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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To omahant:  "@legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8037 - 22/06/2024 11:45:37
That looks great. With 18 weeks shown (1-16, 0 & -1), presumably then, the 7 league games prior have no more than one bye week?"
Yes, the national football league would remain as it is. 1, 2, rest weekend, 3, 4, 5, rest weekend, 6, 7 and league finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 22/06/2024 14:44:39    2553605

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Honestly I really think they can barely coexist and that's borne out by the way things have played out over the last 2 years.

The Tailteann has been a bright spot in the skate up but there are just too many matches.

8 for league, 4 rounds of Provincial and 7 rounds of championship is really working that well.

There's no room for competitions to breathe.

It's been messy try to keep them all relevant and there's conflict being created by trying to do so.

It's so painfully obvious to me that trying to have our cake and eat it is causing huge issues."
I'd like to see what the year looks like when the GAA decide to move the All Ireland finals back to the end of August. That would give the competitions a bit more time to breath. If the All Ireland Groups were being played in July instead of June, I think a lot of the negativity would evaporate. While I believe there are plenty of other decent formats out there - at the moment its very hard to separate the gripes around the current championship format from the gripes around the split season not working.

Within the current structure I'd also like to see the provincial championships get played along side the league. That would allow all teams to see exactly what they are playing for. Something like - Provincial rounds 1 & 2 - then start the league; after 4 league games play the provincial Semi finals - then finish up the league with the provincial finals to follow its conclusion.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 352 - 24/06/2024 15:29:42    2554459

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Replying To brianb:  "I'd like to see what the year looks like when the GAA decide to move the All Ireland finals back to the end of August. That would give the competitions a bit more time to breath. If the All Ireland Groups were being played in July instead of June, I think a lot of the negativity would evaporate. While I believe there are plenty of other decent formats out there - at the moment its very hard to separate the gripes around the current championship format from the gripes around the split season not working.

Within the current structure I'd also like to see the provincial championships get played along side the league. That would allow all teams to see exactly what they are playing for. Something like - Provincial rounds 1 & 2 - then start the league; after 4 league games play the provincial Semi finals - then finish up the league with the provincial finals to follow its conclusion."
Yeah there's a lot to like about a system like that.

I'd sort of also think that having some club weekends in there too could be workable.

2 league
1 provincial
2 club rounds (1 per each code)

As a repeating pattern of games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 24/06/2024 16:47:11    2554491

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With Jarlath flying kites about returning back to September and wanting to cut down the expenditure of financing GAA teams and over-training, I think first and foremost we should look at redefining the GAA calendar again.

GAA giving all of August when soccer and rugby is in offseason is a total own goal. Also trying to get hype into championship is hard with the current style of championship.

I'd be in favour of.
-County clubs running from mid September to November.
-December is completely fallow period across association.
-January=Sigerson
-Feb=Club Provincial Championships
-March pre season
-St Patricks Day=All Ireland Club Finals
-Rest of March & April=Provincial Championships
May until end of August/September play whatever new format you want be it league, groups, whatever. Ideally a combination of the National Football league feeding into a knockout All Ireland series. That would be 19-20 weekends for your competition.


eg National league Div 1A & 1B-Groups (Six teams instead of 8). Top teams in each go into semi final. 3rd plays 2nd from opposite division for other two semi final places in all ireland Quarter Final. Bottom sides in each group go into relegation playoff against each other and are replaced by Tailteann Cup Champion.

Every game is crucial and played in local stadiums at height of summer. Clubs still get same time to run their club championships off and we restore All Ireland Club final day at Croker on Patricks Day.

Note with this system league games would be released in January so everyone knows exactly where they will be playing for nearly every game. One further incentive could be added to make the five league games be two home, two away and 1 neutral (Option to have a Croke Park weekend for neutral weekend). If you win your province, you can have 1 extra home game as reward. Bar that, there would be no extra benefits to winning province bar the glory of trophy.

Trophies would also be given out for winning Div 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B & Div 3 (new Div 4 below Tailteann Cup)

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 286 - 24/06/2024 17:19:25    2554498

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@shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 243 - 24/06/2024 17:19:25

You started out with 1A/1B of equal rank with 3 from each advancing to AIC KO, but ended by giving a trophy to both group winners as if they are different ranks.
I think you intend 3 ranks - (6,6), (6,6) and (8).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 24/06/2024 17:53:52    2554508

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I heard Jarlath Burns asking were were the dual counties going to get the 14 weeks they need to run off their club championships?
that was his excuse for not moving the All Ireland finals back to Sept and he asked if somebody could tell him were the dual counties could find these 14 weeks??
I'm surprised nobody pointed it out to him that there are 52 weeks in the year? what's the problem like?

Another thing I noticed again when they are making the draw on morning Ireland, they don't show them drawing the teams from the bowl, they zoom in on the peoples faces and background, I mean what is the point of televising the draw if they don't show the draw??

