HoganStand GAA Football and Hurling

National Forum

The State Of Hurling In 2024

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post

You need to Login to Post

Replying To ZUL10: " Replying To daveboy: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: ""I am hesitant to throw in the handpass into this discussion but I may as well throw it in while I am at it. What would people think about making it only possible to hand pass off the hurl? This would instantly eliminate a throw ball." mr305 (Galway) - Posts: 47 - 24/06/2024 11:44:35 What do you mean by 'hand pass off the hurl'? I can't see how it would eliminate a throw. I don't like seeing so many handpasses in hurling. Sometimes you can get a team moving the ball up the field with 2, 3 or even 4 consecutive handpasses. Especially when some/a lot of handpasses are actually throws. But it's difficult for the ref to judge. An idea that would reduce hand passes (but not eliminate a thrown ball). You can't make a handpass after you've received the ball from a handpass. Basically, a team can't make consecutive handpasses." The hand pass is a hugely important part of the modern game as teams are incredibly fit and because of that space is reduced and there is more engagement physically. You need players to be able to hand pass the ball when being tackled by at times 1 2 or 3 different opposition players. Without the handpass being allowed you'd end up with way more "rucks" and slowing the game down massively" Wouldn't agree at all. When there was little or no hand passing there were no rucks. Yes hand passing is a part of hurling but blatant throwing is not. And throwing has taken so much from the modern game. It has become the primary 'skill' where once it was as rare as overhead pulls are now. You dont need to hand pass the ball out of trouble, you need to avoid trouble, but if you dont see anything wrong with the throwing fest we have now then I dont expect you will be convinced otherwise."]"as rare as overhead pulls are now." I don't know what era you were watching but overhead pulls have always been rare. When the likes of Gerald McCarthy of Cork, Frank Cummins, Martin Quigley of Wexford, or Mossy Walsh of Waterford would pull one off once or twice every 5 years or so, the media back in the day would wax lyrical about it for the next decade. I have heard that Timmy Ryan of famed Ahane was the quintessential master of the craft, but how many of us are around since the 1930s? Don't be kidding yourself, or trying to hoodwink others into thinking that the overhead pull was once part and parcel of the game of hurling. It never was! foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 28/06/2024 02:13:54 2555300 Link
Replying To Doylerwex: "I'm not sure I agree with that. It will probably be a combination of Limerick dropping slightly, and another county having improved enough to meet them." Agree with that. Every dog has his day, as they say. Some team or teams will eventually surpass This great Limerick juggernaut. When is hard to say. They will quite rightly be regarded as one of the best teams ever to play the game. It doesn't seem likely now but even the current Dublin footballers will slip back. Supporters from counties outside Limerick and Dublin will say that it becomes boring and predictable and not good for the game to have them winning almost every year. That's true, unless of course you are from those winning counties. It's up to the chasing pack to up their game and devise tactics to beat the big two. It's great viewing teams like that. They deserve all that they have achieved and I take my hat off to them. Bottom line is though, nothing lasts forever. Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 386 - 28/06/2024 06:51:13 2555303 Link
Replying To Magpie2: "Agree with that. Every dog has his day, as they say. Some team or teams will eventually surpass This great Limerick juggernaut. When is hard to say. They will quite rightly be regarded as one of the best teams ever to play the game. It doesn't seem likely now but even the current Dublin footballers will slip back. Supporters from counties outside Limerick and Dublin will say that it becomes boring and predictable and not good for the game to have them winning almost every year. That's true, unless of course you are from those winning counties. It's up to the chasing pack to up their game and devise tactics to beat the big two. It's great viewing teams like that. They deserve all that they have achieved and I take my hat off to them. Bottom line is though, nothing lasts forever." Very good and generous summation Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 28/06/2024 07:46:44 2555306 Link
Replying To foreveryoung: " Replying To ZUL10: "[quote=daveboy: "[quote=Cockney_Cat: ""I am hesitant to throw in the handpass into this discussion but I may as well throw it in while I am at it. What would people think about making it only possible to hand pass off the hurl? This would instantly eliminate a throw ball." mr305 (Galway) - Posts: 47 - 24/06/2024 11:44:35 What do you mean by 'hand pass off the hurl'? I can't see how it would eliminate a throw. I don't like seeing so many handpasses in hurling. Sometimes you can get a team moving the ball up the field with 2, 3 or even 4 consecutive handpasses. Especially when some/a lot of handpasses are actually throws. But it's difficult for the ref to judge. An idea that would reduce hand passes (but not eliminate a thrown ball). You can't make a handpass after you've received the ball from a handpass. Basically, a team can't make consecutive handpasses." The hand pass is a hugely important part of the modern game as teams are incredibly fit and because of that