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Senior Football Championship 2024

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "What were the GAA thinking about by making the group draws before the provincial finals… and I don't buy this nonsense of giving teams time to prepare… that's horse d..g… yet another GAA cock up… can they even get the simplest of things right…?"
Its actually crazy, calling it common sense to do it after the provincials is an overstatement, what is there reasoning like?

TobeaRossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 145 - 01/05/2024 10:40:30    2542178

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Replying To yew_tree:  "If it's Mayo v Dublin how about Hyde Park as a neutral venue? No chance. GAA will want maximum profit and that fixture will be in Croke Park."
No chance?

Dublin played their home game in Croker last year in the group and were on the road for their two other games.

The only way the hypothetical Mayo/Dublin neutral game would be in Croker would be if Mayo wanted it to be.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13746 - 01/05/2024 11:27:07    2542190

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "If they don't beat Limerick in their next game they will be the team watching all the other teams in the hurling championship on tv…."
Yeah I agree.I really fancied Cork hurlers to do well this year.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3717 - 01/05/2024 11:38:44    2542196

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To tell you the truth I've given up on anything been done in this country that involves common sense or basic intelligence
Why have the draws for the All Ireland groups before the provincial finals?? 3 teams qualifying form groups of 4 is another joke.
The dogs dinner of a football schedule is another joke, the 2nd tier competition is looked down on so much it's hardly worth playing, the only benefit of winning it is you get into the Sam Maguire the next season to get walloped.
A straight 32 county open draw knockout Sam Maguire competition would be much more exciting instead of the slow death by a thousand cuts shambles it's become.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2824 - 01/05/2024 11:55:48    2542202

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "Belmullet to Roscommon 161km
Dublin to Riscommon 155km"
I think we (if it is us) are due a "neutral" game in a Connacht venue. Roscommon very easy get to for the Dubs…it's only 25mins off the motorway in Athlone. Just been told that the main man at the CCC is a Roscommon man so watch this space.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11278 - 01/05/2024 12:33:43    2542216

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Replying To letsgetgoing:  "Interesting post. As Dublin are playing all their Leinster championship games in Croke Park and will also play their first qualifier game against Roscommon in Croke Park, surely the Gaa would not schedule the NEUTRAL venue for the Dublin match against the Connacht losers ( Mayo / Galway) for Croke Park again. They will lose all credibility if they do so. Its a long way from Belmullet to Croke Park, for example.
I would think a lot of Dublin supporters would also like another day out / weekend away on 15th/16th June."
Why would they do that? they never done it before. Neutral game last year was not in CP, nor will it be this year.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2800 - 01/05/2024 12:39:22    2542217

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If I was Mayo, I'd much rather a crack at the Dubs in the group stages thereby losing on Sunday v Galway.

You get a crack at the Dubs in final game of group stage in neutral venue (if the GAA call Croke Park neutral, they should be shot)
Win and you are into quarter finals and put Dublin into prelims where they would
A) end up playing potentially Derry or Kerry in quarter final and a fair chance they get the 3rd team from group 1 in a prelim would could mean a tough game v Galway, Derry or Donegal/Armagh first.
B) That would mean Dublin cannot play Mayo in quarter final knockout game and it would also reduce risk of Mayo drawing Derry or Kerry in quarter final too as Group 1 has two big games whereas Dublin group will have two winnable games v Rossies and Cavan (not gimmes but easier)

Lose and its not curtains and again you cannot get Dublin again in quarter final. Worst case scenario is Derry or Kerry in quarters.

Percentage play would be get them when its not all on the line in Croke Park.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 228 - 01/05/2024 12:59:54    2542230

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Why would they do that? they never done it before. Neutral game last year was not in CP, nor will it be this year."
I think people are making the point because during the first run of the Super 8s in 2018 & 2019, Dublin played their neutral game and home game in Croke Park. So it's not as if the GAA haven't done it before.

