National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To Whammo86:  "You've the league to warm up for championship. Why is it triple elimination then.

We have gotten to this point because we keep doing small changes around the edges but I don't know that if you zoom out what we're going to have next year makes a whole lot of sense."
Yeah, sure look it is the reality of it. The league has become established. The provincial championships are like a protected species. The Derry example last year where they were still in the championship after 3 losses was kind of the tipping point where there was a collective decision between Croke Park and the county boards that 3 losses should mean end of the road.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9631 - 10/07/2025 16:18:46    2624849

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Yeah, sure look it is the reality of it. The league has become established. The provincial championships are like a protected species. The Derry example last year where they were still in the championship after 3 losses was kind of the tipping point where there was a collective decision between Croke Park and the county boards that 3 losses should mean end of the road."
There isn't a "the championship"
There are 6 Inter County SFCs - 4 Provincials and Sam/TC.
A Munster SHC team could lose 3 of the 4 games and still qualify for AI.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 10/07/2025 16:57:09    2624858

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "There isn't a "the championship"
There are 6 Inter County SFCs - 4 Provincials and Sam/TC.
A Munster SHC team could lose 3 of the 4 games and still qualify for AI."
There are six alright. Across the provincial championships and All Ireland championship - there was a negative reaction to Derry, a high profile after winning Division 1, losing 3 games but still being in the hunt.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9631 - 10/07/2025 17:23:26    2624862

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Yeah, sure look it is the reality of it. The league has become established. The provincial championships are like a protected species. The Derry example last year where they were still in the championship after 3 losses was kind of the tipping point where there was a collective decision between Croke Park and the county boards that 3 losses should mean end of the road."
There is no particular logic in saying that three losses is too much. It doesn't apply in hurling where you can have three losses and win the All Ireland.

The football league is as much a qualifying tournament for the All Ireland as the provincials are so why are provincial losses counted as part of this notional threshold of losses whereas league losses are not.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 173 - 10/07/2025 17:25:16    2624863

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The change away from group stages came about because, while its ok to watch teams to give half arsed effort in league and have miss matches in provincial championships (admittedly reduced this year), everyone got on their high horse about miss matches in the All Ireland round robin and having to look at Derry going around losing matches to every half decent team they played, yet somehow making a quarter final.

The new system will come in, and be fine - never to be complained about again no doubt.

However, the lopsided provincials and league that no one wants to win (except Dublin and & Kerry), will continue to be a point of contention.

Jarlath burns has openly stated he wants to move the all ireland final to the end of August, cutting off the amount of time for club championships again.

The only way he will get that over the line is by moving the club interprovincials into the following year.
If that happens, they will have to be played during the league.
For that to happen, the league will have to be modified by reverting to an older format (a) 1999 to 2007, or (b) 2021.
Option (a) will remove the pressure to stay up from the current div 1 and lower div 3 teams, but wont take the pressure of the teams currently ranked 12-18.
Option (b) allows the intercounty season start later, giving December and January off for the majority of intercounty players (and less costs for counties). It gives 2 months for the intercounty clubs fixtures to be in the spotlight and returns the club finals to St Patricks day. It also matches the GAA intercounty season with the AFL season, thus making it easier to arrange international rules (if the GAA even want that)

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1736 - 10/07/2025 18:10:18    2624869

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "There is no particular logic in saying that three losses is too much. It doesn't apply in hurling where you can have three losses and win the All Ireland.

The football league is as much a qualifying tournament for the All Ireland as the provincials are so why are provincial losses counted as part of this notional threshold of losses whereas league losses are not."
The hurling folks often say hurling is different!
The main gripe really was against 3 from 4 advancing. Derry losing 3 across Ulster and their first two group games last year was another stick to beat the perceived lack of jeopardy format with.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9631 - 10/07/2025 18:28:17    2624877

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "There is no particular logic in saying that three losses is too much. It doesn't apply in hurling where you can have three losses and win the All Ireland.

The football league is as much a qualifying tournament for the All Ireland as the provincials are so why are provincial losses counted as part of this notional threshold of losses whereas league losses are not."
It was part of a campaign by HQ and the new President against the Round Robin system, aided by media.
Then HQ suddenly sent out 4 proposals to Counties saying one of them was their preferred option.....
Arm twisting or what!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 10/07/2025 18:56:22    2624884

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There are six alright. Across the provincial championships and All Ireland championship - there was a negative reaction to Derry, a high profile after winning Division 1, losing 3 games but still being in the hunt."
For what it's worth, with 3 losses, Derry woud still have to win 5 games to claim Sam - straight KO PQF, QF, SF & F, after 1 group win.
Is '5 & 3' worthy of an AI Champ in either code?
Maybe not, given the traditional KO for more than a century.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3385 - 10/07/2025 23:11:27    2624907

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "It was part of a campaign by HQ and the new President against the Round Robin system, aided by media.
Then HQ suddenly sent out 4 proposals to Counties saying one of them was their preferred option.....
Arm twisting or what!"
3 from 4 was a lame format. Fair play to Cavan for making their group exciting. Cork lost their first game and their second. Winning 1 from 3 to qualify is a low percentage. Next year the round 1 losers have no more safety nets.
With the free weekend likely to be utilised after the league finals, round 2B losers will still exit the championship at the same weekend as Round 3 this year. Round 3 losers next year will still exit the championship at the same weekend as the pre quarter finals this year. Teams won't be knocked out any earlier timewise, just a safety net is being removed and all rounds before the All Ireland quarter finals will be a week later.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9631 - 11/07/2025 07:12:34    2624917

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The hurling folks often say hurling is different!
The main gripe really was against 3 from 4 advancing. Derry losing 3 across Ulster and their first two group games last year was another stick to beat the perceived lack of jeopardy format with."
Derry could have done exactly the same and progressed even if it were two from four going through.

