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Some thoughts I didn't have time to post as I had to away straight after the club draw and didn't get time to post until now, and still havent had time to watch the game back as Im not home yet-
-Second slow start in 2 League games, not sure why, but we were second to the ball and seemed to lose most of the 50/50s especially in the 1st 20 minutes.
-Good intensity in the 2nd half, and we built it up towards the end, always encouraging to finish games strongly.
-Tackling is still an issue, loose and high hurls etc, and we still haven't got the cuteness other teams seem to have. Offaly bought frees all night.
Ref seemed inconsistent. Having watched back video clips of the Jacko incident both lads should've been sent off. Not sure why some lads on this thought it was a harsh red, helmet and face guard interference is a straight red. Poor out of Jacko with his experience to react as he did. Why didn't he just push the lad down on his backside or something.
-The players need to start paying more attention to Keith on the sideline. Offaly pushed their lads up on our backs. Who kept running into Offalys packed midfield/half forward line and getting turned over. Then we gave away easy scores or fouled to give away easy frees. There was acres of space between Offalys full and half back lines which Keith repeatedly asked the lads to hit the ball into. We only started doing this towards the end.
-Offaly are on their way back.
-Memories of 1998 when they got their goal.
-But our lads got back into it to force the draw with 13 men. They didn't quit.
-well though many of the lads have played so far this season, especially the fullback line but all the lads really, they are still physically small mostly and it will likely need another couple of years S and C before they will all be able to compete physically with some of the larger lads on other teams.
-Anyway, the lads still haven't lost a game all season including all the preseason games I went to, and that's very encouraging. Momentum is a great force in hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 14:46:34
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Replying To Timbertony: "Not sure about the half back line based on first two games, Paudie Foley is a big loss still. Hearne tries hard but his use of the ball is very mixed. Three balls in a row in second half he made a mess of including a really poor wide. Needs to be a lot sharper on the ball when he gets it.
Physically it's clear some of our lads are still a bit off being able to compete at this level. But our 26 later this year will be stronger for giving these lads game time in tight games in Feb. Age old problem of the lack of a scoring threat still there, we never look like hitting mid to late 20s scores." Just watched Clare v Waterford and they only scored around 20 points. Cork and Kilkenny not much more. What we scored would be around average this time of year.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 15:56:41
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Replying To beano: "If Foley continues his form, I wonder could we slot Jippo into centre-back? Then look at a starting sextet of:
Murphy/Eoin Ryan C.Foley S.Reck
MOH/Molloy L.Ryan D.Reck
I'd rather Ryan's experience and consistency there, in the most important position in modern day, than a relative rookie, especially when you look at the incumbents in the position across the other counties. You get away with being an emerging full-back (Huw Lawlor and Jippo himself were around Foley's age when they locked down 3). But I agree that Reck looks better as a wing-back or disrupter, doesn't have the overall presence at 6." What about Devitt and Donohue?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 15:57:51
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Replying To baire: "Galway: total number of county and club ALL Irelands at senior level, football and hurling = 35" What have the club AIs got to do with the OP?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 15:58:26
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Replying To Viking66: "What about Devitt and Donohue?" Both escaped me, and certaintly options in the corner too.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1530 - 11/02/2024 16:09:13
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For me, I want shut-down corner backs rather than stickmen. We aren't blessed with a Barry Nash or Mickey Butler who can do both. Let 2-3-4-6 hold and allow 5-7 constantly join the attack with one of the midfielders providing cover if needed. But it's imperative that they win their battles too.
And in that regard, Shane Reck is our best out-and-out defender, and actually Damien would be excellent in that role too.
Actually, would the below work?:
S.Reck C.Foley D.Reck
L.Ryan MOH, take your pick
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1530 - 11/02/2024 16:17:36
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Replying To Viking66: "Just watched Clare v Waterford and they only scored around 20 points. Cork and Kilkenny not much more. What we scored would be around average this time of year." Dublin vs Antrim the same. All very close games too.
Tipp and Galway are 15 12 heading into half time though. Great shooting for a fairly scrappy game
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4377 - 11/02/2024 16:21:43
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Replying To beano: "If Foley continues his form, I wonder could we slot Jippo into centre-back? Then look at a starting sextet of:
Murphy/Eoin Ryan C.Foley S.Reck
MOH/Molloy L.Ryan D.Reck
I'd rather Ryan's experience and consistency there, in the most important position in modern day, than a relative rookie, especially when you look at the incumbents in the position across the other counties. You get away with being an emerging full-back (Huw Lawlor and Jippo himself were around Foley's age when they locked down 3). But I agree that Reck looks better as a wing-back or disrupter, doesn't have the overall presence at 6." Definitely think Ryan worth a go at 6. He's a fine athlete, well able to break a tackle and distributes the ball well. We need a presence at 6, he could provide that.
