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Any one know what the rules are now for when 3 or more teams are level on points? It was changed last year to effectively be a mini league between the tied teams discounting results against teams not involved in the tie. However this caused huge confusion as some competitions retained old rule. I think that it was announced that the nfl for 2024 would retain old rules but I can't find any clarity on other competitions. The Connacht u20 championship this year is fascinating with many permutations going in to the final round. Some of these permutations will have different outcomes depending on which rule is applied.
anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 955 - 11/04/2024 18:27:06
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Replying To anotheralias: "Any one know what the rules are now for when 3 or more teams are level on points? It was changed last year to effectively be a mini league between the tied teams discounting results against teams not involved in the tie. However this caused huge confusion as some competitions retained old rule. I think that it was announced that the nfl for 2024 would retain old rules but I can't find any clarity on other competitions. The Connacht u20 championship this year is fascinating with many permutations going in to the final round. Some of these permutations will have different outcomes depending on which rule is applied." Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book -
https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf
link
For inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies.
I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 12/04/2024 10:49:51
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!"
Not sure why but the old way was in use in the NFL
Is it any wonder GAA people get confused about rules and regulations!?
Connacht Council also ordained the u20 (and presumably Minor) Semi and Final will be at neutral venues.
Previously in the Minor they reversed the group game fixtures.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 12/04/2024 11:31:15
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Replying To anotheralias: "Any one know what the rules are now for when 3 or more teams are level on points? It was changed last year to effectively be a mini league between the tied teams discounting results against teams not involved in the tie. However this caused huge confusion as some competitions retained old rule. I think that it was announced that the nfl for 2024 would retain old rules but I can't find any clarity on other competitions. The Connacht u20 championship this year is fascinating with many permutations going in to the final round. Some of these permutations will have different outcomes depending on which rule is applied." There was a discussion on this over on the Division 4 thread. The long and the short of it is, well, we don't know, unless the Connacht Council decide to let us all know one day in the not too distant future.
By the way, I had started composing this reply this morning and then got sidetracked, so it's out of date in the light of Seanfanbocht's post bot but I wasn't for binning it.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1126 - 12/04/2024 12:35:15
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!"
The head to head rule for example is just a joke, and now we have min league rules and results between teams rules etc etc.
Just use score difference, it works, it works in GAA, it works in every other sport
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1427 - 12/04/2024 13:11:41
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What I would like to know was the criteria for making these decisions made clear to all of the teams before the competition starts?
If not then it is very open to biased decision making and does the Gaa and the various players who have been training for months no favours.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 633 - 12/04/2024 14:22:13
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "There was a discussion on this over on the Division 4 thread. The long and the short of it is, well, we don't know, unless the Connacht Council decide to let us all know one day in the not too distant future. By the way, I had started composing this reply this morning and then got sidetracked, so it's out of date in the light of Seanfanbocht's post bot but I wasn't for binning it."
Have to say I don't understand the Connacht Council's ruling on your U20 championship, in light of what I've seen myself in the Rule Book, and also on account of what the official here told me.
I do wish simple score difference had been used to decide promotion from Div. 4 rather than the head-to-head rule, but that's a different story.....! :)
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 12/04/2024 14:23:46
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "What I would like to know was the criteria for making these decisions made clear to all of the teams before the competition starts?
If not then it is very open to biased decision making and does the Gaa and the various players who have been training for months no favours." In fairness, I'd expect it was. I know we in Wexford get the competition regulations for all national competitions from Croke Park before they start, and from Leinster Council for provincial competitions. Would expect that Connacht Council send out the competition regulations before provincial competitions start there too.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 12/04/2024 16:05:24
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Replying To Pikeman96: "In fairness, I'd expect it was. I know we in Wexford get the competition regulations for all national competitions from Croke Park before they start, and from Leinster Council for provincial competitions. Would expect that Connacht Council send out the competition regulations before provincial competitions start there too." Fair enough Pikeman96. Hopefully that was the case.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 633 - 12/04/2024 16:24:07
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!"
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13884 - 12/04/2024 21:26:06
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Why don't they just make their mind up in croke park and have one rule,this mini league stuff is terrible..let it come down to scoring difference and everyone knows exactly where they stand.
CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2379 - 12/04/2024 22:08:34
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Replying To CTGAA10: "Why don't they just make their mind up in croke park and have one rule,this mini league stuff is terrible..let it come down to scoring difference and everyone knows exactly where they stand." Team A squeezes past Team D in Round 1.