Yes it didn't happen last year during the new format, so one can assume it won't happen again.

hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 215 - 01/05/2024 13:08:48    2542234

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In the current championship format, the provincial draws should be after the league. Use the league for seeding the provincial draws. Sligo last year would then have had Galway or Mayo on their side of the draw.
If GAA HQ persist with provincial runners-up qualifying, provincial runners-up should be seeded by league ranking. Clare last year for example would have been Seed 4 instead. Mayo would have been Seed 2 instead.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8000 - 01/05/2024 18:24:33    2542318

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "To tell you the truth I've given up on anything been done in this country that involves common sense or basic intelligence
Why have the draws for the All Ireland groups before the provincial finals?? 3 teams qualifying form groups of 4 is another joke.
The dogs dinner of a football schedule is another joke, the 2nd tier competition is looked down on so much it's hardly worth playing, the only benefit of winning it is you get into the Sam Maguire the next season to get walloped.
A straight 32 county open draw knockout Sam Maguire competition would be much more exciting instead of the slow death by a thousand cuts shambles it's become."
The Tailteann Cup has been a great addition. For counties with smaller populations or those who would have usually exited the qualifiers in round one or two it can only be a positive thing. Sure look at Down or Kildare who may see themselves above it but for counties like a Fermanagh for instance- winning an all island competition would be huge. Or a county like Antrim last year that got to the semi- finals or Sligo the year before. That gave those teams and fans something to really savour and but for a break of the ball they could have been in the final.

I agree with the 3 teams going through. I can some logic or idea in that there really shouldn't be any dead rubbers as someone should always have something to play for (3rd place or top place and an automatic entry to Q/Final). However the lack of jeopardy is a real issue. But then we have to balance whether the lack of jeopardy is better than a weekend full of dead rubbers where loads of teams have nothing to play for. Personally I prefer just top two go through.

As for the draw it was nonsensical to do it this week. Utterly bizarre. Wait a week and it would have been so much cleaner.

Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 181 - 01/05/2024 19:56:14    2542336

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "To tell you the truth I've given up on anything been done in this country that involves common sense or basic intelligence
Why have the draws for the All Ireland groups before the provincial finals?? 3 teams qualifying form groups of 4 is another joke.
The dogs dinner of a football schedule is another joke, the 2nd tier competition is looked down on so much it's hardly worth playing, the only benefit of winning it is you get into the Sam Maguire the next season to get walloped.
A straight 32 county open draw knockout Sam Maguire competition would be much more exciting instead of the slow death by a thousand cuts shambles it's become."
I hear you, but I'd go one further and start the Division 3 and 4 leagues 1 week before Division 2, and Division 1 a week later. Then open draw between 3 and 4 teams with the winners in an open draw with Division 2 teams and so on. All neutral venues until semi finals. It leaves the lower counties getting more football .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2035 - 01/05/2024 20:01:46    2542337

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Replying To hyperache:  "I think people are making the point because during the first run of the Super 8s in 2018 & 2019, Dublin played their neutral game and home game in Croke Park. So it's not as if the GAA haven't done it before.

Yes it didn't happen last year during the new format, so one can assume it won't happen again."
It's NOT the Super 8s. Dublin did NOT have a neutral game in CP last year. They will NOT have a neutral game in CP this,year.

People can assume anything they wish. It does not make it so.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2800 - 01/05/2024 20:38:45    2542343

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Replying To Saynothing:  "I hear you, but I'd go one further and start the Division 3 and 4 leagues 1 week before Division 2, and Division 1 a week later. Then open draw between 3 and 4 teams with the winners in an open draw with Division 2 teams and so on. All neutral venues until semi finals. It leaves the lower counties getting more football ."
8 lower teams will get 1 game!!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1579 - 01/05/2024 23:27:16    2542361

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Why does a discussion on this year's championship always have a discussion on championship structures running through it? Even though there is another thread on that topic!

Anyway back to this year's flawed championship.

The draw has stitched up Connacht finalists and Ulster R UP and rewarded all Munster and Leinster teams teams for their pi#$ poor performance in their PI#$ POOR CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Their reward will be short lived, if you can get beat Wicklow, or keep Kerry/Dublin to a 3 point lead at half time, you won't make many waves in a round robin unless your opposition is rotating players for the next match.