There's a lot of talk imo going about about comparing the two games last night. Our game was played in awful conditions for starters. If KK were really at it in the first half they would have beaten Cork out of sight, Cork like ourselves started off poor. Cork still reliant on likes of Horgan and Lehane too. We played against KK and drew, fortunate maybe not to have lost on the last play with the mishit free. Last night Donohue going for glory in last play cost us a win, narrative then would have been about the never say die attitude. Small margins!
Looking ahead, I've also been very impressed by Casey. He's strong on the ball, movement is excellent and can take a score. Mac has it all to do to get his spot back. Kevin Foley is showing very well and Chin I thought showed great leadership skills in the second half. Rory will get the other inside forward spot if fit. That leaves three forward places up for grabs and both midfield ones really. Hearne tries hard but decisions on the ball are very suspect, horrible wide in second half. Corey great that hes getting a chance but a bit short physically. Likely to be more of an option off the bench I'd say. The two Gorey lads not really impressing at wing back so far, Molloy has missed out on a couple of years S&C and it shows. Donohue will get a chance at 5 now with McGuckian suspended. The 2 x Recks, Foley and Ryan likely 4 of the back 6 with two up for grabs and Murphy doing well so far.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 534 - 11/02/2024 16:35:39
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To be fair to some of the forwards, it's hard to score at senior inter-county level if you haven't got years of S&C work behind you, you saw it with Screeney last night who was completely marked out of it after the first ten minutes. Cian Byrne will probably be too light to start in the Championship this summer but it's for the best long-term that he gets thrown in at the deep end right now. I wouldn't be worried about CBD's scoring power either, he'll score more when he fills out, just think we're wasting him in the corner as he needs space out the field to do damage, a bit like Jamie Barron for me.
I don't think I'd be too inclined to read too much into our scoring capabilities based on a game in terrible conditions like that, it's not as if other teams are scoring that much more than us from play right now. It has definitely been a concern in the past, I won't deny that, but we can't really judge it off the games so far in 2024.
And there's too much hand-wringing going on here as well, Limerick struggled to shrug Westmeath off for a long time and Waterford were the same with Offaly last week, we probably would would have come away with the win had we not been a man down.
Finally, I think it was a mistake not to have Gavin Bailey in the panel, he is the one of the few players in the county with both some Championship experience as a starter and an ability to set the tone in the midfield, he pretty much guarantees a decent level of intensity in the middle third right from the get-go
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1013 - 11/02/2024 17:05:38
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Replying To Viking66: "Some thoughts I didn't have time to post as I had to away straight after the club draw and didn't get time to post until now, and still havent had time to watch the game back as Im not home yet-
-Second slow start in 2 League games, not sure why, but we were second to the ball and seemed to lose most of the 50/50s especially in the 1st 20 minutes.
-Good intensity in the 2nd half, and we built it up towards the end, always encouraging to finish games strongly.
-Tackling is still an issue, loose and high hurls etc, and we still haven't got the cuteness other teams seem to have. Offaly bought frees all night.
Ref seemed inconsistent. Having watched back video clips of the Jacko incident both lads should've been sent off. Not sure why some lads on this thought it was a harsh red, helmet and face guard interference is a straight red. Poor out of Jacko with his experience to react as he did. Why didn't he just push the lad down on his backside or something.
-The players need to start paying more attention to Keith on the sideline. Offaly pushed their lads up on our backs. Who kept running into Offalys packed midfield/half forward line and getting turned over. Then we gave away easy scores or fouled to give away easy frees. There was acres of space between Offalys full and half back lines which Keith repeatedly asked the lads to hit the ball into. We only started doing this towards the end.
-Offaly are on their way back.
-Memories of 1998 when they got their goal.
-But our lads got back into it to force the draw with 13 men. They didn't quit.
-well though many of the lads have played so far this season, especially the fullback line but all the lads really, they are still physically small mostly and it will likely need another couple of years S and C before they will all be able to compete physically with some of the larger lads on other teams.
-Anyway, the lads still haven't lost a game all season including all the preseason games I went to, and that's very encouraging. Momentum is a great force in hurling." It's typical Wexford hurling for you. They go out one day and shoot down the biggest gun in town! The next day they fire blanks when they're the hot favorites!