By the time Team C plays D, D are out and just fulfil the fixture losing by 15 points.
A, B and C are equal on points.....
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 12/04/2024 23:42:31
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Head to head is the best method of breaking a tie in a league format.
If two teams finish level, the the one that wins the tie between them should finish highest.
Why would allow the team that lost the head to head tie through first, just because they hammered some disinterested team from the bottom of the table in some no nothing match?
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 14/04/2024 10:27:15
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Replying To tirawleybaron: "Head to head is the best method of breaking a tie in a league format.
If two teams finish level, the the one that wins the tie between them should finish highest.
Why would allow the team that lost the head to head tie through first, just because they hammered some disinterested team from the bottom of the table in some no nothing match?" Grand for 2 finishing level but we're talking when 3 or more finish level as may well happen in the Connacht U20 this week.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1960 - 15/04/2024 09:29:14
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!"
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8291 - 15/04/2024 17:19:07
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Replying To legendzxix: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!" The mini league would be confusing for a lot people who just want to know that a game is on. They can just about keep up with the head to head."
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 15/04/2024 19:04:39
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Replying To legendzxix: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!" The mini league would be confusing for a lot people who just want to know that a game is on. They can just about keep up with the head to head."
Galway +8 bet Leitrim by 9 but mayo won by a point
Mayo -3 bet Galway by 1 but lost to Leitrim by 4
Leitrim - 5 lost to Galway by 9 but bet mayo by 4
This would mean that Galway are guaranteed top spot even if mayo or Leitrim won their perspective games by 12 + points?
lugdrum (Leitrim) - Posts: 357 - 15/04/2024 19:56:16
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Speaking of head to heads, they seem to love their head to head rule in Spain. Now I know the table is from 2005, and who knows how the rules have changed since then, but if you scroll down to the second level (Segunda División), you'll see three sets of three teams tied on points, and for two of those trios, the mini-league turned up two teams tied on points, so a second mini-league was needed to break the tie in the first mini-league! Here's the link:
https://www.rsssf.org/tabless/span05.html
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1126 - 15/04/2024 23:51:52
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@lugdrum - I've had a look at that table & results to see exactly what we're talking about here. Just to point out that the Connacht GAA website gives the result of Mayo v Galway as Mayo winning by four points (0-16 to 2-6), not the one point you say, so I'm going to use that. But it doesn't actually make any material difference to the permutations anyway.
So - if Leitrim & Mayo win the last two matches, then Galway, Leitrim, and Mayo finish on five points, and it goes to a mini-league between those three teams. The relevant matches have all already been played and results were:
Galway 2-16, Leitrim 0-13
Mayo 0-16, Galway 2-6
Leitrim 3-12, Mayo 0-16
i.e. each team has won one and lost one in this mini-league, and therefore they have two points each. So it goes to score difference:
Galway +5
Mayo -1
Leitrim -4
So yes, in this instance, Galway would have top spot no matter how much Leitrim and Mayo would beat Roscommon and Sligo by in the final group games.
However, if Roscommon and Mayo win the final group games, then they're the teams finishing on 5 points with Galway and going into the mini-league. Again, all relevant games have already been played, and results were:
Roscommon 1-13, Mayo 3-7 (draw)
Mayo 0-16, Galway 2-6
Galway 0-6, Roscommon 0-6 (draw)
So, in this mini-league, Mayo have 3 points, Roscommon have 2, and Galway have just 1.
Mayo would thus finish top of the table, with Roscommon in second place, and Galway in third.
How do the knock-out stages of this championship work anyway? Is it top two straight to a final, or top four playing semi-finals? Am just curious about exactly how much is at stake!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 16/04/2024 11:10:44
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Replying To KillingFields: " Replying To legendzxix: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Long story short is that for some bizarre reason which I don't understand myself, the new 'mini league' rule for the teams actually level on points applies to club competitions only. It's set out in Section 11 of the 'Codes' part of the Rule Book - https://www.gaa.ie/api/images/image/upload/t_q-best/rm0jrycjasokwfcltlfc.pdf linkFor inter-county competitions, the 'old way' still applies. I had this confirmed by an official here in Wexford as the final round of the NFL approached and we were wondering about it in the Wexford Football thread. I have a feeling though that I never actually posted it there, so apologies to me oul' mate Viking66, who was waiting for an answer!" The mini league would be confusing for a lot people who just want to know that a game is on. They can just about keep up with the head to head."
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8291 - 16/04/2024 18:49:55
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