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Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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I see a (kind of) related topic has been posted regarding the number of bad County finals played recently. https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/112514?Latest=1#Latest bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 01/11/2023 08:15:50 2511122 Link
Replying To Viking66: "That's the one. And Id extend it to you can't pass it back into your own half once it has left your half." I would go with that and do away with the mark as it slows the game down. Any rule change should be simple and easy for Ref to detect. The game is killing itself helped by enlarge by coaches and guys doing stats. Anothev rule I would change!- Refs should not be doing the line -use linesmen. browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 01/11/2023 12:57:25 2511163 Link
Replying To New&Improved: "I'd agree with this, hand passing as a skill is not the problem, its the fact that teams are passing the ball around in their own half unchallenged that slows the game down and makes it less exciting to watch. BTW, not surprised this is coming from a Meath man, remembering Kevin Foley's goal in 1991 :)" That game had that good attacking hand passing move all right. It also was a game that had a lot of long kicking. Back then there was just more space for players to play meaning much more kicking, more man on man contests. Hand passing moves, when executed back then tended to be much more purposeful with a view at getting at teams. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 01/11/2023 14:56:25 2511173 Link
Replying To omahant: "Yes, I agree - in the Aussie AFL the ball moves quickly, often with a string of four or more hand passes. Given the size of their pitch, there is planty of kicking as well in order to cover vast territory. Would my kick rule, into or out of the middle third, be that difficult to administer?" Am I right in saying your rule is if a team hand passes the ball into the area between the two 45m lines the next movement of the ball has to be a kick (as opposed to a handpass)?. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 01/11/2023 15:13:23 2511180 Link
Massed defences are a symptom and not really the core problem in football. The main problem is lack of a proper contest for possession, which is a fundamental of all non turn-based sports. A secondary problem is lack of reward for risk in attack. How do you get the ball back? Very difficult, for a number of reasons. The logical solution is to mass the defence. Any changes made have to address this problem, and also be enforceable by a lone referee. Setting rules about numbers of players confined to zones are destined to fail. Some points on this: 1. Implementing the steps rule properly would be a massive benefit. Increase to 5 steps and enforce rigidly 2. A player in possession going to ground/off their feet in their own half must release the ball or play ball away immediately. 3. Throwing the ball is endemic, especially in close quarter situations. Clear striking action with closed fist. End of story 4. Abolish all hand-passed points 5. Goals scored by hand from ball in flight from kicks only 6. All technical fouls to be be penalized with an indirect free kick to turn over possession and restart (exception in penalty area) 7. Goalkeepers can only kick pass the ball. Goalkeepers cannot play ball to player they received ball from and vice versa. 8. A ball carried or passed back into the 45m zone cannot be hand-passed until it leaves the 45m zone 9. 2 points for points outside 45m line Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1294 - 01/11/2023 17:36:21 2511212 Link
Yes, my initial thought was the next play needs to be a kick either "within the zone" over both 65s, or "out of the zone" crossing the opposing 65 & 45. Upon further reflection, perhaps it's cleaner to think of it as ultimately a kick out of the zone (across the opposing 65 & 45) but allow for other plays in the interim within the middle zone before that required kick. What do you think - simpler to think of it as 'kick in or out' of the middle zone (so across either the defensive 45 & 65 or attacking 65 & 45, but not count across both 65s)? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 02/11/2023 03:45:13 2511238 Link
Make a very simple, easy to ref and easy to buy into rule. Max 3 hand passes in succession. We've tried variants of this (max 1, 2 and 3 hand passes in a row) in high tempo training matches and players latched on to it pretty much immediately. It's workable. No lines, no backwards passes to try and monitor and ref. Just a quick count of hand passes, it's actually easy to do. It opens up way more kick passing and fast movement of the ball into attacking positions. Gaelic football is arguably the best sport in the world to watch and to play when played in an attacking, fast moving manner, so it doesn't need to 'be saved', it can be tweaked though and this is worth trying. togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 1124 - 02/11/2023 09:15:09 2511245 Link
