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Replying To Viking66: "Do the same 15 odd lads play 1st team Football and Hurling for your club? And are your 1st teams at the same grade, or at least within a grade of eachother?" Mostly the same players but like most smaller clubs like yourselves they pick hurling over football or one grade over the other. As Pikeman said, with smaller number unfortunately we are never going to be able to fully compete at football and hurling so hurling is given preference 75% of the time which is fine. Players like playing both but at the end of the day to be competitive you have to prioritize one over the other. Unless you are like the Shels etc with massive numbers.
While in theory it is great playing it in one block, if someone gets injured thats it, they wont be back in time. The competition is over just too quick, I really cant see much support for returning.
Regarding yourselves next year. If you get half the players back next year that were missing, you would be well able to bounce back up after seeing a few games in inter a this year. Teams that come up are able to compete but do struggle to stay up.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 451 - 04/12/2024 13:30:25
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Replying To alwaysasub: "Mostly the same players but like most smaller clubs like yourselves they pick hurling over football or one grade over the other. As Pikeman said, with smaller number unfortunately we are never going to be able to fully compete at football and hurling so hurling is given preference 75% of the time which is fine. Players like playing both but at the end of the day to be competitive you have to prioritize one over the other. Unless you are like the Shels etc with massive numbers.
While in theory it is great playing it in one block, if someone gets injured thats it, they wont be back in time. The competition is over just too quick, I really cant see much support for returning.
Regarding yourselves next year. If you get half the players back next year that were missing, you would be well able to bounce back up after seeing a few games in inter a this year. Teams that come up are able to compete but do struggle to stay up." Most importantly we need a good outside manager. Secondly we need to have even average luck with injuries. I think some of the lads travelling will be back, but probably not all of them. If we have near enough a full panel our level is probably Intermediate Semifinal/Final, as we were the last 2 years before this one. But at the same time I know Intermediate A is a dogfight. We could end up staying there, it's one of the real issues I've always had with 1 up 1 down, there are teams just staying up and just staying up every year, and others reaching numerous finals but losing them and not getting promoted to where they perhaps should be based on the players they have, but that's an argument for another day. I think in general in Wexford the top 4 in each grade are of a pretty similar standard to the bottom 4 in the grade above them.
As regards Intermediate none of the teams who have come up in recent years have been relegated, and none of the teams that have won it in recent have come back down until Cloughbawn did this year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 04/12/2024 14:13:58
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Replying To alwaysasub: "Mostly the same players but like most smaller clubs like yourselves they pick hurling over football or one grade over the other. As Pikeman said, with smaller number unfortunately we are never going to be able to fully compete at football and hurling so hurling is given preference 75% of the time which is fine. Players like playing both but at the end of the day to be competitive you have to prioritize one over the other. Unless you are like the Shels etc with massive numbers.
While in theory it is great playing it in one block, if someone gets injured thats it, they wont be back in time. The competition is over just too quick, I really cant see much support for returning.
Regarding yourselves next year. If you get half the players back next year that were missing, you would be well able to bounce back up after seeing a few games in inter a this year. Teams that come up are able to compete but do struggle to stay up." Most importantly we need a good outside manager. Secondly we need to have even average luck with injuries. I think some of the lads travelling will be back, but probably not all of them. If we have near enough a full panel our level is probably Intermediate Semifinal/Final, as we were the last 2 years before this one. But at the same time I know Intermediate A is a dogfight. We could end up staying there, it's one of the real issues I've always had with 1 up 1 down, there are teams just staying up and just staying up every year, and others reaching numerous finals but losing them and not getting promoted to where they perhaps should be based on the players they have, but that's an argument for another day. I think in general in Wexford the top 4 in each grade are of a pretty similar standard to the bottom 4 in the grade above them.
As regards Intermediate none of the teams who have come up in recent years have been relegated, and none of the teams that have won it in recent years have come back down until Cloughbawn did this year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 04/12/2024 14:16:48
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Many clubs changing managements for next year or on the look out ?
BacksAndForwards (Wexford) - Posts: 36 - 09/12/2024 13:00:52
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I see a club motion from Clontarf GAA that county inter county players have to play at least 4 club games with their club during the championship year was passed at the Dublin AGM.
