National Forum

Some Updates On The Football Review

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The tweaks are minor enough in fairness. The next two rounds of the league should provide enough opportunity to adjust.
The big thing for the 11v11 now is that there should be contests. There have been some good contests where defenders cannot pass back to the keeper. The game needs to see similar challenges around the arc, instead of sitting ducks conceding a two pointer.
"Point". "____"? "Goal". Is there any one syllable name that can catch on for a two pointer?"
Seen a few people calling them Arcs.
Basketball ball never had an issue with saying 3 pointers though. Wonder how long it will take for downtown to come into radio commentators parlance here

systematic (Galway) - Posts: 138 - 09/03/2025 12:51:43    2595522

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The tweaks are minor enough in fairness. The next two rounds of the league should provide enough opportunity to adjust.
The big thing for the 11v11 now is that there should be contests. There have been some good contests where defenders cannot pass back to the keeper. The game needs to see similar challenges around the arc, instead of sitting ducks conceding a two pointer.
"Point". "____"? "Goal". Is there any one syllable name that can catch on for a two pointer?"
Hopefully this nonsensical 2pt arc is done away with… it adds nothing to the game.. All we have is a clatter of players patrolling the arc hoping the opponent has a pot shot with the majority landing short or going wide… It will be even worse at club level where players have even less chance of scoring.. As I have said leaving 3/4 players up and making the goalkeepers kick the ball beyond 40m was sufficient enough change to be getting on with instead of these multiple nonsensical changes that's turning the game into a farce…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3572 - 09/03/2025 13:36:09    2595532

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Hopefully this nonsensical 2pt arc is done away with… it adds nothing to the game.. All we have is a clatter of players patrolling the arc hoping the opponent has a pot shot with the majority landing short or going wide… It will be even worse at club level where players have even less chance of scoring.. As I have said leaving 3/4 players up and making the goalkeepers kick the ball beyond 40m was sufficient enough change to be getting on with instead of these multiple nonsensical changes that's turning the game into a farce…"
ForeverBlue2, you'll be forever blue complaining about the two pointer!!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 09/03/2025 15:59:36    2595560

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Replying To legendzxix:  "ForeverBlue2, you'll be forever blue complaining about the two pointer!!"
In hurling a few years back they introduced 2pts for converting a sideline cut but weren't long ditching it as it added nothing to the game… The 2 pointers in football add nothing to the game either except to distort score lines … and only leads to payers having pot shots

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3572 - 09/03/2025 16:42:41    2595570

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The tweaks are minor enough in fairness. The next two rounds of the league should provide enough opportunity to adjust.
The big thing for the 11v11 now is that there should be contests. There have been some good contests where defenders cannot pass back to the keeper. The game needs to see similar challenges around the arc, instead of sitting ducks conceding a two pointer.
"Point". "____"? "Goal". Is there any one syllable name that can catch on for a two pointer?"
I like the latest FRC tweaks - modest as you stated.

Just three things I'd want addressed:

a) Less line markings;
b) Reduce "kick to foot pass" ratio from >3.2x (to ~2x); and
c) Make Arc scores < distortive on traditional score totals.

My proposed remedies:
a) Eliminate 65s, 13s, Ds and small parallelograms;
b) Defence must 'kick a 45-65' into midfield contests; and
c) 'Every second Arc' is worth 2 pts; the first worth 1 pt.
[e.g. 1-4-10 is worth 19 pts (1-16); 1-7-10 worth 23 pts (1-20), with 'goal and point values' relatively appropriate].

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 09/03/2025 17:25:08    2595580

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "In hurling a few years back they introduced 2pts for converting a sideline cut but weren't long ditching it as it added nothing to the game… The 2 pointers in football add nothing to the game either except to distort score lines … and only leads to payers having pot shots"
After the atrocious football over recent years, it is no surprise that the risk of the longer shot is being rewarded. Otherwise you have pass, pass, pass trying to get into a scoring zone against a swarm defence.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 09/03/2025 18:57:47    2595604

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Replying To omahant:  "I like the latest FRC tweaks - modest as you stated.