When Ireland first played in a World Cup, three teams went through from that "group of death" also.
Last year, that gave most teams something to play for.
First place in the group is a big advantage becuase 2nd and 3rd place have to play 3 big matches in 3 weeks to progress to a semi final.
Galway got.badly done last year for not winning their last group match when they looked like they had the group down up.after two games.
Monaghan were the only team who got through to the semis after playing in the prelim qfinals.

The trends from last year will really influence coaches thinking this year.

I have a few predictions for ye.
Group 1 - Should Mayo/Galway lose the first round match v Derry, they will play a 2nd string team in the last group match and might find a second string Donegal/Armagh facing them
Group 2 - I would wager that Mayo/Galway will play a second string team v Dublin in the last round
Group 3 and 4 will go down to the wire for 2/3/4 place.

But in the end up, the q finals will still look something like
Derry v Tyrone
Dublin v Galway
Donegal v Mayo
Kerry v Armagh

With all of the group winnners very likely to get through because they will be well rested.

Yes the system is flawed but I'd have it anyway ahead of the old qualifiers or straight knock out

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1157 - 02/05/2024 04:34:55    2542377

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "8 lower teams will get 1 game!!"
I know but it's against teams of their standards until they go further in championship. It should be knockout but this way gives lower teams a better chance of progressing.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2035 - 02/05/2024 11:26:03    2542430

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Why does a discussion on this year's championship always have a discussion on championship structures running through it? Even though there is another thread on that topic!

Anyway back to this year's flawed championship.

The draw has stitched up Connacht finalists and Ulster R UP and rewarded all Munster and Leinster teams teams for their pi#$ poor performance in their PI#$ POOR CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Their reward will be short lived, if you can get beat Wicklow, or keep Kerry/Dublin to a 3 point lead at half time, you won't make many waves in a round robin unless your opposition is rotating players for the next match.

When Ireland first played in a World Cup, three teams went through from that "group of death" also.
Last year, that gave most teams something to play for.
First place in the group is a big advantage becuase 2nd and 3rd place have to play 3 big matches in 3 weeks to progress to a semi final.
Galway got.badly done last year for not winning their last group match when they looked like they had the group down up.after two games.
Monaghan were the only team who got through to the semis after playing in the prelim qfinals.

The trends from last year will really influence coaches thinking this year.

I have a few predictions for ye.
Group 1 - Should Mayo/Galway lose the first round match v Derry, they will play a 2nd string team in the last group match and might find a second string Donegal/Armagh facing them
Group 2 - I would wager that Mayo/Galway will play a second string team v Dublin in the last round
Group 3 and 4 will go down to the wire for 2/3/4 place.

But in the end up, the q finals will still look something like
Derry v Tyrone
Dublin v Galway
Donegal v Mayo
Kerry v Armagh

With all of the group winnners very likely to get through because they will be well rested.

Yes the system is flawed but I'd have it anyway ahead of the old qualifiers or straight knock out"
Same here.
Give every team an equal no of games, then the best go to the knock out closing stages.
Standard method of most Club Championships and most team sports.

I'd hazard a guess in the future we'll have 3 tier Inter County Championships with promotion/relegation with the League and Provincials as 2 separate stand alone competitions.

Like the women have been doing for years.
Those clever girls can also use a hooter timing system which the GAA can't (despite voting for it years ago).

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1579 - 02/05/2024 11:42:05    2542438

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Same here.
Give every team an equal no of games, then the best go to the knock out closing stages.
Standard method of most Club Championships and most team sports.

I'd hazard a guess in the future we'll have 3 tier Inter County Championships with promotion/relegation with the League and Provincials as 2 separate stand alone competitions.

Like the women have been doing for years.
Those clever girls can also use a hooter timing system which the GAA can't (despite voting for it years ago)."
You might be right there - three AIC tiers and stand alone Provincials.
Like hurling though, I'd like Provincial matches in football to award group points as well.
There are two main benefits to that - Provincial ties are more valuable and teams could play in a bigger AIC group/league phase without extra matches (say, Tier 1 with 12 teams, all playing 11 games, inclusive of any Provincial ties).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2701 - 02/05/2024 19:03:51    2542525

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Why does a discussion on this year's championship always have a discussion on championship structures running through it? Even though there is another thread on that topic!

Anyway back to this year's flawed championship.

