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Wexford Hurling thread 2024

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I get what you mean but in fairness I don't think anyone is saying the likes of oisin or conal will replace Chin or McGovern.

I think oisin Foley is savagely underrated. He's well able to win his own ball and make his own scores. If he was playing and chipping in 3 points a game that would be enough to be a nailed on starter. The goal he got in nowlan park is a great example of his ability. Straight to the hand, turn, sprint, rattle the net. And lord knows we need size.

Here's a question for everyone. Is it better to try make gifted hurlers stronger, or make big lads into hurlers?"
It's both really.

But the reality is gifted hurlers don't become gifted by what they do in the club or what they do in development squad. We are obsessed with more games and more training in reality

Ist what they do in the back garden and what they do in the street.

How do we develop more of that, I'm not sure if I'm being honest

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1379 - 25/06/2024 09:48:22    2554648

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Replying To tearintom:  "It's both really.

But the reality is gifted hurlers don't become gifted by what they do in the club or what they do in development squad. We are obsessed with more games and more training in reality

Ist what they do in the back garden and what they do in the street.

How do we develop more of that, I'm not sure if I'm being honest"
Agreed lads need to practice at home more. But I did notice any of the lads who went on the winter A S.H. programme last year from our club were more inclined to practice at home during the other evenings of the week as they had hurling on the mind still. We also ran another night for u12s at the club on the large Astro every Tuesday, alternating football and hurling, over the winter, and attendance was excellent at this too. If you don't provide more training and games there's less incentive for lads to practice at home.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 25/06/2024 10:09:55    2554654

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I get what you mean but in fairness I don't think anyone is saying the likes of oisin or conal will replace Chin or McGovern.

I think oisin Foley is savagely underrated. He's well able to win his own ball and make his own scores. If he was playing and chipping in 3 points a game that would be enough to be a nailed on starter. The goal he got in nowlan park is a great example of his ability. Straight to the hand, turn, sprint, rattle the net. And lord knows we need size.

Here's a question for everyone. Is it better to try make gifted hurlers stronger, or make big lads into hurlers?"
Good question Doyler.
The obvious answer would be of course to do both.
At intercounty strength and power is paramount.
Take Limerick and Kilkenny, they are mostly very tall, big musselled and speed merchants.
They constantly work on their game. Always trying to improve. Always emptying the tank and always looking at their weak areas and working on them.
They strive for perfection and never think they have done enough no matter how good they have played. That's why they are so successful. The key to fulfilling your ambitions in any walk of life is never accepting that you have done enough. Everybody can improve and that must include mind and body.
We as a county are not blessed with big hurlers.
There are a few exceptins, like Chin, Jippo and Matt but we quite simply don't have enough. We must then play to our strengths and plan a system that suits the not so tall players. We do that to some extent but it needs improving.
Yes Doyler, both aspects of what you refer to are possible but it will only happen through hard work. Constantly examining the way we play and believing that we can and will reach our goals.
You can't make big lads good hurlers unless they are willing to listen to their mentors and tweak what needs to be tweaked.

Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 371 - 25/06/2024 10:38:28    2554669

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Replying To Viking66:  "We need to do both. Donal Maloneys Bio banding at underage is the way forwards."
What's bio banding out of interest?

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 25/06/2024 11:45:00    2554691

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "What's bio banding out of interest?"
For training and in house games seperate younger lads into bigger and smaller, hence bio banding, so smaller lads aren't getting run through/over by bigger ones as they might grow later, and bigger lads have to hone their skills more as they are playing on other bigger lads and can't just rely on their size. By evening up the size then players have to get or be more skilful to stand out and get selected going forwards. Also the opposite can be true, smaller trickier lads can make bigger more awkward lads look like they have no potential as hurlers down the line. Donal Maloney in Clare though all this through. Gifted coach.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 25/06/2024 12:41:34    2554711

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "What's bio banding out of interest?"
For training and in house games seperate younger lads into bigger and smaller, hence bio banding, so smaller lads aren't getting run through/over by bigger ones as they might grow later, and bigger lads have to hone their skills more as they are playing on other bigger lads and can't just rely on their size. By evening up the size then players have to get or be more skilful to stand out and get selected going forwards. Also the opposite can be true, smaller trickier lads can make bigger more awkward lads look like they have no potential as hurlers down the line. Donal Maloney in Clare though all this through. Gifted coach.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 25/06/2024 12:48:13    2554713

