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Dropping Counties Out Of The NHL With Less Than 5 Hurling Clubs

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Just n my thinking this seems to b very harsh ,why not give them gpo to these countys for e.g and give them 5 years ,rather than just saying good luck ,because i feel that will be the end of them

Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 304 - 08/11/2023 13:03:35    2512081

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I read that story here with interest. What's missing from it is any detail on what exactly an expanded Lory Meagher Cup would look like, or how it would operate. Also on how money saved from not participating in the League would be used to develop hurling in those counties. Without those details, hard to make a call on the merits of the proposal.

Interesting too that while the story here (on Hogan Stand) is of the Leitrim manager saying the idea is "mental", this report from Irish Indpendent shows that the Leitrim Secretary agrees "in principle" with it:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/plan-to-reform-hurling-league-could-see-five-counties-drop-out-in-2025/a423790344.html
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Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 08/11/2023 14:19:51    2512107

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Carlow has only 10 clubs 9 of those field adult teams, only 5 of those are competitive as it stands, we wouldn't be far off meeting those requirements and we are headed for the leinster hurling championship, I suppose the difference is there is a tradition of hurling here and our top clubs are very competitive.

You can see some merit in what they are going to do if that's what they actually do, there are plenty of counties not really viable as it stands, how do you grow hurling in a tiny county like Leitrim with no tradition in the game though. The coaching resources aren't there as it stands so you have to start a fresh

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1662 - 08/11/2023 14:52:43    2512117

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Absolutely crazy tbh seems to be a group who want to kill hurling rather than promote it.

Most Gaels in these counties fight tooth and nail to keep things going major kick in the teeth to them.

Also this 5 teams number is crazy how can Leitrim expect to get to 5 teams at its peak was probably never anymore than 4 teams.

I know my own county upto a few years ago only had 7 teams. Our senior championship only had 4 teams upto maybe 3 4 years ago now at 6 reckon we have a total of 9 clubs in the county but are playing in the all Ireland next year.

I know none of the teams mentioned in the report will play there anytime soon but maybe they could look at the Carlow model for how to get the best out of everyone involved as opposed to closing off hurling for these teams.

Just a thought all these counties are similar size to us.

ITSCHOLAR (Carlow) - Posts: 302 - 08/11/2023 15:06:02    2512120

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I know a huge problem is sligo were a whisker away from christy ring final this year and could have it ,we have 5 senior clubs and 2 full junior

+2 second teams ,
Problem is we have ONLY 1 GPO !!!SHARDED WITH LEITRIM,now wat support are we getting to catch up to the like of carlow ,absolulty none and it wasnt long ago we had 6 adult clubs and playing lory meagher and we cud go back if cant get at lesst our own gpo

Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 304 - 08/11/2023 17:02:31    2512150

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My own county is impacted by this, and I simply can't see the benefits.

There are 40 clubs in Cavan with adult male teams - a huge number for the population here.
So that rules out setting up new clubs for hurling.

If money is allocated to hurling in Cavan amd goes to the clubs, I don't see how it won't be filtered into the running of the football side of things. There's no way it can really be controlled on a micro level to prevent this happening.

Clubs may field hurling teams, most likely as part of multi-club amalgamations but with little thought or time given to training, preparation, organisation, etc.

So the only impact I see from this ruling is a negative one. The incentive for those committed enough to hurling and currently on the county panel (or fringes) has been greatly reduced.

This will only drive lads away from hurling in Cavan.

I can't speak for other counties, but would imagine Fermanagh and Leitrim , to name 2, are in a similar boat.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5195 - 08/11/2023 21:51:55    2512175

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Replying To cavanman47:  "My own county is impacted by this, and I simply can't see the benefits.

There are 40 clubs in Cavan with adult male teams - a huge number for the population here.
So that rules out setting up new clubs for hurling.

If money is allocated to hurling in Cavan amd goes to the clubs, I don't see how it won't be filtered into the running of the football side of things. There's no way it can really be controlled on a micro level to prevent this happening.

Clubs may field hurling teams, most likely as part of multi-club amalgamations but with little thought or time given to training, preparation, organisation, etc.

So the only impact I see from this ruling is a negative one. The incentive for those committed enough to hurling and currently on the county panel (or fringes) has been greatly reduced.

This will only drive lads away from hurling in Cavan.

I can't speak for other counties, but would imagine Fermanagh and Leitrim , to name 2, are in a similar boat."
I think your line, "I don't see how it won't be filtered into the running of the football side of things. There's no way it can really be controlled on a micro level to prevent this happening." Sums up the haphazard attitude of some in the GAA towards the developing of hurling in the weaker counties. I fully accept that there are several bean counters in lots of counties who would love to get their sticky little fingers on the funds 'diverted from participating in the NHL'. Club numbers in a county don't always indicate the standard attained by that county in the NHL, for example Carlow posters on here state that their county have a low number of Senior clubs, 6 in fact and this year they will play in the McCarthy Cup. Is there a danger that their inter county participation could come 'under examination' if in future the powers that be decided that say 10 clubs would become the acceptable figure? For years now Down have competed in mainly Division 2 of the NHL with some years in Division 1 largely from a base of the 3 clubs in the Ards, I fully accept they avail of several excellent players from "across the water" as the Ards men call the clubs that are not from the Ards peninsula. Mayo hurlers also have a low number of clubs and have until recently been a solid Division 2 outfit and part of the problem recently I think is the fact that Tooreen have been involved in the latter stages of the Club Intermediate Championship and were literally only seconds away from outright success this year, is it fair to deny the better players from Mayo's three or four clubs an opportunity to play in the NHL? Simple answer, NO.

