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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2024

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I'm the first to have a moan at the officials if they're doing a bad job, but you couldn't really expect a ref to get a throw /handpass call correct all the time,, it's just impossible.

Also, let there be no talk of var in hurling.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 09/07/2024 22:58:41    2558127

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Replying To Yadse:  "I recall three contentious balls called as throws over the weekend that on replay all looked to be hand passes - the Kilkenny one in the first half (given as a free to Clare and a point), the Cork disallowed goal (potentially a big swing), and Gillanes one in the first half.
When they slowed it down there seemed to be a striking action in all three while in real time they looked like throws
Clearly, players are doing it so fast that its impossible for refs to tell, and at least in some cases balls that look like they are being thrown are actually not.
Its a great skill and important to keep the game moving. If players cant get ball away play slows down, more rucks and more pulling and dragging, more frees.
If they try to change its important they look at slow mo replays and talk to the players to get a handle on what is really happening before they change the rules"
Fair point but if it had not be administrated fairly and consistently surly something is required. No point in doing the ostrich is there ? We have a fabulous sport but tweaking may always be required. Now we see players leaning into the foul like another sport. It is time for an unsportsman like free or warning or both. I don't like yellow cards straight up as something innocuous happens then and a red has to be issued. In the present game an extra man is critical and the players and managers know it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 09/07/2024 23:46:08    2558138

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "LRH I had a clear view of Eoin Cody's' illegal handpass, it looked a throw all day, however it was perfect on playback so How you be so sure Limerick were throwing the ball."
This is a real problem. Referees are basically guessing, so a lot of mistakes are made. Ethan Twomey had a perfectly good hand pass called back, resulting in a point for Limerick. Connolly had a hand pass called back, resulting in a disallowed goal. Ironically, the previous year in the Gaelic grounds round robin between Cork and Limerick, Will Donoghues pass/throw in an almost identical situation resulted in a goal for Limerick. Either ban handpass entirely or come up with a way to adjudicate it properly!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 10/07/2024 00:46:25    2558140

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm the first to have a moan at the officials if they're doing a bad job, but you couldn't really expect a ref to get a throw /handpass call correct all the time,, it's just impossible.

Also, let there be no talk of var in hurling."
And interrupts flow of game. Should only be pulled up where blatantly obvious.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 10/07/2024 06:52:52    2558146

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "And interrupts flow of game. Should only be pulled up where blatantly obvious."
I agree… I think referees are just blowing up passes on the odd occasion with the hope that it stamps out throws… there was one on Sunday blown up but it was a perfect hand pass…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3027 - 10/07/2024 07:33:53    2558147

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "This is a real problem. Referees are basically guessing, so a lot of mistakes are made. Ethan Twomey had a perfectly good hand pass called back, resulting in a point for Limerick. Connolly had a hand pass called back, resulting in a disallowed goal. Ironically, the previous year in the Gaelic grounds round robin between Cork and Limerick, Will Donoghues pass/throw in an almost identical situation resulted in a goal for Limerick. Either ban handpass entirely or come up with a way to adjudicate it properly!"
Or legalise under arm throwing under a certain distance?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 10/07/2024 08:28:29    2558148

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Replying To Canuck:  "It is very hard for the refs in a spit second to know if it is legit. These commentators and analysts need to shut up. Stating that lots of them are missed all the time (probably are) with the benefit of replays. So are they saying the ref should not call a hand pass that he sees are illegal because he did not call a one he did not see ? Why are things so difficult to make easier ? An open hand, remember it is called a palmed ball. Separation between the ball and hand with the elbow visually moving back. Call them all until all these criteria is met an is obvious. Let the players make sure they are not going to be called by doing it right. I agree use VAR or else ban all replay rights to t.v. Its one or the other because referring by t.v. sets the ref up for failure the next day as he is human when viewing this later. Do coaches and managers set up their players to fail ?"
I fully agree, Canuck. Cusack went on a rant at the weekend because a couple of handpasses were pulled, but he knows how difficult it is for referees who have to make a snap judgement without the benefit of replays. If it is so difficult (impossible?) for referees, then something needs to change. If there is no clear striking action then the referee should call a throw, whether Cusack likes it or not. It might have the affect of slowing down the game for a while, but players will quickly get the message and make sure they do it right next time.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 583 - 10/07/2024 10:18:29    2558165

