 99, the deep down belief that we could win it that year in any year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 13:58:43    2591582

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "To be fair I'd say we were very competitive since the 50s

50s is obviously our defining era
60s we won 2 all Irelands
70s beaten in two finals
Late 80s through to 93 we weren't extremely unlikely but there or thereabouts
Early 00s competitive again without winning much

What I will say is we're much better placed to recover now than during the Colm Bonner era which is by far our worst since the 50s

I get the point you're making though. Past players from other counties in those eras would always refer to Wexford as being hardy and we are certainly lacking that at the moment which kind of brings me back to considering who we actually are as a people.

I think we've lost our way a bit.

The great Micheal o m made a remark in an article one time talking about Wexford. He said "daring to challenge and relishing the effort". That to me is Wexford, and a hallmark of all good Wexford teams. We don't care what medals you have, we're going to out fight you.

I recall 2023 when we had acdc and the greatest showman playing in the park just thinking "what is this nonsense?" . For the relegation game they went back to boolavogue and you could feel a totally different atmosphere.

It might seem trivial but that stuff is really important and I think we need to be leaning into it as much as possible.

Griffin understand it as he's so often quoted saying the 96 team were "playing for a way of life".

That was what we needed, bringing it all back home. What we needed to be who we were again.

It may also be sport, but it's origins of training warriors for battle and preserving our national identity at a time when a world power was actively trying to bury it should never ever be forgotten, especially in Wexford."
Agree about the last part. But it's how to get the players to think that way is the problem.
Just out of interest what year was the last one you genuinely believed we might win the AI before the championship started? For me it was probably 2001. Since 2006 I genuinely believed every year that we wouldn't.
That's not even being truly competitive or slightly competitive, but rather the exact opposite.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 14:22:55    2591587

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I don't think so. Their under 20s weren't that much better than ours. We only lost by a score but it's up to us to develop ours better than they do at senior level. Our lads are physically bigger as well so it should in theory be easier for us to transition those lads.

Something that irritated me about that final is we were a little too kind to them on the pitch. Cork physically bullied them. We could have but chose not to for some reason."
That last line is the largest part of our problems since the 90s. Not just that game. At all levels.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 14:25:12    2591588

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree about the last part. But it's how to get the players to think that way is the problem.
Just out of interest what year was the last one you genuinely believed we might win the AI before the championship started? For me it was probably 2001. Since 2006 I genuinely believed every year that we wouldn't.
That's not even being truly competitive or slightly competitive, but rather the exact opposite."
That's a really difficult question to answer. If I'm being honest with myself I'd say 1998. I thought we were certain to win it. The bicentennial just felt like it was written in the stars.

Beyond that I thought we had a shot in 04 but only after winning Leinster.

Same in 19. It was only after winning Leinster that I thought we had a shot and I'm still sore over it.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3416 - 17/02/2025 14:46:22    2591597

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Replying To Viking66:  "I was including the 76 and 77 finals in the only era we were truly competitive in, that's why I said early/mid 50s til early mid 70s. We weren't really competitive in the 80s for an AI, we didn't even win a Provincial title. I did say we were sort of competitive in the early mid 90s, but that's different to being TRULY competitive.
I'm one of the kings of rose tinted glasses and being positive, but even I'd see that we haven't been competitive this millennium, truly or even half competitive.
Every year since the early 90s I've hoped at the start of the year we might win an AI. I haven't had the important feeling that goes with it since 99, the deep down belief that we could win it that year in any year."
The problem with that "truly competitive" definition there's nobody outside the big 3.

You could even say Cork and Tipp have gone through stages of not being competitive which I don't really believe to be the case. Even when they aren't going well they always produce players or are winning something's at some level.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3416 - 17/02/2025 14:48:03    2591598

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Replying To OpenStandWall:  "Given the way things are going - would anyone else here feel we are going to be leap frogged by Offaly in the next 3-5 years when most of their current u20s or ones from last two years get to grips with senior inter county?"
Tbf, they only beat us by two points two years ago and our U20 team the year before were unlucky to lose to KK who subsequently won the AI so while Offaly have produced a great crop, it's not as if we've been producing poor crops at the same time

Also, one swallow does not make a summer and one golden crop does not make a great team, Offaly are going to need more players to come through outside of this current crop

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 398 - 17/02/2025 15:43:42    2591609

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "That's a really difficult question to answer. If I'm being honest with myself I'd say 1998. I thought we were certain to win it. The bicentennial just felt like it was written in the stars.

Beyond that I thought we had a shot in 04 but only after winning Leinster.

Same in 19. It was only after winning Leinster that I thought we had a shot and I'm still sore over it."
Yes for sure after beating Kilkenny in the LSF in 04 I thought we might win it out. Or at least had a chance.
03 was just a roller coaster. It was hard to know what would happen next.
I don't think I had the same feeling in 19 until halftime against Tipp. And yes, me too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 15:58:46    2591616

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "The problem with that "truly competitive" definition there's nobody outside the big 3.