For example, did Wexford ever beat Offaly in the 1980s? They put away many a good KK team back then, but couldn't get out of Leinster afterwards to save their life!
foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2484 - 11/02/2024 17:30:40
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Dublin vs Antrim the same. All very close games too.
Tipp and Galway are 15 12 heading into half time though. Great shooting for a fairly scrappy game" Watched the Tipp Galway game. Am watching back ours now. Ours was played at a lot faster pace. And I take it back Jacko was a bit unlucky I'm not sure he could see where he was reaching out.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 18:31:51
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Replying To beano: "For me, I want shut-down corner backs rather than stickmen. We aren't blessed with a Barry Nash or Mickey Butler who can do both. Let 2-3-4-6 hold and allow 5-7 constantly join the attack with one of the midfielders providing cover if needed. But it's imperative that they win their battles too.
And in that regard, Shane Reck is our best out-and-out defender, and actually Damien would be excellent in that role too.
Actually, would the below work?:
S.Reck C.Foley D.Reck
L.Ryan MOH, take your pick" Davy played Damien in the corner alot. But with Carty and Foley away I think we need Damien in the halfback line.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 18:33:10
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Replying To foreveryoung: "It's typical Wexford hurling for you. They go out one day and shoot down the biggest gun in town! The next day they fire blanks when they're the hot favorites!
For example, did Wexford ever beat Offaly in the 1980s? They put away many a good KK team back then, but couldn't get out of Leinster afterwards to save their life!" Offaly were winning AIs at the time Foreveryoung they reached 3 finals winning 2 in the 80s, a decade where Galway were the best team and the big 3 were still the big 3, all 3 winning AIs also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 18:39:03
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One thing that has got alot better over the last few games compared to the last 2 years is the wide count. Hope we can keep that up come championship!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 19:30:20
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Wasn't going to get carried away with a Walsh Cup game so not going to get carried away with a league game either. Still dissapointing to draw to a Joe McDonagh team, with all due respect. We still haven't got to gripes that all the teams at Joe McDonagh level do look to the Wexford game as the one to target and we don't seem to ever learn from that, never say Wexford have arrogance about them but maybe we do get lulled into a sense of superiority. I don't think we ever really put a team to the sword since maybe Offaly in 2018 maybe? Could be wrong on that. But we don't have the ability to hammer a team say the way Kilkenny, Galway, Tipp would but still we can't seem to sake these teams at all but winning by 7/8 points is well capable against teams who are used to operating at a tier below us. Someone, a neutral, said to me that these teams nearly do to us what we do to Kilkenny, dont full agree with that but can see where he's coming from. Lot went against us and all but I thought we'd have enough quality to see it home. The same neutral did say it's because of those games that Wexford don't get too much attention when it comes to people making calls on teams who can go far in an all Ireland race. Unitll we start winning these games and not just holding on and falling over line, Antrim almost caught us last year too cus we couldn't sake them.
Still on a positive note, undefeated but, on a more down beat note, really should be two wins from two and now we do face very trong possibility of relegation. We don't make it eas on ourselves. I do take the point Offaly are coming but nearly all of their u20 team is underage for next 2 year. Nice to see them going well and looking very fit (although hope they don't return to haunt Wexford like the 80s/90s!!) And would be a huge plus for Leinster and hurling as a whole.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 11/02/2024 20:21:22
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Replying To Viking66: "One thing that has got alot better over the last few games compared to the last 2 years is the wide count. Hope we can keep that up come championship!" 100%, it appears they've definitely buckled up in that department. It's a huge help, hopefully thy keep that up.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 11/02/2024 20:42:54
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "Wasn't going to get carried away with a Walsh Cup game so not going to get carried away with a league game either. Still dissapointing to draw to a Joe McDonagh team, with all due respect. We still haven't got to gripes that all the teams at Joe McDonagh level do look to the Wexford game as the one to target and we don't seem to ever learn from that, never say Wexford have arrogance about them but maybe we do get lulled into a sense of superiority. I don't think we ever really put a team to the sword since maybe Offaly in 2018 maybe? Could be wrong on that. But we don't have the ability to hammer a team say the way Kilkenny, Galway, Tipp would but still we can't seem to sake these teams at all but winning by 7/8 points is well capable against teams who are used to operating at a tier below us. Someone, a neutral, said to me that these teams nearly do to us what we do to Kilkenny, dont full agree with that but can see where he's coming from. Lot went against us and all but I thought we'd have enough quality to see it home. The same neutral did say it's because of those games that Wexford don't get too much attention when it comes to people making calls on teams who can go far in an all Ireland race. Unitll we start winning these games and not just holding on and falling over line, Antrim almost caught us last year too cus we couldn't sake them.