Regarding Tooreen's participation in the All Ireland Intermediate Hurling Championship, which i previously alluded to, should Tooreen have actually won that Championship then by current regulations the 2023 Mayo Senior Champions would compete in the Connacht Senior Club Hurling Championship. Now even before the All Ireland Final was played proposals were suggested that the Galway Hurling Champions should compete in the Leinster Club Championship. This showed NO REGARDS whatsoever to Tooreen's ambitions, disgraceful really and did not allow any scope for self improvement.

If MONEY is to be the answer then why not be positive and reward clubs/counties (Tooreen and Naas are just two example of several clubs) outside the top tier who grow the game. But as cavanman47 said this money could 'be filtered' in the wrong direction so other forms of positive discrimination may be required. This could take the form of increased grants or increased representations at county conventions or indeed congress for counties that increase participation in hurling in a sustainable manner.

Maybe I am wasting my time in posting this but I feel that hurling will only be maintained in several areas by people on the ground with a genuine interest AND certainly not by officialdom with money and negativity as the sole drivers.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 09/11/2023 12:17:50    2512237

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Disgraceful decision. This is a great way to kill off the few clubs that counties such as my own have. Totally agree with the OP why not give us GPOs to grow the game in other clubs. Money far better spent on that than on junkets for the boys

liosbreac6265 (Longford) - Posts: 254 - 09/11/2023 12:42:36    2512244

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Replying To MillerX:  "I think your line, "I don't see how it won't be filtered into the running of the football side of things. There's no way it can really be controlled on a micro level to prevent this happening." Sums up the haphazard attitude of some in the GAA towards the developing of hurling in the weaker counties. I fully accept that there are several bean counters in lots of counties who would love to get their sticky little fingers on the funds 'diverted from participating in the NHL'. Club numbers in a county don't always indicate the standard attained by that county in the NHL, for example Carlow posters on here state that their county have a low number of Senior clubs, 6 in fact and this year they will play in the McCarthy Cup. Is there a danger that their inter county participation could come 'under examination' if in future the powers that be decided that say 10 clubs would become the acceptable figure? For years now Down have competed in mainly Division 2 of the NHL with some years in Division 1 largely from a base of the 3 clubs in the Ards, I fully accept they avail of several excellent players from "across the water" as the Ards men call the clubs that are not from the Ards peninsula. Mayo hurlers also have a low number of clubs and have until recently been a solid Division 2 outfit and part of the problem recently I think is the fact that Tooreen have been involved in the latter stages of the Club Intermediate Championship and were literally only seconds away from outright success this year, is it fair to deny the better players from Mayo's three or four clubs an opportunity to play in the NHL? Simple answer, NO.

Regarding Tooreen's participation in the All Ireland Intermediate Hurling Championship, which i previously alluded to, should Tooreen have actually won that Championship then by current regulations the 2023 Mayo Senior Champions would compete in the Connacht Senior Club Hurling Championship. Now even before the All Ireland Final was played proposals were suggested that the Galway Hurling Champions should compete in the Leinster Club Championship. This showed NO REGARDS whatsoever to Tooreen's ambitions, disgraceful really and did not allow any scope for self improvement.

If MONEY is to be the answer then why not be positive and reward clubs/counties (Tooreen and Naas are just two example of several clubs) outside the top tier who grow the game. But as cavanman47 said this money could 'be filtered' in the wrong direction so other forms of positive discrimination may be required. This could take the form of increased grants or increased representations at county conventions or indeed congress for counties that increase participation in hurling in a sustainable manner.

Maybe I am wasting my time in posting this but I feel that hurling will only be maintained in several areas by people on the ground with a genuine interest AND certainly not by officialdom with money and negativity as the sole drivers."
Yeah, I could see Tooreen giving St Thomas' a real run for their money alright.....

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 503 - 09/11/2023 13:05:21    2512250

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Replying To liosbreac6265:  "Disgraceful decision. This is a great way to kill off the few clubs that counties such as my own have. Totally agree with the OP why not give us GPOs to grow the game in other clubs. Money far better spent on that than on junkets for the boys"
Just to point out that as things stand, it's a proposal rather than a decision. It may very well be shot down when the time comes to actually decide.

And again, until we see more details on how exactly an expanded Lory Meagher Cup would work, and how funding would be used to develop hurling in the affected counties, I for one will be holding off on forming an opinion on the whole thing.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 09/11/2023 14:25:10    2512261

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penny pinching by county boards who only want to throw money at football.

Blitzkrig (Fermanagh) - Posts: 40 - 09/11/2023 14:33:51    2512262

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A disgrace that this was even put forward as a proposal…. Yet another nonsensical idea dreamt up by pen pushers within the GAA…. They are great at that sort of thing….