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Replying To midlands:  "I fully agree, Canuck. Cusack went on a rant at the weekend because a couple of handpasses were pulled, but he knows how difficult it is for referees who have to make a snap judgement without the benefit of replays. If it is so difficult (impossible?) for referees, then something needs to change. If there is no clear striking action then the referee should call a throw, whether Cusack likes it or not. It might have the affect of slowing down the game for a while, but players will quickly get the message and make sure they do it right next time."
Well, even when the players get it right, the referee gets it wrong. Oh, I forgot, we can't question authority, and can't upset the status quo! VAR probably is needed, as it looks impossible for the human eye. I saw one hand pass from Cian Lynch under referee's eyes in second half, that was allowed, but looked like a throw to me!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 10/07/2024 11:30:03    2558177

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "Refereeing is an impossible task these days but I thought both refs had decent games. You can always point to a few issues though and no ref will get it 100% right. I was perplexed at why Gordon did not play advantage to us when SOD had the ball with only 1 man (who was on a yellow) to beat.

The game yesterday was littered with throws and is was crazy to think that Cork were punished more from it when clearly Limerick were at it more than Cork. Cork also got a yellow card after what looked to me like a dive by Diarmuid Byrnes late in the second half."
Byrnes was smart to do that. He had the ball and charged into Connolly,then fell down. He got away with a free, and Connolly got a yellow card. Fair play to him!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 10/07/2024 11:41:00    2558181

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Well, even when the players get it right, the referee gets it wrong. Oh, I forgot, we can't question authority, and can't upset the status quo! VAR probably is needed, as it looks impossible for the human eye. I saw one hand pass from Cian Lynch under referee's eyes in second half, that was allowed, but looked like a throw to me!"
It looked like Cian threw a few of those passes!

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 349 - 10/07/2024 14:38:28    2558221

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "This is a real problem. Referees are basically guessing, so a lot of mistakes are made. Ethan Twomey had a perfectly good hand pass called back, resulting in a point for Limerick. Connolly had a hand pass called back, resulting in a disallowed goal. Ironically, the previous year in the Gaelic grounds round robin between Cork and Limerick, Will Donoghues pass/throw in an almost identical situation resulted in a goal for Limerick. Either ban handpass entirely or come up with a way to adjudicate it properly!"
In fairness, Twomeys pass via the way he moved his arm looked a certain handpass. Its impossible for th ref to get it right.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2679 - 10/07/2024 15:14:36    2558224

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Well, even when the players get it right, the referee gets it wrong. Oh, I forgot, we can't question authority, and can't upset the status quo! VAR probably is needed, as it looks impossible for the human eye. I saw one hand pass from Cian Lynch under referee's eyes in second half, that was allowed, but looked like a throw to me!"
They should leave well enough alone! Of course, like someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder they can't help themselves.


Always with the nit-picking. Two games were generally well reffed and apart from the wrong calls on the handpasses that were okay I can't really think of any major decision that annoyed me or seemed to annoy either players or crowd.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 10/07/2024 15:57:57    2558228

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "It looked like Cian threw a few of those passes!"
Lynch operates at an extremely fast, skillful level, though. His touch can be sublime, so I'd gamble that if his handpasses were slowed down and analyzed that they'd be exactly that handpasses. His speed of wrist and flick, etc. is at a different level to most players.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 10/07/2024 19:53:27    2558264