You could even say Cork and Tipp have gone through stages of not being competitive which I don't really believe to be the case. Even when they aren't going well they always produce players or are winning something's at some level."
Even though Cork haven't won an AI in 20 odd years they still believe every winter that "next year will be our year". They've won Provincial titles in that time, and have reached AI finals. We are now comfortably into our 2nd longest AI final drought ever, 29 years and counting, and in another 4 years we will equal our longest. Just for information our 3rd longest AI final drought was 19 years between 1977 and 1996, and our fourth longest was only 11 years, between 1899 and 1910.
The 1 AI final we have reached in 48 years and counting is worse than any other 48 year period in our history.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 16:11:30    2591622

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Replying To Viking66:  "Even though Cork haven't won an AI in 20 odd years they still believe every winter that "next year will be our year". They've won Provincial titles in that time, and have reached AI finals. We are now comfortably into our 2nd longest AI final drought ever, 29 years and counting, and in another 4 years we will equal our longest. Just for information our 3rd longest AI final drought was 19 years between 1977 and 1996, and our fourth longest was only 11 years, between 1899 and 1910.
The 1 AI final we have reached in 48 years and counting is worse than any other 48 year period in our history."
Not 20 odd years for Cork. Exactly 20 years since 2005 victory over Galway. Kilkenny are ten years since last All Ireland win in 2015 so the superpowers are having to wait.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2324 - 17/02/2025 16:41:22    2591625

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Replying To endgame:  "Not 20 odd years for Cork. Exactly 20 years since 2005 victory over Galway. Kilkenny are ten years since last All Ireland win in 2015 so the superpowers are having to wait."
In that time both have been reasonably competitive most years though. Kilkenny have reached 4 AI finals in the last 10 years, and Cork have reached 4 also, and a replay, since they last won one.
Cork have reached 7 Munster finals winning 5 in the last 19 years, while Kilkenny have reached 8 of the 9 Leinster finals since they last won an AI, winning 6 of them.
That's being competitive. Very different to us. We can be competitive in a game. It's a very different thing.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 18:25:32    2591651

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "That's a really difficult question to answer. If I'm being honest with myself I'd say 1998. I thought we were certain to win it. The bicentennial just felt like it was written in the stars.

Beyond that I thought we had a shot in 04 but only after winning Leinster.

Same in 19. It was only after winning Leinster that I thought we had a shot and I'm still sore over it."
2019 after Chins goal for about 5 mins until the wheels fell off was the only time in my lifetime it felt like a real possibility in 22 years following, Galway and Limerick had their turns the previous 2 years and that was going to be ours. I thought that was our chance to go beat KK and put all the hammerings in the previous 15 years to bed.

Doesn't work like that unfortunately and hate bringing it up, will always hurt more than the joy winning Leinster brought.

OpenStandWall (Wexford) - Posts: 207 - 17/02/2025 20:24:14    2591662

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Replying To Viking66:  "In that time both have been reasonably competitive most years though. Kilkenny have reached 4 AI finals in the last 10 years, and Cork have reached 4 also, and a replay, since they last won one.
Cork have reached 7 Munster finals winning 5 in the last 19 years, while Kilkenny have reached 8 of the 9 Leinster finals since they last won an AI, winning 6 of them.
That's being competitive. Very different to us. We can be competitive in a game. It's a very different thing."
Yes I agree with that. My point is that one wouldn't have expected two of the superpowers of hurling to go 20 years and 10 years without an All Ireland title. I like Wexford but hard to be optimistic for them.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2324 - 17/02/2025 20:41:38    2591667

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Replying To endgame:  "Yes I agree with that. My point is that one wouldn't have expected two of the superpowers of hurling to go 20 years and 10 years without an All Ireland title. I like Wexford but hard to be optimistic for them."
I'm not overly optimistic for this year, especially as regards the League, but I still think when or if we get lads like Chin, Rory, Ryan, the 2 Recks, Dwyer, Kevin Foley, Jacko, maybe even Dunbar and Dooley, back up to speed, and if a few of the young lads improve with the good gametime they are getting in the League, we still might make a Leinster Final. That seems a pretty low bar right now it has to be said. Having seen Kilkenny and Galway a couple of times neither are streets ahead of us right now, and they both have most of their best players playing, which we dont. Hard to know what Dublin will be at, but Ive a feeling they will be pretty good, maybe even win it. Offaly are going well but again have most of their best players playing with the exception of Conneeley, Cahill, Kiely and maybe Screeney. Antrim will be dogged again, and much better than they showed in the League game in Tullamore, but I think the fixtures fell better for them last year as regards their home games.
If we can get good gametime into the number of 21 and 22 year olds we have in the panel that narrowly lost u20 Leinster finals, and if a few of them can show over the next year or 2 in the League and Championship that they can make the jump up to Senior and be good not average players at that level I'd be happy enough even if we get relegated in the League, which might be a blessing in disguise for next year for the younger players, once they can improve their speed, touch and intensity and get promoted again.
As usual with us there's alot of ifs, buts and maybes there just after the start of the season. And likely these will be followed by the usual wouldas, couldas, and shouldas at the end of the season.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 21:26:19    2591674

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Replying To endgame:  "Yes I agree with that. My point is that one wouldn't have expected two of the superpowers of hurling to go 20 years and 10 years without an All Ireland title. I like Wexford but hard to be optimistic for them."
Also it won't be 20 years and 10 years if 1 of them win it this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15047 - 17/02/2025 21:30:44    2591675

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Tbf, they only beat us by two points two years ago and our U20 team the year before were unlucky to lose to KK who subsequently won the AI so while Offaly have produced a great crop, it's not as if we've been producing poor crops at the same time

Also, one swallow does not make a summer and one golden crop does not make a great team, Offaly are going to need more players to come through outside of this current crop"
Offaly also have about half the population we have. Football still reasonably strong there too. Going to need a run of strong underage teams and need to stay up in the top division. But they are a better bet to stay up and compete than Antrim (awful underage results), Westmeath or Carlow. Carlow are maximising what they have but it's not sustainable either really.

We have no excuse, 60k more living in the county than KK, 40k more than Clare, division 4 football is not exactly pulling players away from hurling, the local soccer scene is a decent level but not that strong.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 368 - 17/02/2025 22:35:42    2591690

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