Just three things I'd want addressed:

a) Less line markings;
b) Reduce "kick to foot pass" ratio from >3.2x (to ~2x); and
c) Make Arc scores < distortive on traditional score totals.

My proposed remedies:
a) Eliminate 65s, 13s, Ds and small parallelograms;
b) Defence must 'kick a 45-65' into midfield contests; and
c) 'Every second Arc' is worth 2 pts; the first worth 1 pt.
[e.g. 1-4-10 is worth 19 pts (1-16); 1-7-10 worth 23 pts (1-20), with 'goal and point values' relatively appropriate
."]Pardon?
a) you want to eliminate 65s that have nothing at all to do with football?
b) you want to use the 65s that you are eliminating in a) that have nothing to do with football and create a no mans land? Honestly lad, crazy stuff. The kick outs beyond the arc have created contests. From there teams are challenging for the breaking ball. There have been some great defending against teams trying to work the ball out from defence with the keeper not being an option.
c) answered you on that before. Catch yourself on lad!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 09/03/2025 19:03:08    2595606

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Replying To omahant:  "I like the latest FRC tweaks - modest as you stated.

Just three things I'd want addressed:

a) Less line markings;
b) Reduce "kick to foot pass" ratio from >3.2x (to ~2x); and
c) Make Arc scores < distortive on traditional score totals.

My proposed remedies:
a) Eliminate 65s, 13s, Ds and small parallelograms;
b) Defence must 'kick a 45-65' into midfield contests; and
c) 'Every second Arc' is worth 2 pts; the first worth 1 pt.
[e.g. 1-4-10 is worth 19 pts (1-16); 1-7-10 worth 23 pts (1-20), with 'goal and point values' relatively appropriate
."]Eh?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2119 - 09/03/2025 19:11:48    2595608

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a) Of course, I know the 65s are for hurling - just talking aesthetically - so you want the D and the Arc?
b) ok, you got me - a 45-65 without the 65 - ok, put it back :)
c) I'm serious - the 'arc bonus' could be per pair rather than per score - the scores would look more traditional.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 09/03/2025 21:26:40    2595631

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@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8573 - 09/03/2025 19:03:08

Maybe combine the 45s & 65s into two 55s instead?
Now, I'd go for a defensive "55-72 (midfield) kick".
Football's 45m kick could become a 55 and
Hurling's 65m puck could become a 72 (midfield) or a 90 (from own 55).
Take out the Ds, 13s and small parallelograms as well.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/03/2025 00:40:12    2595649

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Replying To sligo joe:  "Don't think there is any issue here. Before the "tweaks" a team that was down to 14 was required to keep only 2 players "up" as opposed to 3 when having the full complement of 15.
A team before the "tweaks" was required to keep 3 "back" in all circumstances not including the goalie.
Now they must keep 4 back either including or excluding the goalie. If the goalie crosses the half way line then there must be 4 of his outfield colleagues behind the halfway line.
Being down a man never affected the 3 back rule so no clarification was required."
"A team must have at four players in their half of the field which may include the goalkeeper and at least three outfield player in the opposition half of the field."

"Teams who have been reduced in numbers must still keep three in the opposition's half of the of the field at all times."

I'm wondering does the second statement account for the first - so does the 3 being kept in the opposition half in a Black or Red card situation include the keeper? Thus allowing the full attacking compliment when down a man?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 406 - 10/03/2025 09:03:24    2595661

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Replying To omahant:  "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8573 - 09/03/2025 19:03:08

Maybe combine the 45s & 65s into two 55s instead?
Now, I'd go for a defensive "55-72 (midfield) kick".
Football's 45m kick could become a 55 and
Hurling's 65m puck could become a 72 (midfield) or a 90 (from own 55).
Take out the Ds, 13s and small parallelograms as well."
Honestly, stop! Volunteers have enough to be doing lining the new 40m arc.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 10/03/2025 09:29:23    2595666

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In general (including junior club football), the new changes seem ok and should silence a good few complaints:

1. A breach of the 3v3 rule - which is now proposed to become 4v3 - in carrying, receiving or intercepting the ball or attempting to do so is a free kick from where the player crossed the halfway line, with 4m of leeway.