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 09/11/2023 22:14:10    2512302

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Replying To streaker:  "Yeah, I could see Tooreen giving St Thomas' a real run for their money alright....."
.I think you should live around tooreen or clubs like them ,to see the battles they go threw to get to there standard ,or il put it like this ,let's see how long St Thomas would last down n mayo for a few years competing against ONE club !!!

Timmy86 (Sligo) - Posts: 304 - 10/11/2023 06:42:04    2512307

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I read that story here with interest. What's missing from it is any detail on what exactly an expanded Lory Meagher Cup would look like, or how it would operate. Also on how money saved from not participating in the League would be used to develop hurling in those counties. Without those details, hard to make a call on the merits of the proposal.

Interesting too that while the story here (on Hogan Stand) is of the Leitrim manager saying the idea is "mental", this report from Irish Indpendent shows that the Leitrim Secretary agrees "in principle" with it:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/plan-to-reform-hurling-league-could-see-five-counties-drop-out-in-2025/a423790344.html
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Of course the CB would agree with it. All they see is not having to spend as much money on it.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 10/11/2023 09:50:16    2512315

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Shame on whoever made that proposal.

I wish them the worst of luck.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2913 - 10/11/2023 11:58:00    2512338

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This is an attempt by football men within those counties to kill off hurling. They know lads will walk away if it happens. There are too many tiers in hurling anyway. There should be three tiers of 8 below the Liam McCarthy. I know people will moan about diluting the Joe McDonagh but I don't buy it. Kildare can be competitive and Derry would be too eventually. Sligo are improving and I think they have two more clubs in the north of the county competing at junior level (St. Molaise and Drumcliffe/Rosses Point).

What these counties need is a dedicated fund and a hurling director to oversee it. Donegal has 10 clubs competing but some cover the biggest towns in the county. Ballybofey, Letterkenny, Donegal Town, ect. A few GPOs and funding for junior level will bring these clubs on and improve the county team.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 745 - 10/11/2023 14:36:52    2512370

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "This is an attempt by football men within those counties to kill off hurling. They know lads will walk away if it happens. There are too many tiers in hurling anyway. There should be three tiers of 8 below the Liam McCarthy. I know people will moan about diluting the Joe McDonagh but I don't buy it. Kildare can be competitive and Derry would be too eventually. Sligo are improving and I think they have two more clubs in the north of the county competing at junior level (St. Molaise and Drumcliffe/Rosses Point).

What these counties need is a dedicated fund and a hurling director to oversee it. Donegal has 10 clubs competing but some cover the biggest towns in the county. Ballybofey, Letterkenny, Donegal Town, ect. A few GPOs and funding for junior level will bring these clubs on and improve the county team."
Spot on and its not just in Lory Meagher that boreball people want to kill off hurling.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1603 - 10/11/2023 15:00:41    2512377

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Replying To Barrowsider:  "Carlow has only 10 clubs 9 of those field adult teams, only 5 of those are competitive as it stands, we wouldn't be far off meeting those requirements and we are headed for the leinster hurling championship, I suppose the difference is there is a tradition of hurling here and our top clubs are very competitive.

You can see some merit in what they are going to do if that's what they actually do, there are plenty of counties not really viable as it stands, how do you grow hurling in a tiny county like Leitrim with no tradition in the game though. The coaching resources aren't there as it stands so you have to start a fresh"
TBF the 5 Carlow clubs are strong and the top 2/3 compete with most of Leinster.

Some of the 5 counties mentioned have county teams made up of players from two clubs.. That is a bit ridiculous. There are players I know from wexford who would be at junior club level that have represented some of those counties and are delighted with their GPA entitlements.

wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 187 - 10/11/2023 15:15:39    2512381

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Replying To wexfordwin:  "TBF the 5 Carlow clubs are strong and the top 2/3 compete with most of Leinster.

Some of the 5 counties mentioned have county teams made up of players from two clubs.. That is a bit ridiculous. There are players I know from wexford who would be at junior club level that have represented some of those counties and are delighted with their GPA entitlements."
Bit of an aside, and I might have told the story before, but there's a friend of mine from here in Wexford who was no more than a middle-of-the-road Junior hurler, who got a job in one such county after finishing college back in the late 1990s, and who transferred to play with one of the clubs there for a few years. He ended up getting a few runs out with the county team in what was probably Division 3 or 4 of the League at the time.

He then met and married an Australian woman, and has been living close to Sydney for the last 20 years or so. And whenever it comes up in conversation out there, he tells people (quite truthfully) that "yeah, I'm from Wexford, and I played county hurling......" :)

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2622 - 10/11/2023 15:54:30    2512387

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Replying To jobber:  "Spot on and its not just in Lory Meagher that boreball people want to kill off hurling."
They know deep down football is a poor state and now the GAA are tinkering with the rules again rather than dealing with the real problem which is coaches not letting kids just play the sport. Even McGuinness said hurling doesn't suffer from the same problem because someone can just strike the ball up the other end of the field.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 745 - 10/11/2023 15:56:31    2512388

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