National Forum

Players Transferring Clubs To Win Medals

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "All right, so. I'll go back to one of my examples here in Wexford.

Ferns St. Aidans, mainly a hurling club, in a decent-sized village but could in no way be regarded as "a town club". Despite the fact that they're mainly hurling, they're one of only a handful of clubs in Wexford who field three adult men's football teams.

I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing they maybe struggle a bit sometimes for players to make up their Junior 'B' team. Now say somebody moves into Ferns who used to play a bit of football somewhere else, but gave it up for the past few years, and now thinks that joining the club would be a good way to get know a few local people around his new home. Junior 'B' would be his natural level.

You're still saying he shouldn't be allowed to transfer in and play?"
3 teams means no transfers in… there will always be casualties no matter what rules are brought in in all walks of life… just get on with it and find another club that is obviously in more need of players..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 30/08/2024 10:08:54    2567628

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Theres a lot of good players trapped in Clubs going nowhere due to parish rule. Is it right a very good player is stuck with a club playing junior that can hardly put out a team and get no more than 6 or 7 at training ?"
Re. The parish rule, what does it mean? Is it the civil parish or is it a parish as defined by a religious denomination?
Any one of these is vastly different in size or area to the other in most cases.

backtooldwall (Galway) - Posts: 138 - 30/08/2024 10:41:43    2567633

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "You mean the best paying team?"
Nonsense. Get out away from the keyboard and get a life CC. Maybe you will be a happier and less cynical man;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 30/08/2024 10:55:16    2567638

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "If the proper rule like I suggested was in place then he couldn't join them…. It's only making the bigger clubs stronger and the smaller clubs weaker… All about the money…..!"
Looking at it from his point of view why shouldn't he join them when he moved to Dublin? Are you suggesting he should play Junior football instead? He's not a Junior standard player. If he picked a Junior club how do you think that would have made all the other clubs in that grade feel?
Also even I would definitely question what his motives were for doing that, and probably reach the conclusion that they must be paying him!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 30/08/2024 10:59:36    2567639

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Theres a lot of good players trapped in Clubs going nowhere due to parish rule. Is it right a very good player is stuck with a club playing junior that can hardly put out a team and get no more than 6 or 7 at training ?"
If we got rid of the parish rule then a good few clubs would likely cease to exist in a very short period of time. That would be very bad for communities across Ireland, and for the GAA as a whole.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 30/08/2024 11:01:48    2567640

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Replying To Ayardout:  "John Heslin here in Westmeath is from about 10+ miles outside mullingar his local club was junior B so always played for lomans but drove by about 4 lower senior/ intermediate clubs. Half lomans team is the same. How dominant would Lomans have been without them ?"
There's no parish rule in Westmeath, if there was you wouldn't have more than 12/14 teams. John Heslins case is no different to a lot of lads in Westmeath. Where he's nearest team is they're a junior 2 outfit. Young players from there play with an amalgamation of three clubs through all underage grades. The problem arises at u12/14 level when the bigger clubs start concentrating on the better players and you start loosing the so called lesser lights, late developers who can't get games or are unused subs.
There is plenty of the smaller rural clubs crying out for numbers yet parents persist going to the big clubs where the children might be the 35th best player out of forty five young lads and seldom get picked or proper coaching as they become passengers to the better players. Come the few minutes out of mullingar or athlone and get the chance of more game time.
Plenty of young lads and young ones don't flourish till they are 15/16.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 30/08/2024 11:18:22    2567644

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "3 teams means no transfers in… there will always be casualties no matter what rules are brought in in all walks of life… just get on with it and find another club that is obviously in more need of players.."
What exactly is wrong with the rules we already have on this, if applied properly?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 30/08/2024 11:23:49    2567646

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "3 teams means no transfers in… there will always be casualties no matter what rules are brought in in all walks of life… just get on with it and find another club that is obviously in more need of players.."
If I wasn't already sure of it, I'd now be absolutely convinced that you don't even think yourself about what you're saying.

"Find another club that is obviously in more need of players," you say. Maybe have a think about it now?

In the example I gave, you wouldn't let that lad join Ferns since they have three teams. Your "solution" is for him to find another club instead.

Clubs in nearly villages like Monageer, Camolin, Craanford, and Kilrush all only have one or two football teams, so by your latest so-called rationale, he should join one of them.

But now you'd have a lad who's not from any of those places, doesn't live in any of those places, and has no connection to any of those places, being told to join a club in one of them, because that's the "right" thing to do?