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Anyone else feel Seamus Casey got a bit of a raw deal this year? Played the league and was out best forward. Had a bad day out against Dublin and was hardly seen again. Came on against Clare and got a lovely point.
Charlie Mcguckian is not a forward. I don't get why they play him there. Our half forward line was not competitive against Clare. I think they were hoping he'd win ball in the air. The reality is we aren't at the same standard as Clare. That Clare team is solid throughout, We have a number of areas where we struggle and we need every player available to us yet every year we seem to lose players or have injuries or get a player sent off.

the_post (USA) - Posts: 186 - 25/06/2024 12:56:56    2554722

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Replying To Magpie2:  "Good question Doyler.
The obvious answer would be of course to do both.
At intercounty strength and power is paramount.
Take Limerick and Kilkenny, they are mostly very tall, big musselled and speed merchants.
They constantly work on their game. Always trying to improve. Always emptying the tank and always looking at their weak areas and working on them.
They strive for perfection and never think they have done enough no matter how good they have played. That's why they are so successful. The key to fulfilling your ambitions in any walk of life is never accepting that you have done enough. Everybody can improve and that must include mind and body.
We as a county are not blessed with big hurlers.
There are a few exceptins, like Chin, Jippo and Matt but we quite simply don't have enough. We must then play to our strengths and plan a system that suits the not so tall players. We do that to some extent but it needs improving.
Yes Doyler, both aspects of what you refer to are possible but it will only happen through hard work. Constantly examining the way we play and believing that we can and will reach our goals.
You can't make big lads good hurlers unless they are willing to listen to their mentors and tweak what needs to be tweaked."
Think the best example of this in wexford is Chin who was nt the best hurler when younger but had all the other attributes that made him competive . Speed size ball winning etc . Bur he worker harder on his gsme to be the hurler he is now . Tried football with wexford and loi soccer as they need same attributes and being natural athlete was on the radar fir them and came back to hurling raw but made up ground . Question is would he be the player he is if he never tried the others and returned knowing how he needed to improve . Or if he'd stuck to hurling only from the start would he have realised he needed to improve .
Point is we need to recognise the physical attributes needed and see if they can be measured and coached to next level of hurling . Think wexford coaching have come to the conclusion and measure all things needed to get the percentage up on the whole package in players . Its just deciding which attributes are most important and needed to get to next level . No point in picking big athlete if no coordination or likely to improve on it . Gone scientific but there will always be a place or 2 for the smaller gifted hurler who can compete in all areas too in the percentage table too just can't carry too many of them on one team. .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 216 - 25/06/2024 14:12:38    2554762

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Replying To the_post:  "Anyone else feel Seamus Casey got a bit of a raw deal this year? Played the league and was out best forward. Had a bad day out against Dublin and was hardly seen again. Came on against Clare and got a lovely point.
Charlie Mcguckian is not a forward. I don't get why they play him there. Our half forward line was not competitive against Clare. I think they were hoping he'd win ball in the air. The reality is we aren't at the same standard as Clare. That Clare team is solid throughout, We have a number of areas where we struggle and we need every player available to us yet every year we seem to lose players or have injuries or get a player sent off."
Problem for Seamus was Mac came back and played well in parts. I don't think Seamus and Mac would work that well together, it's probably an either/or scenario with them. Neither would be fast, but Mac has more size. Tbh Seamus really upped his workrate this year, and maybe should've come on for Mac earlier in the games against Kilkenny and Clare. Byrne offered a bit more pace and workrate than Mac or Chin, and the other problem playing Mac and Chin inside was we just resorted to really poor long ball inside, which heavily favoured the backs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 25/06/2024 14:34:53    2554769