I myself quite like the idea, there is I feel a growing disconnect between county and club where as a county player might not be seen near a club until championships. I think the ratio for trainings etc with county teams is way too high when they could be playing a club match that weekend etc. I would be in favour of it? Might make the league more interesting. Interested to hear other peoples thoughts? I know 4 games might be a lot but even three games. There is a caveat if a player is injured he dosent have to play but I think its a good step inn the right direction.
They also point out about club development squads that players arent training with clubs etc for those either.
Is it too late to propose this in Januarys meeting?
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 451 - 10/12/2024 15:17:34
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Sorry I should add in this also:
Clontarf envisage an early season 14-week block for inter-county league hurling and football played on alternate weekends with players released back to their clubs on weekends that their counties are not playing.
Phase two would be a four-week break between the league and the championship where two club championship games could potentially be played and players train with their clubs.
A 'three-month' championship window then opens that allows for exclusive access to players for county teams. And finally a six-week period where the county championships are completed.
It would essentially mean a return to September All-Ireland finals.
Clontarf say the only way it can work is "by rule, not persuasion" but feel it would "restore the core principle of club as the centre of the GAA (and) bring back what is unique in the GAA."
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 451 - 10/12/2024 15:18:55
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Replying To alwaysasub: "Sorry I should add in this also:
Clontarf envisage an early season 14-week block for inter-county league hurling and football played on alternate weekends with players released back to their clubs on weekends that their counties are not playing.
Phase two would be a four-week break between the league and the championship where two club championship games could potentially be played and players train with their clubs.
A 'three-month' championship window then opens that allows for exclusive access to players for county teams. And finally a six-week period where the county championships are completed.
It would essentially mean a return to September All-Ireland finals.
Clontarf say the only way it can work is "by rule, not persuasion" but feel it would "restore the core principle of club as the centre of the GAA (and) bring back what is unique in the GAA."" That wouldn't work here because almost all our players are dual. Our championship takes 16 weeks, not 8.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 10/12/2024 16:06:25
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To alwaysasub: "Sorry I should add in this also:
Clontarf envisage an early season 14-week block for inter-county league hurling and football played on alternate weekends with players released back to their clubs on weekends that their counties are not playing.
Phase two would be a four-week break between the league and the championship where two club championship games could potentially be played and players train with their clubs.
A 'three-month' championship window then opens that allows for exclusive access to players for county teams. And finally a six-week period where the county championships are completed.
It would essentially mean a return to September All-Ireland finals.
Clontarf say the only way it can work is "by rule, not persuasion" but feel it would "restore the core principle of club as the centre of the GAA (and) bring back what is unique in the GAA."" That wouldn't work here because almost all our players are dual. Our championship takes 16 weeks, not 8."
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 451 - 11/12/2024 19:41:30
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If hypothetically a number of 4G pitches and a Bekan type facility were built in Wexford would you support a football championship in late October, November and December with the county champions representing Wexford in Leinster the following year?
So this year Castletown won it, they would represent Wexford in Leinster next year.
It would take pressure off the fixture calendar. Frees up weekends for break weeks (Eelectric Picnic etc) and to give players and bodies a chance to heal before knock-out.
Clubs can properly put a real effort in to football for the late Autumn and Winter, rather than current half baked effort
It would be better than the rush-job at present to get finished in time at the expense of player welfare.
From 12pm - 8pm you could have 5 matches on a Saturday, 5 on a Sunday, on each pitch. 2-3 pitches might be enough. Big money, but imagine a football championship in Bekan facility would be a crowd pleaser. Wexford can rightly argue that they are trying to promote both games and the GAA need to support this endeavour with facilities.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1264 - 11/12/2024 21:24:09
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "If hypothetically a number of 4G pitches and a Bekan type facility were built in Wexford would you support a football championship in late October, November and December with the county champions representing Wexford in Leinster the following year?
So this year Castletown won it, they would represent Wexford in Leinster next year.
It would take pressure off the fixture calendar. Frees up weekends for break weeks (Eelectric Picnic etc) and to give players and bodies a chance to heal before knock-out.
Clubs can properly put a real effort in to football for the late Autumn and Winter, rather than current half baked effort
It would be better than the rush-job at present to get finished in time at the expense of player welfare.
