National Forum

Does Ulster Championship Benefit Ulster Teams?

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Replying To kevin03:  "Is that not a bit rich as Galway one an AI 23 years ago and have only played in 1 AI final since then. Considering Tyrone have been in 5 finals (winning 4 of them), Donegal winning one and Armagh winning once since Galway one their last AI.

If ulster teams are not that good then they must still be significantly better than Galway given they have played in more recent AI finals and actually one the AI more recently than Galway have."
What Ulster team played in a final more recently than Galway?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 22/05/2024 16:41:58    2546450

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Replying To oneoff:  "Yes and I also stated a fact did I not? So again answer the question I asked you?"
This is the second time I've had to tell you I answered your question. You were arguing with facts about Ulster team's achievements. Yes, you came back with your own version of statistics which is just another way of looking at it. But what is the point you are trying to make here? The achievements have still been achieved. Not achieved in the right 'spirit'? Or do you just like splitting hairs?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 22/05/2024 18:01:52    2546469

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Sorry Wally.My mistake .Of course Tyrone won in 21 playing brilliant football.On Tyrone congratulations on the Under 20 victory.Tyrone were far better than Kerry.They have some super players and young McElholm at centre forward is just class.Future looking bright for Tyrone."
You're alright Mick. Sometimes I think that All Ireland was a dream myself!

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 922 - 22/05/2024 20:24:06    2546486

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Replying To Wally:  "You're alright Mick. Sometimes I think that All Ireland was a dream myself!"
Nice one Wally.Id say you might not hae to wait too long for the next one either as you have a good group of young lads coming through.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 23/05/2024 10:34:30    2546527

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "This is the second time I've had to tell you I answered your question. You were arguing with facts about Ulster team's achievements. Yes, you came back with your own version of statistics which is just another way of looking at it. But what is the point you are trying to make here? The achievements have still been achieved. Not achieved in the right 'spirit'? Or do you just like splitting hairs?"
Again I'm just pointing out a fact. Did I say anything about what Ulster teams win not happening? That's you trying to twist things to suit you.

It's also quite funny to hear someone from Ulster talking about teams not winning in the "right spirit" when some many from Ulster are so fast to dismiss more or less anything won by anyone outside of Ulster.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 23/05/2024 10:40:08    2546530

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Replying To oneoff:  "Again I'm just pointing out a fact. Did I say anything about what Ulster teams win not happening? That's you trying to twist things to suit you.

It's also quite funny to hear someone from Ulster talking about teams not winning in the "right spirit" when some many from Ulster are so fast to dismiss more or less anything won by anyone outside of Ulster."
Highlighting exactly what you said isn't twisting anything. I will ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make in all this?

Im glad you find it funny that I highlighted the 'right spirit' because that's exactly the accusations that were thrown at Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh when they were winning AI's. Never heard amongst all the waxing lyrical articles or comments on the greatness of Dublin and the Clifford's etc. By the way, I agree with the praise Dublin and Kerry received. Any team that wins an All Ireland deserves all the credit they can get. But the narrative around Ulster counties is always back handed at best. Like Jack O'Conner on the Jimmy's Winning Matches doc saying he wouldn't be long getting told where to go in Kerry if he played a similar style, then low and behold he does just that and not a word about the 'style of play' it's just Kerry winning another one, did the same under Fitzmaurice too but it was as glorious as the 'purist' performances of the past. I long for the day that all counties receive the same respect for winning All Ireland's. Even on this thread it's not hard to find the begrudgery towards Ulster.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 23/05/2024 10:59:57    2546539

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Speaking about Ulster's teams supposed lack of success in the All-Ireland Championship does not prove that Ulster Championship is not a competitive tournament with high standards. This argument is not valid unless you are under the assumption that the All-Ireland series is in no way lop-sided unfavourably for Ulster teams.

SurelyToGod (Donegal) - Posts: 437 - 23/05/2024 11:19:23    2546548

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Replying To cityman73:  "There 5 teams that can win the munster hurling championship,there isnt 5 teams that could win the ulster football championship,the best games we get are the early rounds of provincial championship."
Donegal Derry Tyrone Armagh Cavan who won it in 20 thats 5

highdropingball (Donegal) - Posts: 110 - 23/05/2024 11:52:30    2546557

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Highlighting exactly what you said isn't twisting anything. I will ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make in all this?