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Replying To the_post:  "Anyone else feel Seamus Casey got a bit of a raw deal this year? Played the league and was out best forward. Had a bad day out against Dublin and was hardly seen again. Came on against Clare and got a lovely point.
Charlie Mcguckian is not a forward. I don't get why they play him there. Our half forward line was not competitive against Clare. I think they were hoping he'd win ball in the air. The reality is we aren't at the same standard as Clare. That Clare team is solid throughout, We have a number of areas where we struggle and we need every player available to us yet every year we seem to lose players or have injuries or get a player sent off."
Yeah, a lot of what you say is very true but we have raised those points many times before.
As a team we can not afford to have guys sent off.against better teams, we just can't cope.
We managed against Galway with 14 because they were a slow ageing side and we seen how their season ended.
We struggled against the Dubs and the safrons .
Was it lapses in concentration or complacency or just our inability to push on when the winning post is in sight.
In our game v Carlow we faced a now Joe Mac team that had given their all to get a credible draw with the cats and fair dues to them.
Would it have been a different result had we played them before they went toe to toe with Kilkenny. They put in a huge performances that day and emptied the tank dry. They really were a spent force when they played us 7 days later. They must have been wrecked after that mammoth draw. It made it easy for us to have an easy day out.
The same could be said for the Laois game.
They really had their all ireland one week earlier and had nothing left to offer when they played us.
The Kilkenny match was good for around 30 minutes. We looked good but then the wheels came off the wagon and the cats rolled us over.
However we did manage to get back on track and gave it everything in the last 10 minutes but we couldn't get over the line. That bit of cuteness and hurling ability gave them victory.
The Clare game has been spoken about to exhaustion so no need to go there.
Next year with hopefully some players returning from injury or holidays abroad we should become a better team. More options and a better blend of youth and experience. If we can get our half backs and half forwards sorted we can then perhaps compete with the big boys.

Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 371 - 25/06/2024 14:39:22    2554774

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Think the best example of this in wexford is Chin who was nt the best hurler when younger but had all the other attributes that made him competive . Speed size ball winning etc . Bur he worker harder on his gsme to be the hurler he is now . Tried football with wexford and loi soccer as they need same attributes and being natural athlete was on the radar fir them and came back to hurling raw but made up ground . Question is would he be the player he is if he never tried the others and returned knowing how he needed to improve . Or if he'd stuck to hurling only from the start would he have realised he needed to improve .
Point is we need to recognise the physical attributes needed and see if they can be measured and coached to next level of hurling . Think wexford coaching have come to the conclusion and measure all things needed to get the percentage up on the whole package in players . Its just deciding which attributes are most important and needed to get to next level . No point in picking big athlete if no coordination or likely to improve on it . Gone scientific but there will always be a place or 2 for the smaller gifted hurler who can compete in all areas too in the percentage table too just can't carry too many of them on one team. ."
Hurling is a physical game at the end of the day, look look at the winning Kilkenny 06-15 teams and Limerick current team.

The bigger lads can all win their own ball (Hayes, Hannon, Byrnes) and the smaller lads are built like tanks (Finn, Lynch) to break through any tackle.

You can't have players who need the ball passed out to them.

Winning your own ball is still one of the most important skills in hurling.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 775 - 25/06/2024 14:45:14    2554778

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Replying To Afinestick96:  "I think Oisin Foley is a certain starter for us if fit . Always seemed to pop up with 2 or 3 points a game."
He made very little impression the previous year though in game that mattered. Don't get me wrong he's a tidy hurler for sure and can take a score, like that goal in KK. But winning primary possession I'm not so sure about.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 252 - 25/06/2024 18:30:39    2554835

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Hurling is a physical game at the end of the day, look look at the winning Kilkenny 06-15 teams and Limerick current team.

The bigger lads can all win their own ball (Hayes, Hannon, Byrnes) and the smaller lads are built like tanks (Finn, Lynch) to break through any tackle.

You can't have players who need the ball passed out to them.

Winning your own ball is still one of the most important skills in hurling."
Thats the first attribute thats needed be u big medium or small . But you need so much more too . When I said carry smaller lads I meant lads that are physical enough and can win their own ball but not rely on totally for ball winning you need play makers scorers, markers runners etc . When u win it what do u do with it . Be able to strike well ,get your head up ,pass ,run, score have the brain and instinct to know which one is required at each particular time . Be unselfish play for your team, be brave , have good timing , be humble, have instinct , u still need an edge regardless no nice team wins all irelands . Its the sum of all parts. Screeny is the most exciting player I ve seen in while . But I hope lack of physical presence does nt stiffle his progress . If he does nt fit the mould of modern day hurler . . If he bulks up will he lose some of his touch pace and brain I'd he doesn't will he compete and be able win his own ball . If I were manager I'd be making sure I d accommodate him . He's the reason people love hurling

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 216 - 25/06/2024 20:50:34    2554849

