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Munster Hurling Championship 2024

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "It's difficult to compare different eras. The game has probably moved on more in the last decade than in the previous 5 decades combined.

My argument was I think Kilkenny faced tougher opposition.

Tipp are off the ball altogether, Galway not great, Waterford struggling, Kilkenny poor by their own high standards, Cork disappeared for a few years.

Kilkenny had to contend with some brilliant teams and dominated them all.

To be fair to Limerick they can only beat what's in front of them, but it's not a great era for hurling in general.

I don't think it matters. To meet it looks like Limerick just aren't making any mistakes."
The Munster teams are now learning what it was like to be in Leinster with Kilkenny in the 00's and 10's.
Might catch them the odd day, but they just know how to get the job done most days.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1259 - 13/06/2024 11:01:56    2551144

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "It's difficult to compare different eras. The game has probably moved on more in the last decade than in the previous 5 decades combined.

My argument was I think Kilkenny faced tougher opposition.

Tipp are off the ball altogether, Galway not great, Waterford struggling, Kilkenny poor by their own high standards, Cork disappeared for a few years.

Kilkenny had to contend with some brilliant teams and dominated them all.

To be fair to Limerick they can only beat what's in front of them, but it's not a great era for hurling in general.

I don't think it matters. To meet it looks like Limerick just aren't making any mistakes."
KK didn't particularly dominate the arguably two? 'brilliant' teams they ran into 1999-2019. No, they lost FIVE all-ireland finals to those two sides in 1999, 2004, 2010, 2016 and 2019. Limerick aren't losing any big matches to any team. Their strength, fitness, and conditioning seems to be 'otherworldly' compared to Cody's KK sides. I wonder will 'Kiely' be a bigger bestseller than 'Cody', when it hits the bookshelves. The chapter on Limerick's strength and fitness methodologies well worth a read, if it's a tell all.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 13/06/2024 12:35:52    2551177

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "KK didn't particularly dominate the arguably two? 'brilliant' teams they ran into 1999-2019. No, they lost FIVE all-ireland finals to those two sides in 1999, 2004, 2010, 2016 and 2019. Limerick aren't losing any big matches to any team. Their strength, fitness, and conditioning seems to be 'otherworldly' compared to Cody's KK sides. I wonder will 'Kiely' be a bigger bestseller than 'Cody', when it hits the bookshelves. The chapter on Limerick's strength and fitness methodologies well worth a read, if it's a tell all."
Are you saying that the great KK team was paying for 20 years.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 157 - 13/06/2024 13:07:29    2551188

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Replying To Newyorkkat:  "Are you saying that the great KK team was paying for 20 years."
It certainly felt like it from a rivals standpoint, yes. When are you tagging the greatness years? 2006-2009? The problem with that is Tipp looked as good as them in 2009-2010. No one looks as good as Limerick these days, and even if they were, they're not able to earn the physical platform in games to prove it. Which is a roundabout way of saying, they're not as good.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 13/06/2024 13:47:32    2551199

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "KK didn't particularly dominate the arguably two? 'brilliant' teams they ran into 1999-2019. No, they lost FIVE all-ireland finals to those two sides in 1999, 2004, 2010, 2016 and 2019. Limerick aren't losing any big matches to any team. Their strength, fitness, and conditioning seems to be 'otherworldly' compared to Cody's KK sides. I wonder will 'Kiely' be a bigger bestseller than 'Cody', when it hits the bookshelves. The chapter on Limerick's strength and fitness methodologies well worth a read, if it's a tell all."
They were still in finals the whole time.

The fact that this current Kilkenny team have won 5 Leinsters in a row and are still getting to all Ireland finals every year proves my point. It's not a good era for hurling.

Again that's not to take anything away from Limerick. They're amazing. But they're not being challenged in the same way.

Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team.

Limerick are getting further ahead of Clare and Kilkenny, while Waterford, Tipp, Galway, Wexford etc. Offer no challenge. Jury's out on Cork.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3143 - 13/06/2024 14:57:15    2551216

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "They were still in finals the whole time.

The fact that this current Kilkenny team have won 5 Leinsters in a row and are still getting to all Ireland finals every year proves my point. It's not a good era for hurling.

Again that's not to take anything away from Limerick. They're amazing. But they're not being challenged in the same way.

Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team.