CeachtPeile (Cavan) - Posts: 173 - 11/07/2025 10:08:30    2624933

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Replying To legendzxix:  "3 from 4 was a lame format. Fair play to Cavan for making their group exciting. Cork lost their first game and their second. Winning 1 from 3 to qualify is a low percentage. Next year the round 1 losers have no more safety nets.
With the free weekend likely to be utilised after the league finals, round 2B losers will still exit the championship at the same weekend as Round 3 this year. Round 3 losers next year will still exit the championship at the same weekend as the pre quarter finals this year. Teams won't be knocked out any earlier timewise, just a safety net is being removed and all rounds before the All Ireland quarter finals will be a week later."
All positive points.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3385 - 11/07/2025 14:00:43    2624971

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Replying To CeachtPeile:  "Derry could have done exactly the same and progressed even if it were two from four going through."
Absolutely. Lower possibility though.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9631 - 11/07/2025 17:07:59    2625001

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The Championship is about to commence this weekend with the opening games in the Provincials. An inherent issue with the K.O nature of the Provincials is the prolonged length of time that teams losing early on go without competitive game time. At the same time teams progressing will have a balanced spread out game schedule. The K.O nature of the Provincials therefore contribute to an unbalanced fixture scheduling calendar. Armagh are meeting Tyrone this Sunday in the Preliminary Round of the Ulster Championship. The loser will not play again until May 23/24 or May 30/31 in Round 1 of the A.I.C. Meanwhile the winner has potentially 3 more games before the loser plays again. That scheduling screams unbalanced.

Also the brutal reality is that there are teams that will play just 3 more games for the remainder of the season having already played the vast majority [7/8] in the first 10 weeks of the season in the N.L. It does come across as rather unusual in sport that a secondary competition takes up such a large chunk of the overall season at the expense of the primary one.

It is possible to organize the season in such a way that the secondary competition [N.L] is reduced in game time and the Championship is revamped to give all teams a decent and balanced number of meaningful games. In recent years the Provincial Championships have become less relevant as regards qualification for the A.I.C for the top sides as they are already qualified through their League placing before the commencement of the Provincials.

There could be a number of ways of rebalancing the football season while sticking to the current time frame. The recent push in some quarters in adding an extra 2 weeks to the overall G.A.A inter county season was totally unwarranted as there an adequate number of weeks to complete the current schedule. A common argument is that the season is too condensed but in reality this is just not the case. In the 27 week season the most games any team will play will be in or around 16- 18 games and the least amount would be 10. What is probably meant is the season is condensed in relation to when it stretched out towards the end of September.

What follows is a breakdown of the schedule for a football season. There are no large gaps between games with 3 weeks being the maximum and even this is kept to a minimum. The number of games a team plays in the N.L are reduced while teams will play more Championship games. The Provincials become front and centre as the sole route to qualifying for the A.I.C. The full article is published below.




View the full article here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQRUXE4SRbj-_mxGxSOm7HNeWc6OVnL1ISGAifcVE019QNuNFt1wa5NJZplF1sxA55WuOOYP_REoBgS/pub

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 125 - 07/04/2026 23:41:25    2665176

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Replying To edu:  "The Championship is about to commence this weekend with the opening games in the Provincials. An inherent issue with the K.O nature of the Provincials is the prolonged length of time that teams losing early on go without competitive game time. At the same time teams progressing will have a balanced spread out game schedule. The K.O nature of the Provincials therefore contribute to an unbalanced fixture scheduling calendar. Armagh are meeting Tyrone this Sunday in the Preliminary Round of the Ulster Championship. The loser will not play again until May 23/24 or May 30/31 in Round 1 of the A.I.C. Meanwhile the winner has potentially 3 more games before the loser plays again. That scheduling screams unbalanced.

Also the brutal reality is that there are teams that will play just 3 more games for the remainder of the season having already played the vast majority [7/8
in the first 10 weeks of the season in the N.L. It does come across as rather unusual in sport that a secondary competition takes up such a large chunk of the overall season at the expense of the primary one.

It is possible to organize the season in such a way that the secondary competition [N.L] is reduced in game time and the Championship is revamped to give all teams a decent and balanced number of meaningful games. In recent years the Provincial Championships have become less relevant as regards qualification for the A.I.C for the top sides as they are already qualified through their League placing before the commencement of the Provincials.

There could be a number of ways of rebalancing the football season while sticking to the current time frame. The recent push in some quarters in adding an extra 2 weeks to the overall G.A.A inter county season was totally unwarranted as there an adequate number of weeks to complete the current schedule. A common argument is that the season is too condensed but in reality this is just not the case. In the 27 week season the most games any team will play will be in or around 16- 18 games and the least amount would be 10. What is probably meant is the season is condensed in relation to when it stretched out towards the end of September.

What follows is a breakdown of the schedule for a football season. There are no large gaps between games with 3 weeks being the maximum and even this is kept to a minimum. The number of games a team plays in the N.L are reduced while teams will play more Championship games. The Provincials become front and centre as the sole route to qualifying for the A.I.C. The full article is published below.




View the full article here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQRUXE4SRbj-_mxGxSOm7HNeWc6OVnL1ISGAifcVE019QNuNFt1wa5NJZplF1sxA55WuOOYP_REoBgS/pub"]I think your analysis of some of the big issues with the current format is spot on.

I'd say there's a bit too much of a Provincial element in your solution but some interesting ideas.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4621 - 10/04/2026 11:18:37    2665544

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