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New Allianz Hurling League Structure For 2025 Ratified

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Replying To Whammo86: "I don't think it'd be change for change sake. The Joe McDonagh was a funky set up that was put in place because the Provincial groups didn't work with the 14 teams that were playing in the All Ireland before they were put in place and having 10 teams was too elitist. Having a 2nd tier gain entry to the knockout rounds is such a stupid GAA type solution to things. The top tier needs to be 12 teams at least. The second tier needs to be its own second tier. 5 tiers for Championship is too much for 35 teams. It's not a bad thing for teams to play a wider range of opponents and give an opportunity to develop to weaker teams. You get the argument about there being non dud fixtures and everyone being close to one another but that sort of dynamic only last for a short period of time as relegation and promotion and other mini gaps between teams start to emerge and you'd need to constantly realign divisions to keep those dynamics. That's been an historical issue for hurling that they do too much realigning and it's been at the expense of openness. Legend's idea is in the spirit of openness of competition which would be important for the game." Legendzxix plan didn't involve any change to the top tier Whammo86. Only an expansion of the Joe Mac with 8 teams and semifinals. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/12/2023 11:48:13 2516330 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Legendzxix plan didn't involve any change to the top tier Whammo86. Only an expansion of the Joe Mac with 8 teams and semifinals." That's my plan. Expand the McDonagh to 8 and bring in semi-finals for the top 4 after 7 rounds. The Carlow chairman spoke well on the crowd they had for the Dublin game in the preliminary quarter-final. That's all well and good but for the McDonagh Cup to stand on it's own two feet and get bigger crowds, Carlow selling out for a visit of Laois or Kerry in a McDonagh Cup semi-final is where the growth should be. 2023 example: 1. Carlow 2. Offaly 3. Laois 4. Kerry 5. Down 6. Kildare 7. Meath 8. Derry - relegated. Semi-finals: Carlow v Kerry Offaly v Laois Final: Carlow v Offaly, curtain raiser to Limerick v Galway All-Ireland semi-final. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8284 - 11/12/2023 13:29:27 2516351 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "That's my plan. Expand the McDonagh to 8 and bring in semi-finals for the top 4 after 7 rounds. The Carlow chairman spoke well on the crowd they had for the Dublin game in the preliminary quarter-final. That's all well and good but for the McDonagh Cup to stand on it's own two feet and get bigger crowds, Carlow selling out for a visit of Laois or Kerry in a McDonagh Cup semi-final is where the growth should be. 2023 example: 1. Carlow 2. Offaly 3. Laois 4. Kerry 5. Down 6. Kildare 7. Meath 8. Derry - relegated. Semi-finals: Carlow v Kerry Offaly v Laois Final: Carlow v Offaly, curtain raiser to Limerick v Galway All-Ireland semi-final." Would expanding to 8 teams increase attendances or profile though? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/12/2023 15:05:12 2516368 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Would expanding to 8 teams increase attendances or profile though?" There are a few things to this. I don't see how Meath and Kildare switching between McDonagh and Ring is good for hurling. Both counties have reasonable hurling populations from the RTÉ hurling census. McDonagh hurling probably is a step up for Derry or London. Leinster hurling is a step up for some counties also. There is a point where some counties have to be tested against higher opponents. The restructuring of the league means 3 McDonagh counties will come up against 4 McCarthy counties in 1B. The preliminary quarter-final should be less important in that environment. McDonagh counties selling out for home McDonagh semi-finals should be more important than selling out for home preliminary quarter-finals. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8284 - 11/12/2023 16:56:53 2516383 Link
Interesting proposal by Antrim [url=]https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/12/05/news/antrim_pass_motion_for_leinster_shc_and_joe_mcdonagh_cups_to_be_combined-3826802/ CollineDiFerro (Cavan) - Posts: 6 - 11/12/2023 17:00:33 2516384 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "There are a few things to this. I don't see how Meath and Kildare switching between McDonagh and Ring is good for hurling. Both counties have reasonable hurling populations from the RTÉ hurling census. McDonagh hurling probably is a step up for Derry or London. Leinster hurling is a step up for some counties also. There is a point where some counties have to be tested against higher opponents. The restructuring of the league means 3 McDonagh counties will come up against 4 McCarthy counties in 1B. The preliminary quarter-final should be less important in that environment. McDonagh counties selling out for home McDonagh semi-finals should be more important than selling out for home preliminary quarter-finals." The problem I'd have is that the ladder might be pulled up. The Ring would be a long way behind the Joe Mac then. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/12/2023 22:45:21 2516410 Link