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Thats the first attribute thats needed be u big medium or small . But you need so much more too . When I said carry smaller lads I meant lads that are physical enough and can win their own ball but not rely on totally for ball winning you need play makers scorers, markers runners etc . When u win it what do u do with it . Be able to strike well ,get your head up ,pass ,run, score have the brain and instinct to know which one is required at each particular time . Be unselfish play for your team, be brave , have good timing , be humble, have instinct , u still need an edge regardless no nice team wins all irelands . Its the sum of all parts. Screeny is the most exciting player I ve seen in while . But I hope lack of physical presence does nt stiffle his progress . If he does nt fit the mould of modern day hurler . . If he bulks up will he lose some of his touch pace and brain I'd he doesn't will he compete and be able win his own ball . If I were manager I'd be making sure I d accommodate him . He's the reason people love hurling"
But don't forget when Screeney moves out of under 20 he is going to meet grown men playing corner back just as fast as him and twice as strong as him.m

He has unbelievable stick-work and plays hurling like from a time when gym monsters were not the be all
And end all, he is a joy to watch we all know that.

The physicality of senior inter-county will be the acid test for Screeney.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 775 - 25/06/2024 21:48:43    2554856

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Thats the first attribute thats needed be u big medium or small . But you need so much more too . When I said carry smaller lads I meant lads that are physical enough and can win their own ball but not rely on totally for ball winning you need play makers scorers, markers runners etc . When u win it what do u do with it . Be able to strike well ,get your head up ,pass ,run, score have the brain and instinct to know which one is required at each particular time . Be unselfish play for your team, be brave , have good timing , be humble, have instinct , u still need an edge regardless no nice team wins all irelands . Its the sum of all parts. Screeny is the most exciting player I ve seen in while . But I hope lack of physical presence does nt stiffle his progress . If he does nt fit the mould of modern day hurler . . If he bulks up will he lose some of his touch pace and brain I'd he doesn't will he compete and be able win his own ball . If I were manager I'd be making sure I d accommodate him . He's the reason people love hurling"
Winning your own ball doesn't just mean winning high dropping ball. Mac and Chin would be 2 of the better lads around to win this type of ball but these days backs generally don't try to win it. They bat it down. Chin and Mac won little or no ball against Kilkenny and Clare. High balls are generally backs balls, and neither made enough runs to win low ball inside, although we didn't really have the halfbacks willing or capable of playing that sort of ball well enough.
Lads go on about Limericks size but if you watch them play they play very few aimless slow high balls inside. None in some games.
2 of our best forwards for winning their own ball in the current panel are Cian Byrne and Cathal Doyle. But both are small. Speed and cuteness will win you more ball once the ball played inside is right.
You need big men in certain positions for sure. Halfbacks, and some half forwards, fullback.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 25/06/2024 22:12:48    2554859

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Replying To Viking66:  "Winning your own ball doesn't just mean winning high dropping ball. Mac and Chin would be 2 of the better lads around to win this type of ball but these days backs generally don't try to win it. They bat it down. Chin and Mac won little or no ball against Kilkenny and Clare. High balls are generally backs balls, and neither made enough runs to win low ball inside, although we didn't really have the halfbacks willing or capable of playing that sort of ball well enough.
Lads go on about Limericks size but if you watch them play they play very few aimless slow high balls inside. None in some games.
2 of our best forwards for winning their own ball in the current panel are Cian Byrne and Cathal Doyle. But both are small. Speed and cuteness will win you more ball once the ball played inside is right.
You need big men in certain positions for sure. Halfbacks, and some half forwards, fullback."
Ur right not just about high ball its every ball u should be able to win high ,low 50 /50 60/40 , ruck, turnovers,etc ,
Some big men can win ball but can't hurl some little men who can hurl well but not win ball. . Very few have everything that's needed thats for sure .
Limerick have the highest percentage of players that do have the highest individual percentage of what makes a hurler and highest percentage of hurlers with said attributes for all the main positions for their team and panel at present if that makes sense and fir their style of play add in the cohesive attitude teamwork selflessness and edge with commitment . They have if right at present and have done for 6 7 years now. Up to everyone else to find a way to better it .including ourselves . That won't happen overnight. Thats why In my opinion kilkenny are best placed to be main rivals this year to Limerick.
They can match them in more areas than any other team .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 216 - 25/06/2024 23:23:24    2554873