Still on a positive note, undefeated but, on a more down beat note, really should be two wins from two and now we do face very trong possibility of relegation. We don't make it eas on ourselves. I do take the point Offaly are coming but nearly all of their u20 team is underage for next 2 year. Nice to see them going well and looking very fit (although hope they don't return to haunt Wexford like the 80s/90s!!) And would be a huge plus for Leinster and hurling as a whole." We hammered Laois in 2021. Waterford really struggled to get over them in the qualifiers, Laois' next game. We put a good few points on Kerry in 2022 also. They were championship games though. As regards the League we were comfortable enough in our games against lower ranked opposition the last 2 years, although we only had 1 a year, Offaly and Westmeath.
As regards Offaly they had a good u20 side in 2016 which reached the Leinster final. They also reached the Leinster minor final in 2020, it wasn't just the 2022 minors that have improved Offalys future prospects.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 21:19:02
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Replying To Viking66: "We hammered Laois in 2021. Waterford really struggled to get over them in the qualifiers, Laois' next game. We put a good few points on Kerry in 2022 also. They were championship games though. As regards the League we were comfortable enough in our games against lower ranked opposition the last 2 years, although we only had 1 a year, Offaly and Westmeath.
As regards Offaly they had a good u20 side in 2016 which reached the Leinster final. They also reached the Leinster minor final in 2020, it wasn't just the 2022 minors that have improved Offalys future prospects." Wasn't a good team in 2016, lost u21 final by a nice bit and only Ben Connelly was only starter from that team yesterday. Eoghan Cahil was in goals for that u21 final but not playing, Oisin Kelly out injured long term too but played that final. Leinster final team in 2020 was good team and made up part of team that got to u20 all Ireland last year. My bad, I forgot those results but still stand everything I said and the fact that lower teams target us as the winnable game and have gotten results v us and part of reason why there's that almost dissmissive nature to Wexford. Even the great record v Kilkenny nearly used as a tag line v us,how they can beat Kilkenny but can't beat Westmeath. We almost did get relegated to Joe McDonagh last year so I don't think it's too crazy to see why other higher counties or analysts give Wexford too much credit.....but there is a very very easy answer to that, win those games and in those games v lower counties, try send out a message and try win by as much as possible cus that perception of Wexford can be caught by lower teams is out there.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 11/02/2024 22:36:22
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Replying To Viking66: "We hammered Laois in 2021. Waterford really struggled to get over them in the qualifiers, Laois' next game. We put a good few points on Kerry in 2022 also. They were championship games though. As regards the League we were comfortable enough in our games against lower ranked opposition the last 2 years, although we only had 1 a year, Offaly and Westmeath.
As regards Offaly they had a good u20 side in 2016 which reached the Leinster final. They also reached the Leinster minor final in 2020, it wasn't just the 2022 minors that have improved Offalys future prospects." To be fair, I don't really think that Offaly U21 team in 2016 were that great and wouldn't have been anywhere near the quality of last year's U20 team, that 2016 team were the beneficiaries of being on the very weak side of the draw
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1013 - 11/02/2024 22:36:31
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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin: "Wasn't a good team in 2016, lost u21 final by a nice bit and only Ben Connelly was only starter from that team yesterday. Eoghan Cahil was in goals for that u21 final but not playing, Oisin Kelly out injured long term too but played that final. Leinster final team in 2020 was good team and made up part of team that got to u20 all Ireland last year. My bad, I forgot those results but still stand everything I said and the fact that lower teams target us as the winnable game and have gotten results v us and part of reason why there's that almost dissmissive nature to Wexford. Even the great record v Kilkenny nearly used as a tag line v us,how they can beat Kilkenny but can't beat Westmeath. We almost did get relegated to Joe McDonagh last year so I don't think it's too crazy to see why other higher counties or analysts give Wexford too much credit.....but there is a very very easy answer to that, win those games and in those games v lower counties, try send out a message and try win by as much as possible cus that perception of Wexford can be caught by lower teams is out there." That's the point. The narrative is out there despite us beating all those lower ranked counties pretty comprehensively over the last 7 years, except Westmeath twice and to a lesser extent Antrim, who managed a draw against us in that time. Bearing in mind they beat Clare the year they drew with us.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19011 - 11/02/2024 23:10:57
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