And another thing I might as well get off my chest when I'm at it, we are scheduled to play Louth at 1.15pm on Sunday,
that's a very early start for people travelling from Donegal, why couldn't the games on Sunday be on at the same time as the games on Saturday or at least a bit later on Sunday?
Could it be that they want the GAA matches finished in time so they can televise their beloved euro soccer tournament that Ireland aren't even playing in?
Of course Saturdays quarter finals are behind a paywall, grab all you can boys before the concert season starts in Croker.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3028 - 24/06/2024 19:30:34    2554532

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I heard Jarlath Burns asking were were the dual counties going to get the 14 weeks they need to run off their club championships?
that was his excuse for not moving the All Ireland finals back to Sept and he asked if somebody could tell him were the dual counties could find these 14 weeks??
I'm surprised nobody pointed it out to him that there are 52 weeks in the year? what's the problem like?

Another thing I noticed again when they are making the draw on morning Ireland, they don't show them drawing the teams from the bowl, they zoom in on the peoples faces and background, I mean what is the point of televising the draw if they don't show the draw??

And another thing I might as well get off my chest when I'm at it, we are scheduled to play Louth at 1.15pm on Sunday,
that's a very early start for people travelling from Donegal, why couldn't the games on Sunday be on at the same time as the games on Saturday or at least a bit later on Sunday?
Could it be that they want the GAA matches finished in time so they can televise their beloved euro soccer tournament that Ireland aren't even playing in?
Of course Saturdays quarter finals are behind a paywall, grab all you can boys before the concert season starts in Croker."
The intercounty season is 27 weekends long.

You need 10 weeks for the Provincial and All Ireland club.

There's at least 2 weeks lost on Christmas and New Year.

That's only 13 weeks left then.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 24/06/2024 21:35:27    2554564

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County leagues are nearing completion in a lot of counties at the moment, in parallel with the All-Ireland Senior Championships. The only way to extend the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship, and allow fair time for the club championships, is to complete the county championships mid September to mid December.
The provincial club championships and All-Ireland club championships would have to be completed from early January to March. The early rounds of the Allianz Football League would have to be played without club players.
This would involve decoupling the league from championship. I think Burns is dropping hints about this, talking about the league being there for incremental improvements.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 24/06/2024 21:53:07    2554573

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Replying To legendzxix:  "County leagues are nearing completion in a lot of counties at the moment, in parallel with the All-Ireland Senior Championships. The only way to extend the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship, and allow fair time for the club championships, is to complete the county championships mid September to mid December.
The provincial club championships and All-Ireland club championships would have to be completed from early January to March. The early rounds of the Allianz Football League would have to be played without club players.
This would involve decoupling the league from championship. I think Burns is dropping hints about this, talking about the league being there for incremental improvements."
I'd definitely think the league should be decoupled and the Provincial and Club All Ireland played in parallel to it.

It'd be a raw deal though for club players to have their championships pushed back to later in the year and have people not playing serious matches in the better weather.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 25/06/2024 10:34:58    2554666

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I'd definitely think the league should be decoupled and the Provincial and Club All Ireland played in parallel to it.

It'd be a raw deal though for club players to have their championships pushed back to later in the year and have people not playing serious matches in the better weather."
My understanding is that club players are at least ok with the club championships starting in September. That would mean the final two weekends of August for the hurling and football All-Ireland finals. Whether the finals could extend to the first and second weekends of September is debatable. If the football final is played on the second weekend of September, it does leave 14 weeks for club championships. The provincial club and All-Ireland club championships can then run from early January until the traditional St. Patrick's Day finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 25/06/2024 10:59:08    2554676

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Replying To legendzxix:  "My understanding is that club players are at least ok with the club championships starting in September. That would mean the final two weekends of August for the hurling and football All-Ireland finals. Whether the finals could extend to the first and second weekends of September is debatable. If the football final is played on the second weekend of September, it does leave 14 weeks for club championships. The provincial club and All-Ireland club championships can then run from early January until the traditional St. Patrick's Day finals."
Playing County Finals in mid December!!!!!
Ah here......

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 25/06/2024 11:20:57    2554684

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It hasn't applied to Derry but one thing that really annoys me about a summer final is the school kids don't get a big build up all week in school. There is something special about all the kids getting to wear their jerseys into school and having some fun in the build up. It's only a small thing in the grand scheme but I just find it really unfortunate.

For me the current system is an utter mess but it has potential if some aspects are fixed. Hopefully that will be the case for next year. The preliminary quarter finals have to go. The season needs stretched out by a few weeks. A few other small details mentioned in this thread would be helpful like the Tailteann semi finals being moved from Croke Park or being coupled with Sam Maguire matches.

Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 210 - 25/06/2024 11:24:28    2554686

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Replying To Jazzyjeff:  "It hasn't applied to Derry but one thing that really annoys me about a summer final is the school kids don't get a big build up all week in school. There is something special about all the kids getting to wear their jerseys into school and having some fun in the build up. It's only a small thing in the grand scheme but I just find it really unfortunate.