The draw has stitched up Connacht finalists and Ulster R UP and rewarded all Munster and Leinster teams teams for their pi#$ poor performance in their PI#$ POOR CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Their reward will be short lived, if you can get beat Wicklow, or keep Kerry/Dublin to a 3 point lead at half time, you won't make many waves in a round robin unless your opposition is rotating players for the next match.

When Ireland first played in a World Cup, three teams went through from that "group of death" also.
Last year, that gave most teams something to play for.
First place in the group is a big advantage becuase 2nd and 3rd place have to play 3 big matches in 3 weeks to progress to a semi final.
Galway got.badly done last year for not winning their last group match when they looked like they had the group down up.after two games.
Monaghan were the only team who got through to the semis after playing in the prelim qfinals.

The trends from last year will really influence coaches thinking this year.

I have a few predictions for ye.
Group 1 - Should Mayo/Galway lose the first round match v Derry, they will play a 2nd string team in the last group match and might find a second string Donegal/Armagh facing them
Group 2 - I would wager that Mayo/Galway will play a second string team v Dublin in the last round
Group 3 and 4 will go down to the wire for 2/3/4 place.

But in the end up, the q finals will still look something like
Derry v Tyrone
Dublin v Galway
Donegal v Mayo
Kerry v Armagh

With all of the group winnners very likely to get through because they will be well rested.

Yes the system is flawed but I'd have it anyway ahead of the old qualifiers or straight knock out"
What was wrong with the old qualifiers?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 02/05/2024 20:22:42    2542535

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Replying To Galway9801:  "What was wrong with the old qualifiers?"
Prior to the qualifiers, winning a provincial title got you to a semi final.

After the qualifiers came in, the likes of Kildare, Roscommon, Monaghan, Cork found that not only did they have to take down a traditional power house in their own province but they would get hit with another one who arrived through the qualifiers.
Essentially, it was good for the strong counties.

The reason everyone got tired of it was as the qualifiers developed, they ultimately produced the same 4 semi finalists (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone). The strongest counties figured it out.
The COVID year (of no qualifiers) being the most equitable Al Ireland for 15 years.

The qualifiers ultimately gave longer summers and more to the stronger counties, allowing them develop higher levels of performance and teamwork by virtue of the no of training sessions and games they played as a group.

That resulted in bigger and bigger mismatches in the qualifiers as weaker teams just hadn't the same work done, year on year.

The new system (for all its faults) gives all counties more time together, allowing them develop as a group and ultimately improve their standard, hopefully closing the gap to the stronger counties

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1157 - 05/05/2024 15:45:57    2543134

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Prior to the qualifiers, winning a provincial title got you to a semi final.

After the qualifiers came in, the likes of Kildare, Roscommon, Monaghan, Cork found that not only did they have to take down a traditional power house in their own province but they would get hit with another one who arrived through the qualifiers.
Essentially, it was good for the strong counties.

The reason everyone got tired of it was as the qualifiers developed, they ultimately produced the same 4 semi finalists (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone). The strongest counties figured it out.
The COVID year (of no qualifiers) being the most equitable Al Ireland for 15 years.

The qualifiers ultimately gave longer summers and more to the stronger counties, allowing them develop higher levels of performance and teamwork by virtue of the no of training sessions and games they played as a group.

That resulted in bigger and bigger mismatches in the qualifiers as weaker teams just hadn't the same work done, year on year.

The new system (for all its faults) gives all counties more time together, allowing them develop as a group and ultimately improve their standard, hopefully closing the gap to the stronger counties"
As far as I'm aware, winning a provincial championship in the new system doesn't even get you to a quarter final, never mind a semi final.

And I've seen no evidence that the new system is going to produce any new all Ireland champions or contenders. In fact the new system allows the traditional powers to lose even MORE games and still reach a final. All that stuff about allowing teams the chance to gel together etc applies as much to the strong counties as the weak ones.

The covid year, which resulted in yet another Dublin mayo final btw, was no more equitable than 2010, 2003 and 2004 were also good years for the underdog.

I just think the new system is too drawn out. I thought the old qualifiers struck a nice balance between giving teams a second chance and not having a bloated schedule.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 05/05/2024 18:25:46    2543178

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