From 12pm - 8pm you could have 5 matches on a Saturday, 5 on a Sunday, on each pitch. 2-3 pitches might be enough. Big money, but imagine a football championship in Bekan facility would be a crowd pleaser. Wexford can rightly argue that they are trying to promote both games and the GAA need to support this endeavour with facilities." No!
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 12/12/2024 09:18:10
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Replying To tearintom: "No!" Why not? I can tell you this much, in my club football would be taken more seriously if it was not linked in with the hurling. At the moment, its very much an after-thought. If it had a proper season, on good pitches, it might be taken more seriously?
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1788 - 12/12/2024 13:18:38
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Why not? I can tell you this much, in my club football would be taken more seriously if it was not linked in with the hurling. At the moment, its very much an after-thought. If it had a proper season, on good pitches, it might be taken more seriously?" Because as far as I'm aware you can't propose last years champions to play in this years Provincial Club Championships before you get the other issues.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 12/12/2024 13:55:22
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Replying To tearintom: "Because as far as I'm aware you can't propose last years champions to play in this years Provincial Club Championships before you get the other issues." And you're 100% right on that. If Castletown didn't win our 2024 championship until December after a championship played in some sort of dome or on 4G pitches, they couldn't go forward to play in the 2025 Leinster Championship.
Only our 2025 Wexford champions could play in 2025 Leinster Championship, and our 2025 club championship wouldn't be finished in time for that then either.
It's a ridiculous idea anyway, when you tease it through. Our football championships from Senior down to Junior 'A' involve 30 matches in each round. Even at a rate of five per day in a venue, that means you'd need at least three dome or 4G pitch venues, and you'd be playing matches at something like 12 noon, 2 p.m., 4 p.m., 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. in each of them, every single Saturday & Sunday during the group stage.
Even just thinking of stewards and gate people - they'd be needed at three different venues every Saturday & Sunday from 10.30 a.m. (or even before), right through to 10 p.m. or later at night.
It's a crazy idea put forward by somebody who I'd say has no idea of what it would take from an organisational point of view.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 12/12/2024 20:19:16
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Replying To Pikeman96: "And you're 100% right on that. If Castletown didn't win our 2024 championship until December after a championship played in some sort of dome or on 4G pitches, they couldn't go forward to play in the 2025 Leinster Championship.
Only our 2025 Wexford champions could play in 2025 Leinster Championship, and our 2025 club championship wouldn't be finished in time for that then either.
It's a ridiculous idea anyway, when you tease it through. Our football championships from Senior down to Junior 'A' involve 30 matches in each round. Even at a rate of five per day in a venue, that means you'd need at least three dome or 4G pitch venues, and you'd be playing matches at something like 12 noon, 2 p.m., 4 p.m., 6 p.m. and 8 p.m. in each of them, every single Saturday & Sunday during the group stage.
Even just thinking of stewards and gate people - they'd be needed at three different venues every Saturday & Sunday from 10.30 a.m. (or even before), right through to 10 p.m. or later at night.
It's a crazy idea put forward by somebody who I'd say has no idea of what it would take from an organisational point of view." Ah yes. But this is a forum, a discussion area. It's not a policy making body. If you can't air crazy ideas here to see how they go down, where can you?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 12/12/2024 22:51:46
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Replying To Viking66: "Ah yes. But this is a forum, a discussion area. It's not a policy making body. If you can't air crazy ideas here to see how they go down, where can you?" Point taken. But at least you seem to agree it's a crazy idea :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 13/12/2024 09:23:05
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On another note - think there's further evidence this week of just how problematic the U21 competitions are.
I see Declan Ruth giving out in the paper about Rathnure having to play their U21 semi-final last weekend. Says it was unfair on the couple of lads lining out who are also playing with the intermediates, and that another week should have been found to play it.
The question is - when? The quarter-finals of that competition were played at the end of August. Buffers Alley and Oulart played the other semi-final on November 9. The Rathnure v Shels semi-final was held up until December 8 because of the Rathnure intermediates.
If it hadn't gone ahead last weekend, earliest it could take place would be weekend of December 21/22, but if Rathnure happen to win their intermediate semi-final this coming weekend, 'Skippy' probably still wouldn't be happy with the U21s playing a week later anyway, and then possibly an U21 final too, in the run-up to an All-Ireland Intermediate Final in the middle of January.
