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Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To veterngaa:  "What happens if the player gets stuck in the corner? Just a big lump kick pass into the square.. really skillfull …

Good coaches will force more players back so opposition can't score.

Forget about the 80s it ain't coming back.

Enjoy the tactical battle"
I quite enjoy watching a team try to break down a stubborn defensive unit so I agree with you more than most here but to be honest I'm not sure if the tactical battles you refer to are as sophisticated as you seem to think.
Most games, especially games involving two defensive teams seem to rely first and foremost on gambling that the opposition player will make a mistake or lose concentration as opposed to any real insight on the managers behalf.
Even Jim McGuinness, the modern games greatest strategist, was stumped in 2014 when kerry mimicked his game plan and simply made fewer basic mistakes.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 12/11/2023 11:31:12    2512510

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "After watching crossmaglen/trillick,the Gaa have huge problems.they have to do something and very fast..I'm a Gaa man but really can't see myself watching much more of this..they are talking of reducing the number of counties in hurling league,looking at the hand pass and puck outs,yet hurling has been great to watch in last few years..cross didn't score in 2nd half and last score was on 40 minutes,from a club who always played good football..I've mentioned before,I'd do away with back pass to goalkeeper and once a team is inside opposition half,have to play forward only..it might be no harm to trial 13 aside,create more room and it just might stop all the defensive s..te we are seeing.."
Like you I love Gaelic games. I have enjoyed both hurling and football all my life. I appreciate that games evolve and I have embraced the changes. Whilst hurling has changed hugely the essence of the game remains. There are still plenty of enjoyable, entertaining games of football being played. However the club football matches between Éire Óg and Kilmacud and Trillick and Cross both of which were broadcast on RTÉ were abominations. They were an affront to the sport that Gaelic football can still be. I'm not a great fan of the constant tinkering with the rules of football however the appalling spectacles I witnessed recently have to be confronted.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6196 - 12/11/2023 14:11:35    2512519

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Replying To supersub15:  "The most relevant post to date on this topic."
Maybe give 2 points to balls kicked over the bar from outside the 45 and only point for inside that
It would mean that instead of funnelling all their players back they would have to defend the long range kick and give space inside.Also the 13 aside would be a good idea.Its really hard to know what to do but football is becoming unwatchable.

Alwaysencourage (Galway) - Posts: 586 - 12/11/2023 15:14:18    2512537

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3 scores in 15 minutes between Kilcoo and Scotstown.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 12/11/2023 15:33:06    2512543

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Replying To Rolo2010:  "3 scores in 15 minutes between Kilcoo and Scotstown."
It was good game to watch in fairness. That is the best judge of any sport.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4111 - 12/11/2023 16:48:03    2512560

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It was good game to watch in fairness. That is the best judge of any sport."
Intriguing tactical battle. Both teams more or less played man to man with the plus 1 coming in when needed. The uneducated eye on here will say dirty defensive football but all they want is 6v6 inside each 45 and kick it in…

veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 999 - 12/11/2023 17:11:56    2512566

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It was good game to watch in fairness. That is the best judge of any sport."
Great second half with an unbelievable finish. There was no comparison between the match last night and the match today.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6196 - 12/11/2023 17:39:35    2512572

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Believe it or not club football in cavan is now enjoyable to watch as most clubs have moved away from the defensive crap they were playing for the past few years with only one or two club coaches who want to justify the ransom they are charging the clubs playing it. It is showing at provincial level too with our three clubs at junior intermediate and senior level putting up big scores and only gowna getting beaten in the last second of injury time.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 514 - 12/11/2023 18:04:14    2512577

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Intriguing tactical battle. Both teams more or less played man to man with the plus 1 coming in when needed. The uneducated eye on here will say dirty defensive football but all they want is 6v6 inside each 45 and kick it in…"
It was, Defensive but not negative. Both teams went for scores when in possession and got some nice ones, Scotstown were far better as said after the penalty as they had to throw the kitchen sink at it. 23 must be the best impact sub to come off the bench in a long time. Some balls to call the mark when hardly on, and then kick a brilliant point. And win possession for the winning kick.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4111 - 12/11/2023 20:39:45    2512596