This is every bit as funny as the stuff you were coming out with on the Hawkeye thread!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 30/08/2024 11:33:39    2567651

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "There's no parish rule in Westmeath, if there was you wouldn't have more than 12/14 teams. John Heslins case is no different to a lot of lads in Westmeath. Where he's nearest team is they're a junior 2 outfit. Young players from there play with an amalgamation of three clubs through all underage grades. The problem arises at u12/14 level when the bigger clubs start concentrating on the better players and you start loosing the so called lesser lights, late developers who can't get games or are unused subs.
There is plenty of the smaller rural clubs crying out for numbers yet parents persist going to the big clubs where the children might be the 35th best player out of forty five young lads and seldom get picked or proper coaching as they become passengers to the better players. Come the few minutes out of mullingar or athlone and get the chance of more game time.
Plenty of young lads and young ones don't flourish till they are 15/16."
john Heslin's father went to America for work. When they came back he played for a year with Mullingar Shamrocks. His two sisters also wanted to play football - so they chose St Loman's in the end. The family farm is in Cuillion so going the back road to Lomans isnt a long trip

ExiledCuCu (Cavan) - Posts: 239 - 30/08/2024 13:11:02    2567663

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Theres a lot of good players trapped in Clubs going nowhere due to parish rule. Is it right a very good player is stuck with a club playing junior that can hardly put out a team and get no more than 6 or 7 at training ?"
I agree with you there, especially as well if these clubs have no ambitions to improve either. A person's playing career is short enough.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2085 - 30/08/2024 13:19:56    2567666

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "If I wasn't already sure of it, I'd now be absolutely convinced that you don't even think yourself about what you're saying.

"Find another club that is obviously in more need of players," you say. Maybe have a think about it now?

In the example I gave, you wouldn't let that lad join Ferns since they have three teams. Your "solution" is for him to find another club instead.

Clubs in nearly villages like Monageer, Camolin, Craanford, and Kilrush all only have one or two football teams, so by your latest so-called rationale, he should join one of them.

But now you'd have a lad who's not from any of those places, doesn't live in any of those places, and has no connection to any of those places, being told to join a club in one of them, because that's the "right" thing to do?

This is every bit as funny as the stuff you were coming out with on the Hawkeye thread!"
Then just let everyone transfer willy nilly anywhere they like and make the big clubs stronger and put the weakest out of existence… that's what you seem to want… I was only looking for solutions to stop the likes of Kilmacud buying in player's to win titles… You in your wisdom have come up with absolutely nothing… and by the way what I said about Hawk Eye is absolutely correct….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 30/08/2024 13:20:38    2567667

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "If I wasn't already sure of it, I'd now be absolutely convinced that you don't even think yourself about what you're saying.

"Find another club that is obviously in more need of players," you say. Maybe have a think about it now?

In the example I gave, you wouldn't let that lad join Ferns since they have three teams. Your "solution" is for him to find another club instead.

Clubs in nearly villages like Monageer, Camolin, Craanford, and Kilrush all only have one or two football teams, so by your latest so-called rationale, he should join one of them.

But now you'd have a lad who's not from any of those places, doesn't live in any of those places, and has no connection to any of those places, being told to join a club in one of them, because that's the "right" thing to do?

This is every bit as funny as the stuff you were coming out with on the Hawkeye thread!"
Then just let everyone transfer willy nilly anywhere they like and make the big clubs stronger and put the weakest out of existence… that's what you seem to want… I was only looking for solutions to stop the likes of Kilmacud buying in player's to win titles… You in your wisdom have come up with absolutely nothing… and by the way what I said about Hawk Eye is absolutely correct….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 30/08/2024 13:23:44    2567669

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That should say nearby villages in my post above, not nearly villages.

The places I mentioned are indeed villages, not just nearly ones!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 30/08/2024 13:46:41    2567673

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Then just let everyone transfer willy nilly anywhere they like and make the big clubs stronger and put the weakest out of existence… that's what you seem to want… I was only looking for solutions to stop the likes of Kilmacud buying in player's to win titles… You in your wisdom have come up with absolutely nothing… and by the way what I said about Hawk Eye is absolutely correct…."
But your "solutions" for one type of situation are black and white proof of how you're not considering what their consequences would be for other situations.

I in my wisdom know it's better not to put forward "solutions" unless they're workable ones that are unlikely to have any undesired and unintentional consequences. You in your "wisdom" seem unable to grasp that.