Replying To CollineDiFerro: "Interesting proposal by Antrim I can see where they are coming from but it is stretching the credibility of it being a Leinster championship even further. It would really be an All Ireland ex Munster 5 championship. Seriously just think it should be a 12 or 14 team All Ireland split into groups of 6 or 7. Run off the Provincials as knockout to be used to seed the groups. Each gets a Provincial champion, the runner up from the other Province plus 1 semi-finalist from each Province with repeat pairings avoided. You'd still get practically all the current provincial match ups played (although some of them would be lesser impact) but you would have more games like Cork v Galway, Kilkenny v Tipp, Waterford v Wexford and you'd get rid of 90% of the ridiculous dynamics that emerge from try to shoe horn in a Provincial group element. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 12/12/2023 13:59:19 2516499 Link
Replying To Viking66: "The problem I'd have is that the ladder might be pulled up. The Ring would be a long way behind the Joe Mac then." This is why it'd be interesting to have the league contribute to the All Ireland qualifiers for the lower divisions. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 12/12/2023 14:01:34 2516500 Link
Replying To Viking66: "The problem I'd have is that the ladder might be pulled up. The Ring would be a long way behind the Joe Mac then." Can't see this getting the support of most existing Leinster SHC counties. The current system works well enough and has been exciting since its introduction.. The only thing this would do is lead to half the games ending in lop sided hidings. Would effectively turn Munster into a higher tier. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 12/12/2023 14:37:37 2516509 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "This is why it'd be interesting to have the league contribute to the All Ireland qualifiers for the lower divisions." But there aren't any AI Qualifiers? I'm not sure what you mean? Some of the Joe Mac teams will be in div2, well 1b, and some in div2. They won't be playing the same standard of opposition. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 12/12/2023 15:22:04 2516513 Link
The top 5 in Munster and Leinster retain their provincial status. The McDonagh Cup winner determines the province with a 6th team. This is fair. The McDonagh Cup isn't generating big crowds. It is a competitive group with 6 teams but the crowds aren't getting behind their counties in big numbers. Meath and Kildare need to establish themselves at McDonagh level. Expanding to 8 is the best way. The top 2 then can have home semi-finals. The GAA need to get behind marketing the McDonagh Cup semi-finals then, culminating in the final in Croke Park on All-Ireland semi-final day. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8284 - 12/12/2023 17:55:13 2516533 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The top 5 in Munster and Leinster retain their provincial status. The McDonagh Cup winner determines the province with a 6th team. This is fair. The McDonagh Cup isn't generating big crowds. It is a competitive group with 6 teams but the crowds aren't getting behind their counties in big numbers. Meath and Kildare need to establish themselves at McDonagh level. Expanding to 8 is the best way. The top 2 then can have home semi-finals. The GAA need to get behind marketing the McDonagh Cup semi-finals then, culminating in the final in Croke Park on All-Ireland semi-final day." You are putting the cart before the horse. You need to start at nursery then u6s and get parents and kids into the sport of hurling 1st before they will go to games. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 12/12/2023 19:47:29 2516540 Link