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Replying To Alwaysencourage:  "Maybe give 2 points to balls kicked over the bar from outside the 45 and only point for inside that
It would mean that instead of funnelling all their players back they would have to defend the long range kick and give space inside.Also the 13 aside would be a good idea.Its really hard to know what to do but football is becoming unwatchable."
The thread title and question is, Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved? The way I see it is the game needs too many fixes to put it back on track and knowing how head office works it takes forever to make the simplest of changes, even one change can take an eternity, so to answer the question of the post creator, no it can't be saved that is in its current state unless the game is reinvented.



No matter how terrible the game looked as it was being played in the mid 1980's, in some people's view at the very least it had masses of excitement and a lot of passion both for the teams involved on the day, its supporters and neutral followers.

From the mid 1980's to 2000, not all games were pretty to watch but all games were watchable, fact, so if we look at Leinster a province that got the same respect and feared as much as Ulster, Munster and Connaught, single out Meath, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath and Louth with no disrespect to the remaining Leinster counties but those had no fear of Dublin, if the truth was known Dublin probably feared them more, the remaining counties of Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford and Longford were always confident that they could and would beat a fancied favourite on any given day if they caught them unawares.2001 / 2002 saw the introduction of the back door system and the good fortune of the surprise that the weaker counties had was about to come to an end.

Laois was charged up enough to win themselves a Leinster title in 2003, so too was Westmeath, they won theirs in 2004, although the fate of Leinster football was changing at speed, 2009 / '10 saw the last of greatness that any Meath team produced over the years, Louth who were always a serious threat to most teams in Leinster reached the 2010 Leinster senior football final but they lost out by the narrowest of margins.

Cork won the All-Ireland SF final in 2010 but haven't been heard of since, Meath who won the Leinster final the same year fell on hard time too, they had to contest the T.C. which they won this year. Louth fell down to div. 4 but appear to be on the way back. Kildare who lost out to Down in the 2010 semi final by their own standards fell on hard times as well. Laois who won their Leinster in 2003 see themselves now in div.4. where as Westmeath are hanging in there.

Leinster now belongs to the mighty Dub's and because they won this years All Ireland senior football out of Div.2 it appears as if the rest of the country belongs to them as well.

So perhaps, and maybe you might understand why I say Gaelic football cannot be saved unless it is reinvented.

A 13 man team is the first change that must be made.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3385 - 12/11/2023 23:09:58    2512621

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Replying To veterngaa:  "Intriguing tactical battle. Both teams more or less played man to man with the plus 1 coming in when needed. The uneducated eye on here will say dirty defensive football but all they want is 6v6 inside each 45 and kick it in…"
An intriguing tactical battle where both teams more or less played man on man?
That sounds like a complete contradiction in terms.
I wouldn't be as educated as you so please explain in detail the intricacies of this intriguing tactical battle.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 13/11/2023 02:56:41    2512624

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It was good game to watch in fairness. That is the best judge of any sport."
However, there's an old but wise saying, "one swallow never made a summer."

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3385 - 13/11/2023 10:25:11    2512639

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Replying To supersub15:  "The thread title and question is, Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved? The way I see it is the game needs too many fixes to put it back on track and knowing how head office works it takes forever to make the simplest of changes, even one change can take an eternity, so to answer the question of the post creator, no it can't be saved that is in its current state unless the game is reinvented.



No matter how terrible the game looked as it was being played in the mid 1980's, in some people's view at the very least it had masses of excitement and a lot of passion both for the teams involved on the day, its supporters and neutral followers.

From the mid 1980's to 2000, not all games were pretty to watch but all games were watchable, fact, so if we look at Leinster a province that got the same respect and feared as much as Ulster, Munster and Connaught, single out Meath, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath and Louth with no disrespect to the remaining Leinster counties but those had no fear of Dublin, if the truth was known Dublin probably feared them more, the remaining counties of Carlow, Wicklow, Wexford and Longford were always confident that they could and would beat a fancied favourite on any given day if they caught them unawares.2001 / 2002 saw the introduction of the back door system and the good fortune of the surprise that the weaker counties had was about to come to an end.