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Ur right not just about high ball its every ball u should be able to win high ,low 50 /50 60/40 , ruck, turnovers,etc ,
Some big men can win ball but can't hurl some little men who can hurl well but not win ball. . Very few have everything that's needed thats for sure .
Limerick have the highest percentage of players that do have the highest individual percentage of what makes a hurler and highest percentage of hurlers with said attributes for all the main positions for their team and panel at present if that makes sense and fir their style of play add in the cohesive attitude teamwork selflessness and edge with commitment . They have if right at present and have done for 6 7 years now. Up to everyone else to find a way to better it .including ourselves . That won't happen overnight. Thats why In my opinion kilkenny are best placed to be main rivals this year to Limerick.
They can match them in more areas than any other team ."
Think you are right there. Kilkenny have more lads over 6 foot who can hurl than Limerick do. Think Limerick have 5 or 6 lads who aren't 6 foot. It's the teamwork that sets Limerick apart though. And their speed, of thought and pace. And the ability to make in game tactical changes on the line quickly.
The late 90s/early 00s Cork style might be a better one for us to model our gameplan on though for the near future, as looking forwards as to who is likely to come through in the next few years we are going to have a pretty small but fast and skilful set of forwards, especially inside. Something like the set up we had in the League this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 26/06/2024 07:31:54    2554888

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think you are right there. Kilkenny have more lads over 6 foot who can hurl than Limerick do. Think Limerick have 5 or 6 lads who aren't 6 foot. It's the teamwork that sets Limerick apart though. And their speed, of thought and pace. And the ability to make in game tactical changes on the line quickly.
The late 90s/early 00s Cork style might be a better one for us to model our gameplan on though for the near future, as looking forwards as to who is likely to come through in the next few years we are going to have a pretty small but fast and skilful set of forwards, especially inside. Something like the set up we had in the League this year."
2 semi finals are intriging really . Ref being crucial in Cork Limerick game especially and hiw fussy he will be . Limerick always on the edge Cork pace will cause problems but like a seasoned classic boxer l d expect Limerick to pound them on points over the contest give d give Cork a punchers chance can deliver few knockout goals they wil need to . Of course Limerick have knock out punchers too .
Kilkenny to beat Clare on the day not by much but think aftrr watching them v us thay are certainly vulnerable down the centre back channels. Abd once will catch them . Walter could be the go to man if Reid Cody mullen don't open them up first . Clare gave forward lobe to trouble any county but need to shie up the backs .
Yes we will be smaller in forwards thats why we need to come up with plan to accommodate this we will still need few big men to bulk up our squad . Answers I m not sure who let's hope few players stand out in championship.

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 216 - 26/06/2024 09:12:37    2554897

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Replying To Formertownie:  "2 semi finals are intriging really . Ref being crucial in Cork Limerick game especially and hiw fussy he will be . Limerick always on the edge Cork pace will cause problems but like a seasoned classic boxer l d expect Limerick to pound them on points over the contest give d give Cork a punchers chance can deliver few knockout goals they wil need to . Of course Limerick have knock out punchers too .
Kilkenny to beat Clare on the day not by much but think aftrr watching them v us thay are certainly vulnerable down the centre back channels. Abd once will catch them . Walter could be the go to man if Reid Cody mullen don't open them up first . Clare gave forward lobe to trouble any county but need to shie up the backs .
Yes we will be smaller in forwards thats why we need to come up with plan to accommodate this we will still need few big men to bulk up our squad . Answers I m not sure who let's hope few players stand out in championship."
Really hope so too!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12880 - 26/06/2024 09:26:26    2554900

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Watched the game again last night. Think we must play Rory at 11 next year he is at his best there running at defences and has space there to score from long range. Think we are still 3 or 4 players off being genuine contenders . Hopefully we get the likes of Oisin and Paudie Foley and Ian Carty back and we need the likes of Darragh Carley, Tucker Kinsella, Corey Byrne Dunbar, Cian Molloy and Eoin Whelan to really push on next year for starting positions. We also need Cian Byrne, Conor Foley and Eoin Ryan to really push their game onto another level. Id be more positive than negative after this season. We are very competitive in Leinster and with a bit of luck should have made a Leinster final but are still a bit off when it comes to the All Ireland Series . A lot done in Keiths first year but a lot more to do.

Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 328 - 26/06/2024 10:19:44    2554906

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