Im glad you find it funny that I highlighted the 'right spirit' because that's exactly the accusations that were thrown at Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh when they were winning AI's. Never heard amongst all the waxing lyrical articles or comments on the greatness of Dublin and the Clifford's etc. By the way, I agree with the praise Dublin and Kerry received. Any team that wins an All Ireland deserves all the credit they can get. But the narrative around Ulster counties is always back handed at best. Like Jack O'Conner on the Jimmy's Winning Matches doc saying he wouldn't be long getting told where to go in Kerry if he played a similar style, then low and behold he does just that and not a word about the 'style of play' it's just Kerry winning another one, did the same under Fitzmaurice too but it was as glorious as the 'purist' performances of the past. I long for the day that all counties receive the same respect for winning All Ireland's. Even on this thread it's not hard to find the begrudgery towards Ulster."
Yeah I remember a comment from Spillane when Kerry beat us in 2014 about "the cream rising to the top"
Arrogant bull. They played the same way as Donegal that day and unfortunately we blinked first, with poor old Papa's costly kickout mistake.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9519 - 23/05/2024 12:04:03    2546562

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah I remember a comment from Spillane when Kerry beat us in 2014 about "the cream rising to the top"
Arrogant bull. They played the same way as Donegal that day and unfortunately we blinked first, with poor old Papa's costly kickout mistake."
100%. Even back in 2009 when the overuse of the handpass and retaining possession was starting to be bemoaned as something which came from Ulster teams.
When Kerry beat Cork in that year's All-Ireland final, they had something like 3 times the number of hand passes as Cork and fewer kick passes. It barely got a mention.
Watching the Tyrone U20s last weekend was joy. They played some brilliant football and put up big scores throughout the year. The same was true of their team which won 2 years ago.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 23/05/2024 12:32:13    2546570

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah I remember a comment from Spillane when Kerry beat us in 2014 about "the cream rising to the top"
Arrogant bull. They played the same way as Donegal that day and unfortunately we blinked first, with poor old Papa's costly kickout mistake."
I remember tuning in expecting to hear a continuation of the 'death of football' narrative that evening. That was the theme to any match involving Donegal before that final. What I learned was, it's fine for Kerry to win an AI by adopting a defensive approach, just like it was for Dublin under Gilroy in 2011 but that was overshadowed by the Dubs making the break through after years of failed attempts. Fair enough by me. But Donegal winning their first AI since 92 in 2012 was still a 'tainted' one that wasn't overshadowed by long awaited AI success. It was 'puke football' when Tyrone dismantled Kerry in 2003 as well. Spillane was an unreal footballer in his day but he obviously never learned how to be dignified in defeat or uphold a one size fits all judgement when he made the transition to punditry.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 23/05/2024 12:58:20    2546578

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Replying To oneoff:  "What Ulster team played in a final more recently than Galway?"
Meant to say regularly instead of recently. As in ulster teams have played more regularly in AI finals in last 22 years than Galway have.

kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 280 - 23/05/2024 13:58:53    2546596

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Highlighting exactly what you said isn't twisting anything. I will ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make in all this?

Im glad you find it funny that I highlighted the 'right spirit' because that's exactly the accusations that were thrown at Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh when they were winning AI's. Never heard amongst all the waxing lyrical articles or comments on the greatness of Dublin and the Clifford's etc. By the way, I agree with the praise Dublin and Kerry received. Any team that wins an All Ireland deserves all the credit they can get. But the narrative around Ulster counties is always back handed at best. Like Jack O'Conner on the Jimmy's Winning Matches doc saying he wouldn't be long getting told where to go in Kerry if he played a similar style, then low and behold he does just that and not a word about the 'style of play' it's just Kerry winning another one, did the same under Fitzmaurice too but it was as glorious as the 'purist' performances of the past. I long for the day that all counties receive the same respect for winning All Ireland's. Even on this thread it's not hard to find the begrudgery towards Ulster."
I already told you I was pointing out the fact a poster tried to use to highlight Ulster success was equal to Munster teams in the same time scale. The Munster championship that's looked down on by Ulster people. If you want to make it out ad "anti Ulster" that's you're own problem.

Again you can't talk about begrudgingly when many Ulster people begrud anyone who's not from Ulster any success.

People from Ulster are always very quick to mention Pat Spillane but never say anything about what the likes Joe Brolly has to say. Comments he's made about the likes of Kerry and Mayo if someone said similar about Ulster teams the likes of you and others would have to complete melt down.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 23/05/2024 15:19:56    2546622

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Replying To kevin03:  "Meant to say regularly instead of recently. As in ulster teams have played more regularly in AI finals in last 22 years than Galway have."
Ah well yes you're right there.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 23/05/2024 16:06:49    2546634

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Replying To oneoff:  "I already told you I was pointing out the fact a poster tried to use to highlight Ulster success was equal to Munster teams in the same time scale. The Munster championship that's looked down on by Ulster people. If you want to make it out ad "anti Ulster" that's you're own problem.

Again you can't talk about begrudgingly when many Ulster people begrud anyone who's not from Ulster any success.

People from Ulster are always very quick to mention Pat Spillane but never say anything about what the likes Joe Brolly has to say. Comments he's made about the likes of Kerry and Mayo if someone said similar about Ulster teams the likes of you and others would have to complete melt down."
Your some laugh, giving it the 'who what me?' about being anti Ulster when your posts never include an ounce of credibility towards an Ulster team and then at the same time claim that 'many' Ulster people look down on Munster teams (which isn't in any way factual) while telling me it's my problem for calling out (just you) for the posts that clearly state your bias. You can find me praising Dublin and Kerry on this thread, Cork's victory over Limerick on the hurling thread and Galway winning in both codes last weekend on another, that's just recent. Where's your praise of anything Ulster related?