Replying To Viking66: "You are putting the cart before the horse. You need to start at nursery then u6s and get parents and kids into the sport of hurling 1st before they will go to games." You also need a proper pathway ahead. Kildare were a puck of the ball away last year from Division 1 hurling this coming spring. . . .and subsequently got relegated from McDonagh hurling. Thats how tight it is just below the top tier. I like the overlapping structure that is now setup in the league. Fluid promotion and relegation between the league tiers with 2 up and 2 down (until a Munster county is in line for relegation from 1B :-) ) is a big step forward for the 2nd tier counties. Below the top tier the championship has very tight boundaries at present. Having just 6 McDonagh cup teams does a disservice to what are becoming Ring / McDonagh yoyo counties. Most of the Ring cup teams would be competitive enough at McDonagh cup level. The McDonagh cup came about i the first place because we kept promoting teams from the Ring cup without relegating anyone. I think we should disband the McDonagh cup and go back to the Ring structure where 10 teams play in 2 groups of 5 and this time lock in the promotion / relegation aspect of it as one up / one down through the tiers. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 352 - 13/12/2023 16:56:15 2516641 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The top 5 in Munster and Leinster retain their provincial status. The McDonagh Cup winner determines the province with a 6th team. This is fair. The McDonagh Cup isn't generating big crowds. It is a competitive group with 6 teams but the crowds aren't getting behind their counties in big numbers. Meath and Kildare need to establish themselves at McDonagh level. Expanding to 8 is the best way. The top 2 then can have home semi-finals. The GAA need to get behind marketing the McDonagh Cup semi-finals then, culminating in the final in Croke Park on All-Ireland semi-final day." It isn't actually fair though. If Kerry got promoted and played in Munster there'd be no jeopardy in Leinster. They just need to make the groups mixed. It'd sort out funky relegation stuff and also sort out the differences in strength between the 2 sides of the competition. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 13/12/2023 17:41:23 2516645 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "It isn't actually fair though. If Kerry got promoted and played in Munster there'd be no jeopardy in Leinster. They just need to make the groups mixed. It'd sort out funky relegation stuff and also sort out the differences in strength between the 2 sides of the competition." Yes but Munster and Leinster Championship wind are still valued by Munster and Leinster counties. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/12/2023 22:45:22 2516677 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Yes but Munster and Leinster Championship wind are still valued by Munster and Leinster counties." Wins Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/12/2023 09:28:04 2516701 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Yes but Munster and Leinster Championship wind are still valued by Munster and Leinster counties." Yeah continue to play them. They'd still be meaningful to get seeded for the All Ireland. If you win Munster you'd have Leinster runner up in your group and 1 semifinalist from each. Lose in a Munster semifinal and you're playing against a Provincial champion and a Provincial runner up and then another semifinalist. That's a pretty hard draw. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 14/12/2023 09:33:44 2516703 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Yes but Munster and Leinster Championship wind are still valued by Munster and Leinster counties." Holy grail for both our counties let's face it! BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 14/12/2023 13:34:02 2516755 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The top 5 in Munster and Leinster retain their provincial status. The McDonagh Cup winner determines the province with a 6th team. This is fair. The McDonagh Cup isn't generating big crowds. It is a competitive group with 6 teams but the crowds aren't getting behind their counties in big numbers. Meath and Kildare need to establish themselves at McDonagh level. Expanding to 8 is the best way. The top 2 then can have home semi-finals. The GAA need to get behind marketing the McDonagh Cup semi-finals then, culminating in the final in Croke Park on All-Ireland semi-final day." The GAA or anybody else could market the McDonagh Cup semi-finals all they want, but realistically, chances are slim of getting the sort of sell-out crowds that you mention in your earlier post. Much the same as if Wexford reached the semi-final of the Tailteann Cup in football, and had a home draw - it could be marketed to the high heavens, but we still probably wouldn't even half fill Wexford Park, never mind all of it. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2621 - 14/12/2023 15:03:41 2516780 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Holy grail for both our counties let's face it!" Yes I was very drunk for a good few nights after Wexford winning it in 2019 and 2004 Barney! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/12/2023 15:10:46 2516785 Link