There are paralells here with the arguments over letting second-year minors play in the adult grades. What you basically have here is an entire championship being held up for the sake of just two lads from just one club. Imagine the fixtures chaos there'd be if entire minor championships were held up too, for the sake of one or two lads from one of the clubs still involved lining out with their club's adult side.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 13/12/2024 10:26:03
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Point taken. But at least you seem to agree it's a crazy idea :)" It's pretty far out, even by my standards :-D
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 13/12/2024 10:36:57
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Replying To Pikeman96: "On another note - think there's further evidence this week of just how problematic the U21 competitions are.
I see Declan Ruth giving out in the paper about Rathnure having to play their U21 semi-final last weekend. Says it was unfair on the couple of lads lining out who are also playing with the intermediates, and that another week should have been found to play it.
The question is - when? The quarter-finals of that competition were played at the end of August. Buffers Alley and Oulart played the other semi-final on November 9. The Rathnure v Shels semi-final was held up until December 8 because of the Rathnure intermediates.
If it hadn't gone ahead last weekend, earliest it could take place would be weekend of December 21/22, but if Rathnure happen to win their intermediate semi-final this coming weekend, 'Skippy' probably still wouldn't be happy with the U21s playing a week later anyway, and then possibly an U21 final too, in the run-up to an All-Ireland Intermediate Final in the middle of January.
There are paralells here with the arguments over letting second-year minors play in the adult grades. What you basically have here is an entire championship being held up for the sake of just two lads from just one club. Imagine the fixtures chaos there'd be if entire minor championships were held up too, for the sake of one or two lads from one of the clubs still involved lining out with their club's adult side." The U21 Football championship probably won't be completed before Xmas due to Liam Mellows involvement in Leinster. Shels are involved in the U21 hurling this weekend too so holding it up.
Though I always have sympathy with the fixtures committee you can see where Skippy's frustrations lie - I think there are 8 players involved with Rathnure Intermediate team that togged out last weekend for their U21 - Conor O Neill broke his thumb in Leinster Final so he was out. Rathnure definitely didn't need that game last weekend.
Did I see the U21 final is fixed a few days after Xmas - why not leave it to the first weekend of new year and let lads enjoy their break.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 13/12/2024 12:08:48
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Replying To MyOhMi: "The U21 Football championship probably won't be completed before Xmas due to Liam Mellows involvement in Leinster. Shels are involved in the U21 hurling this weekend too so holding it up.
Though I always have sympathy with the fixtures committee you can see where Skippy's frustrations lie - I think there are 8 players involved with Rathnure Intermediate team that togged out last weekend for their U21 - Conor O Neill broke his thumb in Leinster Final so he was out. Rathnure definitely didn't need that game last weekend.
Did I see the U21 final is fixed a few days after Xmas - why not leave it to the first weekend of new year and let lads enjoy their break." Yeah, Castletown are another example of how a championship at a younger age group can be held up by some of the players lining out at an older level.
Just to be clear I'm not blaming either themselves or Rathnure for the situation! Am just pointing out that's the way it is.
Their football semi-final v Shels is fixed for 22nd December, and yes, the final v Duffry Rovers is currently fixed for 28th December. But I believe the Duffry are looking for a postponement as they have some sort of other event that day, so the final is likely to go into January all right.
Either way, it all goes back to what I said at the start about the U21 grade being problematic. These are basically straight knock-out championships that only take four rounds of matches in hurling and four in football, and even still, it's a struggle to get them played in the calendar year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 13/12/2024 12:54:56
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It goes back to the same issue, too many games at adult level and bizarrely we had a situation where clubs voted for even more games this year than before which turned out to be a disaster emphasising the point I've been making for a long time that more games doesn't necessarily mean better.
It's very simple, if clubs want the u21 grade to be treated better (which it should imho as thr drop off from minor to adult is crippling clubs) and others want weekends off to attend a drinking session in Laois then the trade off is less games in championships, not pipe dreams of multiple domes to play games and jiggling of calendars or ignoring central gaa rules.
To be honest the more I look at it less games that actually mean more is the way to go.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1435 - 13/12/2024 13:50:31
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