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Lynch operates at an extremely fast, skillful level, though. His touch can be sublime, so I'd gamble that if his handpasses were slowed down and analyzed that they'd be exactly that handpasses. His speed of wrist and flick, etc. is at a different level to most players."
Anyway, Cork vs Clare, Rebels vs Banner go at it, and May the best team win and Cork will look to keep Shane O' Donnell quiet, and hope that Kelly doesn't have a blow out final. Bookies have it approximately 50/50 and It's great having a final not involving Limerick for a change, and equally good in football not having a final involving Dublin. It's like a breath of fresh air!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 10/07/2024 21:49:32    2558279

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Well, even when the players get it right, the referee gets it wrong. Oh, I forgot, we can't question authority, and can't upset the status quo! VAR probably is needed, as it looks impossible for the human eye. I saw one hand pass from Cian Lynch under referee's eyes in second half, that was allowed, but looked like a throw to me!"
Yes and I was looking straight at Eoin Cody on the ground on TV as he gave what appeared a throw all day. Yet on play back it was clearly OK. You were probably thirty or forty yards from Cian Lynch when he gave that pass.When you see what he can do with the stick and ball I feel he is so skillful he does not need to throw the ball.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 11/07/2024 00:37:57    2558303

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Byrnes was smart to do that. He had the ball and charged into Connolly,then fell down. He got away with a free, and Connolly got a yellow card. Fair play to him!"
Thanks Ryan, that is what experienced players. It is a game after all.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 11/07/2024 00:40:17    2558304

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Anyway, Cork vs Clare, Rebels vs Banner go at it, and May the best team win and Cork will look to keep Shane O' Donnell quiet, and hope that Kelly doesn't have a blow out final. Bookies have it approximately 50/50 and It's great having a final not involving Limerick for a change, and equally good in football not having a final involving Dublin. It's like a breath of fresh air!"
In Fairness Ryan you had 17 out of 18 years there a while back when Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp won the All Ireland and nobody got too pushed about it

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4467 - 11/07/2024 00:43:33    2558305

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Well, even when the players get it right, the referee gets it wrong. Oh, I forgot, we can't question authority, and can't upset the status quo! VAR probably is needed, as it looks impossible for the human eye. I saw one hand pass from Cian Lynch under referee's eyes in second half, that was allowed, but looked like a throw to me!"
Are you honestly suggesting that we should stop the game and go back and check the validity of a score every time a handpass is used in the build up?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 11/07/2024 06:55:39    2558312

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They should leave well enough alone! Of course, like someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder they can't help themselves.


Always with the nit-picking. Two games were generally well reffed and apart from the wrong calls on the handpasses that were okay I can't really think of any major decision that annoyed me or seemed to annoy either players or crowd."
Imo what strictly speaking are deemed wrong calls by the referee on handpasses should not be called wrong calls at all. This is what's wrong with the handpass as it is currently governed.... the benefit of the doubt is given 99% of the time to the player and this is FACILITATING and INCENTIVIZING illegal throws. Referees will let doubtful handpasses go because they don't want their decisions analysed by slow motion replays on tv and called as refereeing mistakes afterwards. If a handpass is NOT CLEARLY LEGITIMATE TO THE NAKED EYE the referee should ALWAYS call it as a free and to hell with the slow motion judgement afterwards. If the rule needs to be changed in wording to deem legitimate handpasses to be only handpasses where there is CLEAR and OBVIOUS SEPARATION between ball and palm TO THE NAKED EYE , then the wording needs to be changed to put the power back with the referee and take it away from the throwers.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1953 - 11/07/2024 09:45:51    2558329

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Are you honestly suggesting that we should stop the game and go back and check the validity of a score every time a handpass is used in the build up?"
Something needs to be done. It didn't affect result this time, but Connolly's handpass resulting in a disallowed goal, and Ethan Twomey's handpass which potentially had a 2 point swing, could have swung the game. As Mr Forever Young pointed out Cian Lynch, because of his dexterity and sleight of hand gets a free pass ( pardon the pun). Bit like the phantom punch from Cassius Clay ( Ali) against Sonny Liston in 1963, when Sonny proportedly took a dive! Cassius said the punch was so fast, nobody saw it!!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 11/07/2024 09:47:50    2558331

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