Limerick are getting further ahead of Clare and Kilkenny, while Waterford, Tipp, Galway, Wexford etc. Offer no challenge. Jury's out on Cork."
I wouldn't agree with that. Over the last number of years, Limerick have had to navigate a decent Clare team, a decent Cork team, a decent KK team and a decent Galway team and close games with the aforementioned have demonstrated as such. I mean, what determines the word decent? Is very subjective in my opinion.

This Limerick team are unreal, and in my opinion are currently on a par with the great KK team. If they do the 5 in a row, then they surpass them..again, this is just my opinion.

BTW, you say they had to navigate a decent Wexford team, yet in the Leinster finals from '06 to to '08, Wexford were blown away by KK, so what warrants the term decent? Again, I'm just highlighting the point that it's all subjective

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 349 - 13/06/2024 15:50:06    2551235

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Would you have called that an average Waterford team? Aging maybe.... But in any other era they'd have won an all Ireland.

Brown, McGrath, brick, mullane, shanahan... Best Waterford team I ever saw. Very harsh to call them average."
Doylerwex we have had good teams that were and are to this day way above average. However we did not get over the line and that is what counts. The present team has been as good as most but I think have run their race.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 13/06/2024 16:36:59    2551248

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Would you have called that an average Waterford team? Aging maybe.... But in any other era they'd have won an all Ireland.

Brown, McGrath, brick, mullane, shanahan... Best Waterford team I ever saw. Very harsh to call them average."
Doylerwex we have had good teams that were and are to this day way above average. However we did not get over the line and that is what counts. The present team has been as good as most but I think have run their race.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 13/06/2024 16:38:50    2551250

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "I wouldn't agree with that. Over the last number of years, Limerick have had to navigate a decent Clare team, a decent Cork team, a decent KK team and a decent Galway team and close games with the aforementioned have demonstrated as such. I mean, what determines the word decent? Is very subjective in my opinion.

This Limerick team are unreal, and in my opinion are currently on a par with the great KK team. If they do the 5 in a row, then they surpass them..again, this is just my opinion.

BTW, you say they had to navigate a decent Wexford team, yet in the Leinster finals from '06 to to '08, Wexford were blown away by KK, so what warrants the term decent? Again, I'm just highlighting the point that it's all subjective"
In 2004 we beat Kilkenny. 2005 we only lost by 3 points to them in the final. 2007 we beat Tipp in the AIQF before losing to Kilkenny again. 2008 we only lost to Waterford by a point in the AIQF, they went on to beat Tipp in the AISF. We were decent enough. Just everyone was a good bit off that Kilkenny team.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/06/2024 17:29:00    2551259

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "They were still in finals the whole time.

The fact that this current Kilkenny team have won 5 Leinsters in a row and are still getting to all Ireland finals every year proves my point. It's not a good era for hurling.

Again that's not to take anything away from Limerick. They're amazing. But they're not being challenged in the same way.

Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team.

Limerick are getting further ahead of Clare and Kilkenny, while Waterford, Tipp, Galway, Wexford etc. Offer no challenge. Jury's out on Cork."
"Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team."

Both Offaly and Clare were on the wane after 1998 and in no way could be classified as decent teams in the noughties. Galway were Galway, great one day and nowhere the next. Tipp came good at the end of the decade but from 2001 to 2009 were nowhere to be seen. Cork and Waterford were very strong alright. And what's this about Wexford being decent? Wexford sucker punched KK in 2004. Other than that they hardly burnt a ball during the decade.

That was a mighty Kilkenny team that did the 4-in-a-row, all Cody's teams were, but to say that they had things more difficult than the current Limerick side is nonsense and total nonsense.

Galway, Antrim, or even Kerry weren't in Leinster then. Leinster was a cakewalk every year for Kilkenny once Offaly went into decline. They were in an AI semi-final every year without breaking a sweat. There was no round robin like there is now. I do not know what delusions you're laboring under but your argument is seriously flawed.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 13/06/2024 17:32:40    2551260

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "KK didn't particularly dominate the arguably two? 'brilliant' teams they ran into 1999-2019. No, they lost FIVE all-ireland finals to those two sides in 1999, 2004, 2010, 2016 and 2019. Limerick aren't losing any big matches to any team. Their strength, fitness, and conditioning seems to be 'otherworldly' compared to Cody's KK sides. I wonder will 'Kiely' be a bigger bestseller than 'Cody', when it hits the bookshelves. The chapter on Limerick's strength and fitness methodologies well worth a read, if it's a tell all."
Last year in Munster we lost to Clare, drew with Tipp, should probably have lost to waterford and only beat Cork by a point.
We were a point away from being knocked out of Munster. Clares belligerance about Cork gave us a home Munster final, which helped enormously.

