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Wexford Club Hurling Championship.

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Replying To Viking66:  "Is giving 3 hurling teams a better chance in Leinster really good enough grounds for keeping the format we adopted this year though? In every other way it was a disaster compared to the split season."
Are you really advocating for a return to the split season, that at least 80% of clubs voted against last year, including probably your own?

To me, the reason for little interest in the early rounds of the hurling group stage this year was the knowledge that everybody would be going through anyway. It wasn't that the hurling was being interspersed with football.

And although some people might take issue with this statement, the stark reality is that there's only ever limited interest in the group stage of the football anyway.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 02/12/2024 13:38:58    2582038

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Replying To Viking66:  "Is giving 3 hurling teams a better chance in Leinster really good enough grounds for keeping the format we adopted this year though? In every other way it was a disaster compared to the split season."
I disagree playing spreading both hurling and football championship from July to November will only improve the standard of our games in the county. Playing it over 2 months is not the way forward

Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 367 - 02/12/2024 14:00:54    2582044

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Are you really advocating for a return to the split season, that at least 80% of clubs voted against last year, including probably your own?

To me, the reason for little interest in the early rounds of the hurling group stage this year was the knowledge that everybody would be going through anyway. It wasn't that the hurling was being interspersed with football.

And although some people might take issue with this statement, the stark reality is that there's only ever limited interest in the group stage of the football anyway."
I think it was even more than 80% from memory. It was fairly unanimous and I haven't heard a single person wanting a return to the split season.

But you're right on the group stage of the hurling this year, it was a disaster really, I had heard talk of ccc advocating it didn't remain in place for 2025

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1430 - 02/12/2024 15:39:00    2582066

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Replying To Afinestick96:  "I disagree playing spreading both hurling and football championship from July to November will only improve the standard of our games in the county. Playing it over 2 months is not the way forward"
Maybe play football championship in April & May and hurling champinship from July -October?

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 730 - 02/12/2024 16:03:47    2582067

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Are you really advocating for a return to the split season, that at least 80% of clubs voted against last year, including probably your own?

To me, the reason for little interest in the early rounds of the hurling group stage this year was the knowledge that everybody would be going through anyway. It wasn't that the hurling was being interspersed with football.

And although some people might take issue with this statement, the stark reality is that there's only ever limited interest in the group stage of the football anyway."
I disagree. We have a motion in for the return of the split season. Standard of hurling was pretty poor up to and including the Senior final this year. That's not down to everyone going through. It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks.
Lack of coverage/interest was reminiscent of games in April back in the day. The finals were so far off noone really cared.
2 of the worst standard Senior club hurling games I've ever attended in any county were this year, and were here in Wexford.
And others were so badly affected by the weather, which usually is noticeably worse later in the year, that they were a joke. Senior semifinals especially, but Oulart Rapps was also pretty bleak. This affected attendances also.
The main problem with dwindling interest from the public in club football games in the county is that the game itself countrywide turned into such a poor watch. Hopefully the new rule changes being introduced from next year will improve things, and increase attendances. Certainly if the split season returns more clubs here will take the Football championship more seriously, as was the case when it was in before.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 02/12/2024 16:19:18    2582070

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Replying To Afinestick96:  "I disagree playing spreading both hurling and football championship from July to November will only improve the standard of our games in the county. Playing it over 2 months is not the way forward"
How will it improve the standard spreading each out for longer but at the same time keeping the overall time the same? Most players in the county aren't doing any more hurling or football than they were before, they're just hopping backwards and forwards between the 2 codes now. And the 2 games are completely different, different skills needed.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 02/12/2024 16:34:32    2582074

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Replying To countyman2022:  "Maybe play football championship in April & May and hurling champinship from July -October?"
That's what they do in Kilkenny. But then the clubs would be without their intercounty hurlers and footballers for the Football Championship.
It's not as much of an issue in Kilkenny as most of their intercounty hurlers don't play top level club Football, and their intercounty footballers aren't tied up with intercounty League and Championship games to the same extent.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 02/12/2024 16:37:14    2582077

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Replying To Viking66:  "How will it improve the standard spreading each out for longer but at the same time keeping the overall time the same? Most players in the county aren't doing any more hurling or football than they were before, they're just hopping backwards and forwards between the 2 codes now. And the 2 games are completely different, different skills needed."
Most dual clubs have a preference towards hurling therefore end up training more hurling than football. With the season spread out this means lads get more training under their belt. More time quality training results in better players and therefore should improve the standard in Wexford.

Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 367 - 02/12/2024 17:05:48    2582083

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Replying To Afinestick96:  "Most dual clubs have a preference towards hurling therefore end up training more hurling than football. With the season spread out this means lads get more training under their belt. More time quality training results in better players and therefore should improve the standard in Wexford."
But the season isn't spread out. It's played off in the same time frame. It's just the order of games is changed. Most clubs I know of trained pretty much the same for both. If anything there was less hurling training done than before, as when the split season was in clubs put way more emphasis on hurling than football in the 6-8 weeks before championship started, whereas this year there was closer to a 50/50 split.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 02/12/2024 17:23:55    2582084

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Replying To Viking66:  "I disagree. We have a motion in for the return of the split season. Standard of hurling was pretty poor up to and including the Senior final this year. That's not down to everyone going through. It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks.
Lack of coverage/interest was reminiscent of games in April back in the day. The finals were so far off noone really cared.
2 of the worst standard Senior club hurling games I've ever attended in any county were this year, and were here in Wexford.
And others were so badly affected by the weather, which usually is noticeably worse later in the year, that they were a joke. Senior semifinals especially, but Oulart Rapps was also pretty bleak. This affected attendances also.
The main problem with dwindling interest from the public in club football games in the county is that the game itself countrywide turned into such a poor watch. Hopefully the new rule changes being introduced from next year will improve things, and increase attendances. Certainly if the split season returns more clubs here will take the Football championship more seriously, as was the case when it was in before."
The lack of coverage was probably a result of the format. Loads of games that didn't really matter so why would media or supporters bother. There is no way that switching sports after every 2 weeks helps the standard of games either. A run through this thread would suggest very few outside the current county panel stood out which is worrying. Three strong winners, Rathnure certainly will be much stronger next year at senior than they have been for many years. Cloughbawn very unfortunate again to drop.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 303 - 02/12/2024 17:43:28    2582089

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Replying To Viking66:  "I disagree. We have a motion in for the return of the split season. Standard of hurling was pretty poor up to and including the Senior final this year. That's not down to everyone going through. It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks.
Lack of coverage/interest was reminiscent of games in April back in the day. The finals were so far off noone really cared.
2 of the worst standard Senior club hurling games I've ever attended in any county were this year, and were here in Wexford.
And others were so badly affected by the weather, which usually is noticeably worse later in the year, that they were a joke. Senior semifinals especially, but Oulart Rapps was also pretty bleak. This affected attendances also.
The main problem with dwindling interest from the public in club football games in the county is that the game itself countrywide turned into such a poor watch. Hopefully the new rule changes being introduced from next year will improve things, and increase attendances. Certainly if the split season returns more clubs here will take the Football championship more seriously, as was the case when it was in before."
"It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks."

This is an absolutely wild take.

Last year lots of people were saying that the championship is condensed too much resulting in our top hurlers not hurling at a high enough level for long enough with the knock on effect that our club championship winners go in cold to the provincial series. Fast forward to 2024 and now the problem is teams aren't getting a long enough continuous spell hurling. So which is it?

I think the hurling championship structure needs to change if people are that concerned with the standard from a spectator perspective. How can the majority of games be of a good standard when the result is inconsequential? Any championship structure where you can lose more games than what it takes to win the championship is non sensical.

As far as the championship structure impacting on the county team, I think people are way over stating the link. By and large (not saying it never happens, Brian Fenton the obvious exception) I think that if a player isn't at county level when he gets to adult grades, its not as if he's suddenly going to get to that standard because of the structure of his club championship. I think if we want to significantly raise Wexfords ambitions in relation to contending for Leinsters/All Irelands then the majority of that will come from developing youth as opposed to picking out the odd player who stands out at club level.

cheeseballlyons (Wexford) - Posts: 4 - 03/12/2024 13:01:25    2582178

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Replying To Viking66:  "I disagree. We have a motion in for the return of the split season. Standard of hurling was pretty poor up to and including the Senior final this year. That's not down to everyone going through. It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks.
Lack of coverage/interest was reminiscent of games in April back in the day. The finals were so far off noone really cared.
2 of the worst standard Senior club hurling games I've ever attended in any county were this year, and were here in Wexford.
And others were so badly affected by the weather, which usually is noticeably worse later in the year, that they were a joke. Senior semifinals especially, but Oulart Rapps was also pretty bleak. This affected attendances also.
The main problem with dwindling interest from the public in club football games in the county is that the game itself countrywide turned into such a poor watch. Hopefully the new rule changes being introduced from next year will improve things, and increase attendances. Certainly if the split season returns more clubs here will take the Football championship more seriously, as was the case when it was in before."
Sorry I hope this dosent pass. It was dreadful, competition over in two months. As stated clubs will concentrate on one code or the other so by playing it quickly wont help. At least when it is played over a few months, it made the competition more interesting. I'm sorry but I couldnt see much support for a return to the split season, I know our club definitely wouldnt be in favour.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 447 - 03/12/2024 13:12:25    2582179

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I'd expect only very little support either for a motion that calls for a return to the split season.

And I think Viking is wrong in what he claims about players downing the hurls for weeks at a time, every couple of weeks.

Might be the case in his club, which is traditionally more associated with football. But definitely not the case in mine, where we have a clear preference for hurling.