space is reduced and there is more engagement physically. You need players to be able to hand pass the ball when being tackled by at times 1 2 or 3 different opposition players. Without the handpass being allowed you'd end up with way more "rucks" and slowing the game down massively" Wouldn't agree at all. When there was little or no hand passing there were no rucks. Yes hand passing is a part of hurling but blatant throwing is not. And throwing has taken so much from the modern game. It has become the primary 'skill' where once it was as rare as overhead pulls are now. You dont need to hand pass the ball out of trouble, you need to avoid trouble, but if you dont see anything wrong with the throwing fest we have now then I dont expect you will be convinced otherwise."]"as rare as overhead pulls are now." I don't know what era you were watching but overhead pulls have always been rare. When the likes of Gerald McCarthy of Cork, Frank Cummins, Martin Quigley of Wexford, or Mossy Walsh of Waterford would pull one off once or twice every 5 years or so, the media back in the day would wax lyrical about it for the next decade. I have heard that Timmy Ryan of famed Ahane was the quintessential master of the craft, but how many of us are around since the 1930s? Don't be kidding yourself, or trying to hoodwink others into thinking that the overhead pull was once part and parcel of the game of hurling. It never was!"]Your are right there and of course there was trucks too back in the day where did the word 'Schmozzle' , so beloved of Michael O'Hehir come from. And there was plenty ruks when KK were on top as well, only they won most of them . Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 28/06/2024 07:52:36 2555307 Link
I wouldn't be that worked up over handpass. As I said before, some of the focus has had to do with go be the wall ways of getting at Limerick. The one positive even from going back in my memory to 70s is that overt thuggery has been mostly taken out of the game. There was a time when lads like Screeney would have been terrorised with minimal protection. And worse, his tormentors lauded as some sort of hard men and heroes. A turning point in that for good and all was the reaction - not least by Ollie - to the shameful treatment of Joe Canning. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 28/06/2024 08:22:08 2555310 Link
Replying To Magpie2: "How many handpasses did they freeze on TV viking? 3 maybe 4?. If its as low as that then it's hardly definitive. As I and others have said, if a rule can not possibly be implemented accurately because of the reasons I gave in a previous post then the rule is quite simply unmanageable and therefore the handpass should be withdrawn. If not it will continue to be controversial and pundits will forever be analysing and freezing frames to determine whether it's a throw or a handpass. Maybe Ryan Dwyer exaggerated somewhat but I still believe the handpass is quite often not a handpass and referees are not able to accurately make a decision in this regard." I'd often pause the TV myself when watching the games back. There are legal handpasses being blown as throws, and vice versa. Must be very hard to officiate. Maybe they should legalise underhand throws below a certain distance and be done with it. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 28/06/2024 09:15:38 2555319 Link
Replying To Viking66: "I'd often pause the TV myself when watching the games back. There are legal handpasses being blown as throws, and vice versa. Must be very hard to officiate. Maybe they should legalise underhand throws below a certain distance and be done with it." Exactly. If its so hard to spot then what's the difference? People get annoyed over it here and on committees etc but crowds don't lose the plot over whether a hand pass is a throw or not because the difference is as you say almost impossible to detect and makes no difference really whether it is legal or not. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 28/06/2024 09:51:18 2555331 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "I wouldn't be that worked up over handpass. As I said before, some of the focus has had to do with go be the wall ways of getting at Limerick. The one positive even from going back in my memory to 70s is that overt thuggery has been mostly taken out of the game. There was a time when lads like Screeney would have been terrorised with minimal protection. And worse, his tormentors lauded as some sort of hard men and heroes. A turning point in that for good and all was the reaction - not least by Ollie - to the shameful treatment of Joe Canning." Yes the Canning Family were highly disgusted by the 'treatment' Joe got as a Youngster in a Galway. Then his own Team mate put him in Casaulty in 2020, with an absurdly wild tackle. Appaling stuff. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 28/06/2024 09:55:23 2555332 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Exactly. If its so hard to spot then what's the difference? People get annoyed over it here and on committees etc but crowds don't lose the plot over whether a hand pass is a throw or not because the difference is as you say almost impossible to detect and makes no difference really whether it is legal or not." It is not difficult to spot at all,that is just a cop out.A proper handpass is plain to see.The rest of the passes are throws..Are we trying to make out that the players are magicians ie the quickness of the hand deceives the eye.The refs and the authorities just ignore the problem and randomly blow the odd time to make out they are policing the problem.It is going to be hard now to eradicate the problem without totally changing the game because of the fact it has become an epidemic.Would banning the handpass completely be a bad thing,maybe in the short term it would be but not in the long term as different skills would have to be perfected.There is not much hurling skills involved in running the length of the field throwing the ball to one another rugby style. gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1126 - 28/06/2024 11:25:20 2555355 Link