That 1pt win gave Limerick a month off before the All Ireland semi final, which refreshed and rejuvenated them.

I genuinely think that we're not that much fitter, stronger or conditioned than other teams..
I think we're better coached. Lads make the right decision on the pitch 90% of the time.
Kinnerk is a genius and himself and Kiely are a class act together. They've instilled incredible belief in the team.

Take Hegarty as an example.. His own father didn't think he'd make it as an inter County hurler, but he's gone from being a decent under age half back to an all time great half forward..
I think any success we have is down to, to paraphrase you "otherworldly" coaching.. Along with the confidence that success and the experience of winning gives.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1103 - 13/06/2024 17:48:52    2551264

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Replying To foreveryoung:  ""Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team."

Both Offaly and Clare were on the wane after 1998 and in no way could be classified as decent teams in the noughties. Galway were Galway, great one day and nowhere the next. Tipp came good at the end of the decade but from 2001 to 2009 were nowhere to be seen. Cork and Waterford were very strong alright. And what's this about Wexford being decent? Wexford sucker punched KK in 2004. Other than that they hardly burnt a ball during the decade.

That was a mighty Kilkenny team that did the 4-in-a-row, all Cody's teams were, but to say that they had things more difficult than the current Limerick side is nonsense and total nonsense.

Galway, Antrim, or even Kerry weren't in Leinster then. Leinster was a cakewalk every year for Kilkenny once Offaly went into decline. They were in an AI semi-final every year without breaking a sweat. There was no round robin like there is now. I do not know what delusions you're laboring under but your argument is seriously flawed."
Wexford reached 4 All Ireland semi finals between 2001 and 2007, won a Leinster Championship, and lost 2 Leinster finals to Kilkenny by 2-3 points. Wexford also beat Limerick, Waterford and Tipperary in the All Ireland series and too Cork to a replay in the 2003 All Ireland semi final. Maybe check your statement first before posting before gobbing off about Wexford.

Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 200 - 13/06/2024 18:22:34    2551267

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Replying To Jedobi:  "Wexford reached 4 All Ireland semi finals between 2001 and 2007, won a Leinster Championship, and lost 2 Leinster finals to Kilkenny by 2-3 points. Wexford also beat Limerick, Waterford and Tipperary in the All Ireland series and too Cork to a replay in the 2003 All Ireland semi final. Maybe check your statement first before posting before gobbing off about Wexford."
I credited Wexford with your Leinster title in 2004. Any other silverware to mention? I don't celebrate or parade defeat where I come from.

If you have a loser's mentality and like letting us all know that it is something that you're proud of, then so be it!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2095 - 13/06/2024 21:19:45    2551296

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I credited Wexford with your Leinster title in 2004. Any other silverware to mention? I don't celebrate or parade defeat where I come from.

If you have a loser's mentality and like letting us all know that it is something that you're proud of, then so be it!"
6 All Ireland's, 21 Leinster Championships , 4 Leagues...you obviously don't know anything about Wexford.

Jedobi (Wexford) - Posts: 200 - 13/06/2024 21:49:30    2551301

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "I wouldn't agree with that. Over the last number of years, Limerick have had to navigate a decent Clare team, a decent Cork team, a decent KK team and a decent Galway team and close games with the aforementioned have demonstrated as such. I mean, what determines the word decent? Is very subjective in my opinion.

This Limerick team are unreal, and in my opinion are currently on a par with the great KK team. If they do the 5 in a row, then they surpass them..again, this is just my opinion.

BTW, you say they had to navigate a decent Wexford team, yet in the Leinster finals from '06 to to '08, Wexford were blown away by KK, so what warrants the term decent? Again, I'm just highlighting the point that it's all subjective"
I was referring to a little earlier. Wexford were in semi finals in 01, 03, 04, 07. Lost a quarter final by a point in 08.