The very fact that you think Brolly is some sort of Ulster cheerleader is really quite hilarious. He has put the boot into as many Ulster teams as he has anywhere else. Google search what he's said about Mickey Harte alone this year. Not to mention his McGuinness and McGeaney catalogue of colourful choice words about their style of play. Most people are well aware that Brolly is a mouth piece towards ALL counties and nobody is safe from his rants. This only further highlights your own 'us Vs them' delusions.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 23/05/2024 16:26:44    2546644

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Highlighting exactly what you said isn't twisting anything. I will ask you again, what is the point you are trying to make in all this?

Im glad you find it funny that I highlighted the 'right spirit' because that's exactly the accusations that were thrown at Donegal, Tyrone and Armagh when they were winning AI's. Never heard amongst all the waxing lyrical articles or comments on the greatness of Dublin and the Clifford's etc. By the way, I agree with the praise Dublin and Kerry received. Any team that wins an All Ireland deserves all the credit they can get. But the narrative around Ulster counties is always back handed at best. Like Jack O'Conner on the Jimmy's Winning Matches doc saying he wouldn't be long getting told where to go in Kerry if he played a similar style, then low and behold he does just that and not a word about the 'style of play' it's just Kerry winning another one, did the same under Fitzmaurice too but it was as glorious as the 'purist' performances of the past. I long for the day that all counties receive the same respect for winning All Ireland's. Even on this thread it's not hard to find the begrudgery towards Ulster."
From my experience in Galway the three counties we most like to see lose, outside of our traditional rivals mayo and tipp,, are kerry, Dublin, and kilkenny.
It's probably the same most counties.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 23/05/2024 16:41:11    2546655

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Replying To kevin03:  "Meant to say regularly instead of recently. As in ulster teams have played more regularly in AI finals in last 22 years than Galway have."
Why did you pick 22 years and not 20.Oh yeah I see both Galway and Meath played in 01 final.Cork footballers have played in 3 finals in the last 17 years.This argument is getting crazy as it's easy picture stats to suit.Someone said there 5 teams that can win Ulster.Well Armagh have nt won in years.Someone said there are 5 hurling teams that can win in Munster.Well that 5 out of 5.P.s.Here s another stat.Kilkenny footballers have nt been beaten in the senior football championship for decades!

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 23/05/2024 17:17:40    2546662

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Your some laugh, giving it the 'who what me?' about being anti Ulster when your posts never include an ounce of credibility towards an Ulster team and then at the same time claim that 'many' Ulster people look down on Munster teams (which isn't in any way factual) while telling me it's my problem for calling out (just you) for the posts that clearly state your bias. You can find me praising Dublin and Kerry on this thread, Cork's victory over Limerick on the hurling thread and Galway winning in both codes last weekend on another, that's just recent. Where's your praise of anything Ulster related?

The very fact that you think Brolly is some sort of Ulster cheerleader is really quite hilarious. He has put the boot into as many Ulster teams as he has anywhere else. Google search what he's said about Mickey Harte alone this year. Not to mention his McGuinness and McGeaney catalogue of colourful choice words about their style of play. Most people are well aware that Brolly is a mouth piece towards ALL counties and nobody is safe from his rants. This only further highlights your own 'us Vs them' delusions."
What exactly are you "calling out"?

You Ulster lads really are something else. You honestly believe a lot of people from Ulster don't look down on Munster? How many times is the line "if Kerry were in Ulster they wouldn't win All-Irelands"? Or are you going to try and claim that doesn't happen?

Wow again talking about delusion on a thread about Ulster's self hype. Again imagine someone from Dublin or Kerry stating something similar saying they were at a "disadvantage".

As I've said the non stop playing the victim card by the likes of you and others from Ulster has got boring at this stage. I won't be replying to you anymore as all you're interested in is playing said card

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 23/05/2024 17:50:43    2546670

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Nice one Wally.Id say you might not hae to wait too long for the next one either as you have a good group of young lads coming through."
Hopefully Mick. What Tyrone fans need most now is patience.

We thankfully have a very good underage structure which has produced plenty of success. Unfortunately our senior team has suffered a bit of upheaval over the past couple of years but I have confidence we can come good again.

We could be doing with another year before meeting the dubs though!!

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 922 - 23/05/2024 18:37:43    2546681

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Replying To Wally:  "Hopefully Mick. What Tyrone fans need most now is patience.

We thankfully have a very good underage structure which has produced plenty of success. Unfortunately our senior team has suffered a bit of upheaval over the past couple of years but I have confidence we can come good again.

We could be doing with another year before meeting the dubs though!!"
I've no doubt and If I was Dooher I'd actually bring in two or three of the under 20s into training squad straight away and who knows one or two might even get a chance this year.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3844 - 23/05/2024 19:29:44    2546692

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