The worst thing to come in to hurling is diving and play acting and every county has a handful who are constantly looking for frees or to get opponents sent off. The Sunday Game needs to highlight these more and rid our game of these cheats. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 28/06/2024 12:11:44 2555361 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "I wouldn't be that worked up over handpass. As I said before, some of the focus has had to do with go be the wall ways of getting at Limerick. The one positive even from going back in my memory to 70s is that overt thuggery has been mostly taken out of the game. There was a time when lads like Screeney would have been terrorised with minimal protection. And worse, his tormentors lauded as some sort of hard men and heroes. A turning point in that for good and all was the reaction - not least by Ollie - to the shameful treatment of Joe Canning." Yeah this sums it up Barney. Like I remember hurling in the 80's and 90's and it was full of mainly honest manly endeavour but there was also an undercurrent of pull first ask questions later and if you get a sledge in and injure somebody on the "the ball was there" mantra that was for the better. Referees in club and county were too tolerant of blatant dirty play, but now they are gone the opposite way and Rory O'Connor's first yellow on Sunday was testament to that. I think the game is in a much better place now that the hatchet merchant (and every team had half a dozen in their team back then) has been weeded out of it. But we're gone too far the other way and players trying to play the ball are now being caught out by diving and opponents trying to win frees by ducking in to tackles to make them look high, or by falling over and conning the referee that the tight marking corner back fouled them. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 28/06/2024 12:16:54 2555365 Link
Replying To ExiledInWex: "The worst thing to come in to hurling is diving and play acting and every county has a handful who are constantly looking for frees or to get opponents sent off. The Sunday Game needs to highlight these more and rid our game of these cheats." Name the lads from the top counties who dive? Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1916 - 28/06/2024 13:46:36 2555388 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Name the lads from the top counties who dive?" Tried that but the admin didn't allow it ;-) Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 28/06/2024 14:09:04 2555392 Link
Replying To Claretandblue: "Name the lads from the top counties who dive?" Are you serious? Can you not see what goes on? ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 28/06/2024 14:30:14 2555401 Link
Surely in the age of the smart sliotar we can get a chip into the ball which determine if a player has completed the correct handpass motion? Shouldn't be that hard to determine a hard pass from a strike pass via the force applied to the ball? Anything under a certain force if not double tapped is a free? MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 206 - 28/06/2024 14:31:42 2555402 Link
Replying To MrPBoylan: "Surely in the age of the smart sliotar we can get a chip into the ball which determine if a player has completed the correct handpass motion? Shouldn't be that hard to determine a hard pass from a strike pass via the force applied to the ball? Anything under a certain force if not double tapped is a free?" Are maybe attach an electrode to players hands so that if the right contact is not make they get an electric shock? BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 28/06/2024 15:32:01 2555418 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Are maybe attach an electrode to players hands so that if the right contact is not make they get an electric shock?" Only for Limerick players! MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 206 - 28/06/2024 15:42:42 2555421 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Are maybe attach an electrode to players hands so that if the right contact is not make they get an electric shock?" Can't believe the comments here about the hurling handpass, and coming from football counties to boot, or I should say not to boot because the football travels from one end of the field to the other without touching a boot or the ground. Hurling is a superior sport at every level and doesn't get the promotion it deserves. aloneitstands (Limerick) - Posts: 74 - 28/06/2024 15:49:12 2555424 Link
Replying To MrPBoylan: "Only for Limerick players!" Well, that would certainly suit some of their critics who hide behind the purity of hurling! BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 28/06/2024 16:10:36 2555431 Link
Replying To aloneitstands: "Can't believe the comments here about the hurling handpass, and coming from football counties to boot, or I should say not to boot because the football travels from one end of the field to the other without touching a boot or the ground. Hurling is a superior sport at every level and doesn't get the promotion it deserves." I can't believe the cheek of some of the limerick supporters these days. Getting very big for the boots… MrPBoylan (Monaghan) - Posts: 206 - 28/06/2024 17:42:23 2555442 Link