Lost by 2 points in 02 final, won in 04, lost by 3 in 05. Beat Limerick, Waterford, tipp, drew with Tipp and Cork in that era too. We beat everyone except Kilkenny in 07/08. It was a decent Wexford team.

I also wouldn't say we were blown away in 06. 07/08 finals were awful. 07 aisf was ok.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3143 - 13/06/2024 22:13:51    2551305

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Replying To foreveryoung:  ""Kilkenny had to navigate past a decent Wexford team, a decent Offaly team, a decent Clare team, a very good Waterford team, a very good Galway team, excellent Tipp team, excellent Cork team."

Both Offaly and Clare were on the wane after 1998 and in no way could be classified as decent teams in the noughties. Galway were Galway, great one day and nowhere the next. Tipp came good at the end of the decade but from 2001 to 2009 were nowhere to be seen. Cork and Waterford were very strong alright. And what's this about Wexford being decent? Wexford sucker punched KK in 2004. Other than that they hardly burnt a ball during the decade.

That was a mighty Kilkenny team that did the 4-in-a-row, all Cody's teams were, but to say that they had things more difficult than the current Limerick side is nonsense and total nonsense.

Galway, Antrim, or even Kerry weren't in Leinster then. Leinster was a cakewalk every year for Kilkenny once Offaly went into decline. They were in an AI semi-final every year without breaking a sweat. There was no round robin like there is now. I do not know what delusions you're laboring under but your argument is seriously flawed."
I'm a little surprised at you. Tipp won the all Ireland in 01.....?? Are you being serious?

Kilkenny certainly dominated in that period in Leinster but have Galway really changed that? Wexford are the last ones to beat them in the final the same as it was in 97 and 04. As always, their biggest challenge in the Provence is Wexford. Galway and Offaly aren't really in this equation. No delusion, just reality.

I am open to correction, but I'm 99% sure that Offaly and Clare both contested all Ireland finals in the early 00s if not the end of the 90s. They were in decline, but had serious players at the time.

I've already explained why I thought Wexford were decent from 01-07 so I won't go over that again.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3143 - 13/06/2024 22:22:13    2551307

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I credited Wexford with your Leinster title in 2004. Any other silverware to mention? I don't celebrate or parade defeat where I come from.

If you have a loser's mentality and like letting us all know that it is something that you're proud of, then so be it!"
Showing serious disrespect to a proud hurling county.
Many counties often have decent teams that don't win trophies. You claim to have some affinity with Limerick so you should know that there can be "unlimited heartbreak" between successfull eras.
Unfortunately bandwagonners like yourself don't appreciate tradition and sporting respect between hurling counties.

Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 976 - 13/06/2024 22:59:59    2551312

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Replying To Viking66:  "In 2004 we beat Kilkenny. 2005 we only lost by 3 points to them in the final. 2007 we beat Tipp in the AIQF before losing to Kilkenny again. 2008 we only lost to Waterford by a point in the AIQF, they went on to beat Tipp in the AISF. We were decent enough. Just everyone was a good bit off that Kilkenny team."
I know that, but Cork won the AI's in '04 and '05, and we if we are talking about the great KK team it must be from '06 to '16. My response to Doyler was what warrants the term decent? and tbh, to say all those teams back then were decent, and Limerick's opposition today are not, is simply not true.
People still to this day say Clare won a soft AI in 2013, again, there is no such thing as a soft AI. If you've won won (I haven't but my brother has) then you know what you had to go through to get there, and get over the line.
people will continue to argue who's better, but at the end of the day it doesn't mean s**t. Both teams were and are brilliant.
BTW, Cork after '07 were not decent..

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 349 - 13/06/2024 23:17:34    2551314

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I credited Wexford with your Leinster title in 2004. Any other silverware to mention? I don't celebrate or parade defeat where I come from.

If you have a loser's mentality and like letting us all know that it is something that you're proud of, then so be it!"
Very interesting that an American who apparently supports Limerick in hurling, and Kerry in football, considers himself a winner. It is what it is, I guess!!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 373 - 14/06/2024 00:35:01    2551320

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "I credited Wexford with your Leinster title in 2004. Any other silverware to mention? I don't celebrate or parade defeat where I come from.

If you have a loser's mentality and like letting us all know that it is something that you're proud of, then so be it!"
U don't get medals are trophies for beaten KK in round robin.

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 157 - 14/06/2024 02:33:17    2551326

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