Even in a 'football week' this year, if there were two training sessions, then the first one was all hurling and the second one was probably 75% hurling. And I know of many other clubs doing something the same.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 03/12/2024 13:50:51    2582185

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Replying To cheeseballlyons:  ""It's down to 90 plus percent of our club players in this county downing hurls for 2 weeks every 2 weeks."

This is an absolutely wild take.

Last year lots of people were saying that the championship is condensed too much resulting in our top hurlers not hurling at a high enough level for long enough with the knock on effect that our club championship winners go in cold to the provincial series. Fast forward to 2024 and now the problem is teams aren't getting a long enough continuous spell hurling. So which is it?

I think the hurling championship structure needs to change if people are that concerned with the standard from a spectator perspective. How can the majority of games be of a good standard when the result is inconsequential? Any championship structure where you can lose more games than what it takes to win the championship is non sensical.

As far as the championship structure impacting on the county team, I think people are way over stating the link. By and large (not saying it never happens, Brian Fenton the obvious exception) I think that if a player isn't at county level when he gets to adult grades, its not as if he's suddenly going to get to that standard because of the structure of his club championship. I think if we want to significantly raise Wexfords ambitions in relation to contending for Leinsters/All Irelands then the majority of that will come from developing youth as opposed to picking out the odd player who stands out at club level."
Agree 100% that to improve our intercounty prospects we have to develop our underage players. Said exactly that numerous times on this forum over the last good few years.
Also I never said last year that the hurling championship was too condensed. Think you are mixing me up with someone else. The current system would be fine if the Football Championship was played at another time of year, so that lads were just hurling as they are in a similar structure up the road in Kilkenny. But there is no other time of year to play the club Football championship. There is no ideal solution tbh.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 03/12/2024 14:01:36    2582189

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "Sorry I hope this dosent pass. It was dreadful, competition over in two months. As stated clubs will concentrate on one code or the other so by playing it quickly wont help. At least when it is played over a few months, it made the competition more interesting. I'm sorry but I couldnt see much support for a return to the split season, I know our club definitely wouldnt be in favour."
Do the same 15 odd lads play 1st team Football and Hurling for your club? And are your 1st teams at the same grade, or at least within a grade of eachother?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 03/12/2024 14:03:17    2582190

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I'd expect only very little support either for a motion that calls for a return to the split season.

And I think Viking is wrong in what he claims about players downing the hurls for weeks at a time, every couple of weeks.

Might be the case in his club, which is traditionally more associated with football. But definitely not the case in mine, where we have a clear preference for hurling.

Even in a 'football week' this year, if there were two training sessions, then the first one was all hurling and the second one was probably 75% hurling. And I know of many other clubs doing something the same."
Yours is really a hurling club then, not a dual one.
While it's true we are seen to be more of a Football club, we have won Senior Football titles but not hurling ones, and we had an ex-player inducted into the Football Hall of Fame in Croke Park this year, at the same time our most successful intercounty player ever was a hurler, and in the recent past we have had players on the Intercounty Hurling panel, but not the Football one. We probably have more players currently with underage intercounty Hurling experience than underage intercounty Football experience, and our current side would be backboned by the lads who represented the county at Hurling at Feile. Also in the 2 years previous to this one we went further in the hurling championship than we did in the football one. So we wouldn't consider ourselves a Football club, but rather a real dual one.
And we trained accordingly.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13988 - 03/12/2024 14:27:06    2582197

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yours is really a hurling club then, not a dual one.
While it's true we are seen to be more of a Football club, we have won Senior Football titles but not hurling ones, and we had an ex-player inducted into the Football Hall of Fame in Croke Park this year, at the same time our most successful intercounty player ever was a hurler, and in the recent past we have had players on the Intercounty Hurling panel, but not the Football one. We probably have more players currently with underage intercounty Hurling experience than underage intercounty Football experience, and our current side would be backboned by the lads who represented the county at Hurling at Feile. Also in the 2 years previous to this one we went further in the hurling championship than we did in the football one. So we wouldn't consider ourselves a Football club, but rather a real dual one.
And we trained accordingly."
What you say about my own club depends on how you spin it. We're a dual club in that we play both codes, and just about every player lines out in both. But we're also a "hurling club" in that it's by far our preferred code.

It's much like how Wexford is a dual county in many ways, but also a "hurling county", in that hurling is probably the preference of most players and is definitely by far the preference of the general public.

And sorry about this next bit, but it has to be said....

Look where your approach got you this year. Relegated from Intermediate Hurling, and only avoiding the Relegation Final in Intermediate Football by virtue of winning your last group game against another team who'd lost every match up to that point. That one was basically a relegation semi-final.

Maybe focussing more on one or the other would get you better results in that one. It's really only a handful of clubs who can serve both masters and be competitive at a high level in both. Generally speaking, smaller clubs like yours or mine need to concentrate more on one or the other if they're to hold their own at senior level, or even get to senior in the first place.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2629 - 03/12/2024 15:26:01    2582211

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