For me the current system is an utter mess but it has potential if some aspects are fixed. Hopefully that will be the case for next year. The preliminary quarter finals have to go. The season needs stretched out by a few weeks. A few other small details mentioned in this thread would be helpful like the Tailteann semi finals being moved from Croke Park or being coupled with Sam Maguire matches."
Yes the schools build up again is bad from a marketing perspective. Especially as we grow as a country. People with no GAA background can be enveloped into the sense of pride of a county and grow supporter base and helps with integration. Getting the flags up and creating that sense of community.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 286 - 25/06/2024 12:05:54    2554698

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One thing about the current championship structure of more games in groups and the whole fact we just played 24 group games to reduce from 16 to 12 teams.

Unfortunately, this reflects a broader trend in sports, where authorities try to maximize revenue at the expense of the quality of the competition. For instance, FIFA's decision to expand the World Cup from 32 to 48 teams is another example. Similarly, look at the ongoing Euros:


-24 teams
-6 groups
-36 matches to eliminate a third of the teams

Result= great for Uefa as they get another 12 group matches and 8 knockout matches. Smaller teams, like Scotland and potentially Ireland, may find it easier to qualify, but the overall product suffers.

Theres basically little jeopardy for the big guns. Even Italy were likely to still qualify if they had not equalised to Croatia. A single win against Albania would have been enough. Back in 2000 Germany and England were in same group and both got eliminated from the group stage. We don't see that type of groups anymore with that kind of excitement. Euros with 16 teams was actually super competitive.

Now the competition does not begin until the knockouts really and even winning the group doesnt actually give you any meaningful advantage any more.

It does not excuse the GAA, they are looking around and following what they see. However the big difference is we don't have 30-40K fans to fill every match so the cons outway the positives giving us more games in a shorter space of time that lack that true bite of jeopardy.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 286 - 25/06/2024 12:20:33    2554703

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Replying To shaggykev:  "Yes the schools build up again is bad from a marketing perspective. Especially as we grow as a country. People with no GAA background can be enveloped into the sense of pride of a county and grow supporter base and helps with integration. Getting the flags up and creating that sense of community."
On this sort of point also. Club not really running at the same intensity during the county season isn't great either.

My level of interest in all aspects of GAA was always highest when I was most tuned to into my own upcoming games.

We'd be excited for county games as we were training for our own games.

I really think splitting the season hasn't been the right way to go and just scheduling things better was a better choice.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 25/06/2024 12:25:49    2554705

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Playing County Finals in mid December!!!!!
Ah here......"
Possibly but something has to give!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 25/06/2024 15:36:07    2554796

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Replying To Whammo86:  "On this sort of point also. Club not really running at the same intensity during the county season isn't great either.

My level of interest in all aspects of GAA was always highest when I was most tuned to into my own upcoming games.

We'd be excited for county games as we were training for our own games.

I really think splitting the season hasn't been the right way to go and just scheduling things better was a better choice."
The GAA could have the club and inter-county seasons seasons intertwined with a requirement that a player is only eligible for his county if he played for his club as well.

This would prevent the County Manager from putting the club schedule on hold, although when playing for his club, there is no guarantee he'd go full throttle to avoid injury.

There is no easy solution - making counties "super clubs", like rugby's provinces, is a non starter but would solve a lot of problems. If a player was eligible for one or the other only, both seasons could easily run in parallel.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2886 - 25/06/2024 19:05:28    2554840

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Instead of having a Club Season and a County Season ,why dont we have a Club and County teams. At start of each year the County Manager pick a panel of 30 players ,who then only play for County while on that panel, if they get injured or leave panel then they can be replaced on panel. The club competitions can then be run whenever the County Boards want them run. The County teams competitions then can be run over a longer period , with plenty of rest for the players between games and not having to play in terrible weather in January and February. Players picked on County panel dont play Club football while on that panel. Great to have All Ireland Final again in September, plus not having games every week for a short period and then nothing for rest of year.

jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 448 - 25/06/2024 21:09:13    2554851

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Replying To jacktheboy:  "Instead of having a Club Season and a County Season ,why dont we have a Club and County teams. At start of each year the County Manager pick a panel of 30 players ,who then only play for County while on that panel, if they get injured or leave panel then they can be replaced on panel. The club competitions can then be run whenever the County Boards want them run. The County teams competitions then can be run over a longer period , with plenty of rest for the players between games and not having to play in terrible weather in January and February. Players picked on County panel dont play Club football while on that panel. Great to have All Ireland Final again in September, plus not having games every week for a short period and then nothing for rest of year."
Players on county panels play very little club football as it is….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 25/06/2024 22:32:21    2554862

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A variant of an older option would be a 6 week break after the league finals for club championships in April and the first half of May. Intercounty championships then from mid May to mid September.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8282 - 26/06/2024 13:19:43    2554955

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