Let me ask you a simple yes/no question:
Johnny from Cavan moves to Ferns in Wexford and wants to play a bit of Junior 'B' football with the club there. Would you really tell him "no Johnny, that's not allowed, in case another top inter-county player wants to join a big Dublin club next year or the year after" ?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 30/08/2024 15:06:15    2567689

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Replying To ExiledCuCu:  "john Heslin's father went to America for work. When they came back he played for a year with Mullingar Shamrocks. His two sisters also wanted to play football - so they chose St Loman's in the end. The family farm is in Cuillion so going the back road to Lomans isnt a long trip"
Ah ya might brush up on the auld geography there me good man.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 97 - 30/08/2024 15:46:48    2567698

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "But your "solutions" for one type of situation are black and white proof of how you're not considering what their consequences would be for other situations.

I in my wisdom know it's better not to put forward "solutions" unless they're workable ones that are unlikely to have any undesired and unintentional consequences. You in your "wisdom" seem unable to grasp that.

Let me ask you a simple yes/no question:
Johnny from Cavan moves to Ferns in Wexford and wants to play a bit of Junior 'B' football with the club there. Would you really tell him "no Johnny, that's not allowed, in case another top inter-county player wants to join a big Dublin club next year or the year after" ?"
If such a rule was brought in then Johnny would have to accept it…. Maybe proof of permanent residence and employment could be considered in such cases but if Johnny is only fit for Junior B with Ferns he more than likely wouldn't be put out much either way.. The rule should be more stringent on inter county standard players joining big clubs with multiple teams to choose from…If these type of clubs can field 3 senior adult teams then such players joining is a big no no …

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 30/08/2024 16:40:19    2567713

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Replying To 2maroonjerseys:  "There's no parish rule in Westmeath, if there was you wouldn't have more than 12/14 teams. John Heslins case is no different to a lot of lads in Westmeath. Where he's nearest team is they're a junior 2 outfit. Young players from there play with an amalgamation of three clubs through all underage grades. The problem arises at u12/14 level when the bigger clubs start concentrating on the better players and you start loosing the so called lesser lights, late developers who can't get games or are unused subs.
There is plenty of the smaller rural clubs crying out for numbers yet parents persist going to the big clubs where the children might be the 35th best player out of forty five young lads and seldom get picked or proper coaching as they become passengers to the better players. Come the few minutes out of mullingar or athlone and get the chance of more game time.
Plenty of young lads and young ones don't flourish till they are 15/16."
Love how you made sure to be inclusive by putting "young ones" in that last sentence ;)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 30/08/2024 18:19:45    2567718

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Ciaran Kirwan and Michael Harney in Waterford put in a transfer to Clonea because there clubs were concentrating on football. Both inter county players. The CCCC turned it down and an appeal. They appealed twice up the ladder and their appeal succeeded with it sent back to Waterford. Again it was turned down in Waterford. Now both are playing in Glenmore. I don't know how that worked as I thought Kilkenny had parish rule. What madness from Waterford to cause two players of this quality abort to another county.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 30/08/2024 22:22:25    2567731

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Replying To Canuck:  "Ciaran Kirwan and Michael Harney in Waterford put in a transfer to Clonea because there clubs were concentrating on football. Both inter county players. The CCCC turned it down and an appeal. They appealed twice up the ladder and their appeal succeeded with it sent back to Waterford. Again it was turned down in Waterford. Now both are playing in Glenmore. I don't know how that worked as I thought Kilkenny had parish rule. What madness from Waterford to cause two players of this quality abort to another county."
That sounds like a silly decision…. I know if counties who have a loan system so that players with no team to play for can go to a neighbouring club to say play hurling and continue to play football with their own club… It's a temporary transfer

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 31/08/2024 09:19:14    2567766

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "If such a rule was brought in then Johnny would have to accept it…. Maybe proof of permanent residence and employment could be considered in such cases but if Johnny is only fit for Junior B with Ferns he more than likely wouldn't be put out much either way.. The rule should be more stringent on inter county standard players joining big clubs with multiple teams to choose from…If these type of clubs can field 3 senior adult teams then such players joining is a big no no …"
I see you're not answering the question either way. Trying to dodge it with just "If such a rule was brought in".

And your attitude of "look Johnny, you'd only be playing Junior B football with what's mainly a hurling club, so you shouldn't be put out much about it" is ludicrous.

Anyway, I'll try asking one more time:
Would you or would you not bring in a rule that a club can't accept transfers if they already have three or more adult teams, despite the effect it would have on people like Johnny here?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 31/08/2024 12:47:38    2567787

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