Laois was charged up enough to win themselves a Leinster title in 2003, so too was Westmeath, they won theirs in 2004, although the fate of Leinster football was changing at speed, 2009 / '10 saw the last of greatness that any Meath team produced over the years, Louth who were always a serious threat to most teams in Leinster reached the 2010 Leinster senior football final but they lost out by the narrowest of margins.

Cork won the All-Ireland SF final in 2010 but haven't been heard of since, Meath who won the Leinster final the same year fell on hard time too, they had to contest the T.C. which they won this year. Louth fell down to div. 4 but appear to be on the way back. Kildare who lost out to Down in the 2010 semi final by their own standards fell on hard times as well. Laois who won their Leinster in 2003 see themselves now in div.4. where as Westmeath are hanging in there.

Leinster now belongs to the mighty Dub's and because they won this years All Ireland senior football out of Div.2 it appears as if the rest of the country belongs to them as well.

So perhaps, and maybe you might understand why I say Gaelic football cannot be saved unless it is reinvented.

A 13 man team is the first change that must be made."
We reached 2 Leinster finals and an AISF at the turn of the noughties also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 18927 - 13/11/2023 11:22:07    2512653

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Newcastle West & Clonmel was equally difficult to watch yesterday , loads of fit players on the field but most trying to stop the other team playing rather than doing anything creative themselves . Clonmel had a few players with creativity & Football skills been the difference.

OpenStand (Limerick) - Posts: 765 - 13/11/2023 11:26:44    2512656

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Replying To Viking66:  "We reached 2 Leinster finals and an AISF at the turn of the noughties also."
Absolutely, if I was to mention all the positives of those years sure I'd be here forever, also when Jason Ryan was in charge the future was looking really bright for Wexford.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3385 - 13/11/2023 12:07:12    2512679

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Just wondering how 13 aside would stop Dublin dominating football????

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2558 - 13/11/2023 12:32:51    2512686

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Just wondering how 13 aside would stop Dublin dominating football????"
Stopping Dublin dominating is not what this topic is about. Its about how we (or can we) combat the way modern teams play Gaelic football which is so different to what the essence of how it used to be played and how people find the modern approach of blanket defense and repetitive uncontested handpassing boring.
If this topic was about making more inter County games competitive the first rule I would change is to go back to 3 subs per match.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 13/11/2023 13:29:10    2512705

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Putting an occasional 20-metres+ "required kick" into the rules, would make the game less sterile but keep much of its tactical elements.
It would need to be trialled, of course - trust but verify.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 13/11/2023 14:21:47    2512719

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13-a-side would also help smaller counties/clubs. They might have 13 good players, less likely to have 15.

befair (Down) - Posts: 238 - 13/11/2023 18:27:45    2512807

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Stopping Dublin dominating is not what this topic is about. Its about how we (or can we) combat the way modern teams play Gaelic football which is so different to what the essence of how it used to be played and how people find the modern approach of blanket defense and repetitive uncontested handpassing boring.
If this topic was about making more inter County games competitive the first rule I would change is to go back to 3 subs per match."
The irony here of course is that Dublin, the greatest team of them all, were the chief architects of the no-risk possession style we all love to hate.

Anyway a couple of points on the rules issue at hand;
The core issue is creating a proper contest for possession in open play. Poor implementation of rules on steps, throwing the ball, lying on the ball in possession and double bouncing the damn ball are all contributing. Hard to blame refs because if they called it all correctly there would be a riot.

13 a side would be a disaster as it would just mean more room to overcafry the ball and hold possession uncontested

There is too much emphasis on kick out rules it's what happens after the kick-out that's the problem.

Finally, beware the archetypal Kerryman on a rules committee. He will approach the task looking to improve Kerrys chance of winning, instead of looking to improve the game.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1294 - 13/11/2023 19:28:45    2512819

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