Replying To omahant: "Yes, my initial thought was the next play needs to be a kick either "within the zone" over both 65s, or "out of the zone" crossing the opposing 65 & 45. Upon further reflection, perhaps it's cleaner to think of it as ultimately a kick out of the zone (across the opposing 65 & 45) but allow for other plays in the interim within the middle zone before that required kick. What do you think - simpler to think of it as 'kick in or out' of the middle zone (so across either the defensive 45 & 65 or attacking 65 & 45, but not count across both 65s)?" Trying to make this as simple as possible - say, receive a kick pass in midfield (between both 65s) from the defensive zone (behind own 45), or if not so received, the team must execute a kick instead from midfield to the attacking zone (beyond other 45) with a series of passing, backwards and forwards, allowed behind the other 65 before the kick is executed (shot clock limits diddling and dawdling). Still too hard to implement - I don't think so, if we keep it simple? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 02/11/2023 20:33:50 2511349 Link
Replying To omahant: "Trying to make this as simple as possible - say, receive a kick pass in midfield (between both 65s) from the defensive zone (behind own 45), or if not so received, the team must execute a kick instead from midfield to the attacking zone (beyond other 45) with a series of passing, backwards and forwards, allowed behind the other 65 before the kick is executed (shot clock limits diddling and dawdling). Still too hard to implement - I don't think so, if we keep it simple?" So are you saying hand passing is limited to the areas of the field between the 45m line and the goal line and when kicking out of these areas the ball has to travel at least to the 65m line? bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 03/11/2023 11:36:22 2511399 Link
Just wondering is it a computer game we're trying to design on this thread sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 1109 - 03/11/2023 11:56:03 2511405 Link
Replying To togoutlads: "Make a very simple, easy to ref and easy to buy into rule. Max 3 hand passes in succession. We've tried variants of this (max 1, 2 and 3 hand passes in a row) in high tempo training matches and players latched on to it pretty much immediately. It's workable. No lines, no backwards passes to try and monitor and ref. Just a quick count of hand passes, it's actually easy to do. It opens up way more kick passing and fast movement of the ball into attacking positions. Gaelic football is arguably the best sport in the world to watch and to play when played in an attacking, fast moving manner, so it doesn't need to 'be saved', it can be tweaked though and this is worth trying." It will result in big lumped in kick passes.. back to the glory days of 80s…. Is that what you want to see? Sport is about winning ultimately. Coaches will find ways to exploit it. It even promotes defensive systems.. if I was a coach against your so called 3 passes… I would drop every player back… let your team come with the ball… and just wait… press hard on the 3rd passed to player knowing he has to kick.,l so he just kicks aimlessly in on top of my 3 sweepers.. easy veterngaa (Monaghan) - Posts: 998 - 03/11/2023 12:16:55 2511413 Link
You can make as many rule changes as you like in Gaelic Football. Some of them will make it a better game to watch for some spectators, TV audience and online supporters with their 'analysis'. Watching a game on TV or seeing highlights later is not getting a good feel for the game. But there will still be risk averse coaches that will do their best to prevent opponents winning games by keeping games lowscoring. And even if that's only 1% of games after any proposed rule changes are implemented a clickbait media will focus on these negatives and create more clickbait by focussing on the new negative play and push a new agenda on rule changes. Changing rules is a good thing but media will continue to find negativity to sell more papers and online stuff that no-one needs. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8487 - 03/11/2023 12:19:48 2511414 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "So are you saying hand passing is limited to the areas of the field between the 45m line and the goal line and when kicking out of these areas the ball has to travel at least to the 65m line?" No - no restriction on handpasses anywhere on the field - and say, if a player soloes past his own 45 (or kicks short or hand passes to a team mate just beyond it), then the two-line kick into midfield did not occur and the attacking team (even after unlimited passes within the zone) has to kick it it out to beyond the attacking 45 from between the 65s or further back. I think this stimulates a better mix and match of unlimited quick short hand passing and occasional longer kicks. Would need to be trialled of course - but do you think it would work? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 03/11/2023 13:55:48 2511429 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "So are you saying hand passing is limited to the areas of the field between the 45m line and the goal line and when kicking out of these areas the ball has to travel at least to the 65m line?" No - no restriction on handpasses anywhere on the field - and say, if a player soloes past his own 45 (or kicks short or hand passes to a team mate just beyond it), then the two-line kick into midfield did not occur and the attacking team (even after unlimited passes within the zone) has to kick it it out to beyond the attacking 45 from between the 65s or further back. Alternatively, if the ball is kicked in to midfield from behind the defensive 45, the attacking team is now free to play as they wish - e.g. hand pass or solo upfield with the kick out of the zone not required. Simply put - it's a kick in OR out of the middle third of the field (approx 55 metres between the two 45s). I think this stimulates a better mix and match of unlimited quick short hand passing and occasional longer kicks. Would need to be trialled of course - but do you think it would work? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 03/11/2023 14:03:26 2511431 Link
Replying To omahant: "No - no restriction on handpasses anywhere on the field - and say, if a player soloes past his own 45 (or kicks short or hand passes to a team mate just beyond it), then the two-line kick into midfield did not occur and the attacking team (even after unlimited passes within the zone) has to kick it it out to beyond the attacking 45 from between the 65s or further back. Alternatively, if the ball is kicked in to midfield from behind the defensive 45, the attacking team is now free to play as they wish - e.g. hand pass or solo upfield with the kick out of the zone not required. Simply put - it's a kick in OR out of the middle third of the field (approx 55 metres between the two 45s). I think this stimulates a better mix and match of unlimited quick short hand passing and occasional longer kicks. Would need to be trialled of course - but do you think it would work?" It sounds slightly complicated to referee. From seeing previous posts is there a rule with similarities to this in American football?, if yes how does it work well in American football?. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1416 - 03/11/2023 14:42:16 2511442 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "It sounds slightly complicated to referee. From seeing previous posts is there a rule with similarities to this in American football?, if yes how does it work well in American football?." In fairness to American Football, I don't think there is. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4625 - 03/11/2023 18:43:42 2511461 Link
Nothing like this in Amer Foot - closest I can think of is Ice Hockey - two line play not allowed ("icing" violation). omahant (USA) - Posts: 3380 - 03/11/2023 19:36:27 2511463 Link
Replying To veterngaa: "It will result in big lumped in kick passes.. back to the glory days of 80s…. Is that what you want to see? Sport is about winning ultimately. Coaches will find ways to exploit it. It even promotes defensive systems.. if I was a coach against your so called 3 passes… I would drop every player back… let your team come with the ball… and just wait… press hard on the 3rd passed to player knowing he has to kick.,l so he just kicks aimlessly in on top of my 3 sweepers.. easy" Do I want to see kick passes? Emphatically, yes! It's called football for goodness sakes. Do they have to be 'big, lumped in' ones? I don't believe so. I think the kick passing skill set will be worked on more and more if there's curtailment of hand passing. And if these kick passes don't always come off well guess what, there's turnovers and immediate counterattack opportunities. It could make for livelier, more open games and should be trialled. togoutlads (Galway) - Posts: 1124 - 03/11/2023 23:38:36 2511477 Link
I really do just think that the game is very good when played by 2 good teams. When it's not or a team is trying to be ultra-defensive to keep things tight then it can be pig ugly. A lot of sports are like that though. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4615 - 04/11/2023 13:34:02 2511490 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I really do just think that the game is very good when played by 2 good teams. When it's not or a team is trying to be ultra-defensive to keep things tight then it can be pig ugly. A lot of sports are like that though." Usually, but we've also seen games where two good teams are so focussed on trying to nullify each other's strengths, that the game turns into a cagey risk-averse contest. It's very much down to the mindset and strategy of the management teams. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2744 - 05/11/2023 09:26:44 2511536 Link