2. Teams who have been reduced in numbers must still keep three in the opposition's half of the of the field at all times.

3. A player who claims a kick-out mark can play on immediately and not be challenged for four metres. If the player is challenged in that space, a free kick shall be awarded 50 meters more advantageous to that player up to the opposition's 13m line. The player can also bring it back to outside the 40m arc for a two-point score.
This one is a good change - stops the deliberate fouling of the player who wins a kick out by implementing a big penalty.

The others are more technical but needed.

I still think they need to allow a kick inside the 40m arc to a player who starts their run from outside it, just to give the team kicking out the ball a chance if they are into the wind and under pressure on the long kick out.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1252 - 10/03/2025 11:33:11    2595711

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Replying To brianb:  ""A team must have at four players in their half of the field which may include the goalkeeper and at least three outfield player in the opposition half of the field."

"Teams who have been reduced in numbers must still keep three in the opposition's half of the of the field at all times."

I'm wondering does the second statement account for the first - so does the 3 being kept in the opposition half in a Black or Red card situation include the keeper? Thus allowing the full attacking compliment when down a man?"
I find some of the official wording either ambiguous or duplicative. There should be no reason to struggle like this.
Maybe my understanding of English needs improvement.
e.g. Does "3 in the opposition half" always mean "3 up"?

I "think" this is what the amended rule is (but I could be totally wrong):

Each team MUST keep a MINIMUM of 'ANY 3 up and ANY 4 back' regardless of the number of team players on the field (15, or less following red/black cards).
So any players, in excess of 7, can roam anywhere.

That's clear - but is it correct?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/03/2025 15:09:52    2595780

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Honestly, stop! Volunteers have enough to be doing lining the new 40m arc."
It's fair you don't want my suggestions - but surely, you have to admit, I'm giving the linesmen less work !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/03/2025 15:13:09    2595781

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Replying To omahant:  "It's fair you don't want my suggestions - but surely, you have to admit, I'm giving the linesmen less work !"
The 45-65 is a complete non runner. There's a time to drop a suggestion after reasonable feedback. Half points will never carry. Best to park it and focus on more practical areas.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8578 - 10/03/2025 19:50:22    2595843

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Replying To omahant:  "I don't understand 3v2 - my understanding is "ANY 3 up / ANY 4 back"."
The change to the rule which was 12v12 in attack is now 11v12, not sure why some people were saying 12v11 originally, a goalkeeper could attack the ball as an extra defender only couldn't take a pass from one of his own teammates unless he was in the small parallelogram.
I don't see how this change is a good idea for the game, goalkeeping is going back fifty years.

Bigcall (Cavan) - Posts: 17 - 10/03/2025 21:42:05    2595865

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The 45-65 is a complete non runner. There's a time to drop a suggestion after reasonable feedback. Half points will never carry. Best to park it and focus on more practical areas."
I'm going for a haircut.

1,2,1,2,1,2 no half points, although a 1.5 average.

The other non-runner doesn't have to reduce handpasses or increase more contests.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/03/2025 22:07:15    2595871

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Replying To Bigcall:  "The change to the rule which was 12v12 in attack is now 11v12, not sure why some people were saying 12v11 originally, a goalkeeper could attack the ball as an extra defender only couldn't take a pass from one of his own teammates unless he was in the small parallelogram.
I don't see how this change is a good idea for the game, goalkeeping is going back fifty years."
I think most people would say the prior 12v11 is now 11v11, with the defending goalkeeping not counted in each case as he 'mostly' can't receive a pass.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3114 - 10/03/2025 22:12:22    2595872

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Replying To omahant:  "I think most people would say the prior 12v11 is now 11v11, with the defending goalkeeping not counted in each case as he 'mostly' can't receive a pass."
They might as well tie the goalie to the posts.Talk about backwards step.

Alwaysencourage (Galway) - Posts: 392 - 11/03/2025 12:39:41    2595926

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