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Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "The problem as regards fouling is that virtually no contact is allowed at all…. Referees are too quick to stick their arm up in the air when they notice the slightest contact… It's ridiculous.. It's slowly turning into a non contact sport thanks to silly refereeing..!"
How right you are.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6144 - 17/04/2024 19:21:13    2538701

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Rule says you have to tackle the BALL."
Turning into a game for whimps… the standard of referring is a joke… running around with their arm constantly up in the air…they are ruining the game.. It's no wonder so many are turning their back on it… Wakey up GAA

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 17/04/2024 22:02:45    2538732

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Turning into a game for whimps… the standard of referring is a joke… running around with their arm constantly up in the air…they are ruining the game.. It's no wonder so many are turning their back on it… Wakey up GAA"
The cow jumped over the moon and the dish ran away with the spoon

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 18/04/2024 08:25:19    2538764

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Rule says you have to tackle the BALL."
I remember in the 1980s being thought it's ok to tackle the man with one arm but if you put both arms around your man that was considered grabbing him and you'd get a free against you.

Now you teach kids they can only tackle the ball.
You also tell them if they tackle with the far arm referees will usually give a free against them so to use their near arm when tackling.

I often wondered did the rules around tackling change or do referees just interpret the same rules differently from what they did in the past? (genuine question as referees definitely referee the tackle differently to the past but I never remember hearing about any rule changes around tackling in that time).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 18/04/2024 09:58:02    2538774

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I remember in the 1980s being thought it's ok to tackle the man with one arm but if you put both arms around your man that was considered grabbing him and you'd get a free against you.

Now you teach kids they can only tackle the ball.
You also tell them if they tackle with the far arm referees will usually give a free against them so to use their near arm when tackling.

I often wondered did the rules around tackling change or do referees just interpret the same rules differently from what they did in the past? (genuine question as referees definitely referee the tackle differently to the past but I never remember hearing about any rule changes around tackling in that time)."
As the great Mick O'Connell once said if you put your hand on a man it's a foul.
Now if Refs gave a free every time that happened we'd have 5 frees per minute.
Only legal physical contact is shoulder to shoulder, feet on ground etc.

Would be a help if Refs group, GPA , managers, coaches could get together and agree on an interpretation and try to apply it consistently.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 18/04/2024 10:40:23    2538786

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Turning into a game for whimps… the standard of referring is a joke… running around with their arm constantly up in the air…they are ruining the game.. It's no wonder so many are turning their back on it… Wakey up GAA"
With the great strength and conditioning of modern day players it's a shame referees don't let a bit more go in the tackle, the players would be well able for it.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 18/04/2024 10:48:25    2538788

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I remember in the 1980s being thought it's ok to tackle the man with one arm but if you put both arms around your man that was considered grabbing him and you'd get a free against you.

Now you teach kids they can only tackle the ball.
You also tell them if they tackle with the far arm referees will usually give a free against them so to use their near arm when tackling.

I often wondered did the rules around tackling change or do referees just interpret the same rules differently from what they did in the past? (genuine question as referees definitely referee the tackle differently to the past but I never remember hearing about any rule changes around tackling in that time)."
I think there was a sudden craze around "consistency" in the late 2010s which was always going to be unachievable. There was an attempt to make things more black and white but the tackle in gaelic football is not black and white and never will be. It will always be subject to the referee's discretion. Personally I think there was more consistency when referees were allowing for minor pulling and dragging, and therefore giving less frees.

97Cavans (Cavan) - Posts: 377 - 18/04/2024 11:12:15    2538798

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "As the great Mick O'Connell once said if you put your hand on a man it's a foul.
Now if Refs gave a free every time that happened we'd have 5 frees per minute.
Only legal physical contact is shoulder to shoulder, feet on ground etc.

Would be a help if Refs group, GPA , managers, coaches could get together and agree on an interpretation and try to apply it consistently."
There was many a good hand put on Mick O Connell and he got no free nor did he look for one either… The game is ruined by referees going strictly by the rule book and not using a bit of common sense… It's amazing how they have their arm up for the slightest touch or pull yet they and their 6 assistants can't see anything when a serious incident happens…!!!!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 18/04/2024 13:12:02    2538837

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "With the great strength and conditioning of modern day players it's a shame referees don't let a bit more go in the tackle, the players would be well able for it."
Where do you draw the line then - surely you're not proposing a full-blooded Aussie AFL/rugby tackle?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2887 - 20/04/2024 02:38:02    2539156

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Replying To omahant:  "Where do you draw the line then - surely you're not proposing a full-blooded Aussie AFL/rugby tackle?"
No I'm sure he means for referees to use a bit of common sense and not be continuously running around with an arm up in the air for the slightest infringement… this just infuriates both players and spectators..

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 20/04/2024 08:02:45    2539163

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "There was many a good hand put on Mick O Connell and he got no free nor did he look for one either… The game is ruined by referees going strictly by the rule book and not using a bit of common sense… It's amazing how they have their arm up for the slightest touch or pull yet they and their 6 assistants can't see anything when a serious incident happens…!!!!!"
That's some statement. The game is ruined by referees going strictly by the rule book is is basically saying the referee is ruining the game by doing their job. Maybe it's the rules that need changing?

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 780 - 20/04/2024 10:53:32    2539181

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "That's some statement. The game is ruined by referees going strictly by the rule book is is basically saying the referee is ruining the game by doing their job. Maybe it's the rules that need changing?"
You conveniently left out " common sense "… The rules are part of the problem but the standard of refereeing is woeful… Last weekend a Dublin player can take 10 steps and score a goal yet a Meath player catches a great ball in mid field and gets blown up for over carrying without ever taking a step… Great refereeing you think…?

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3025 - 20/04/2024 11:22:27    2539188

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Replying To omahant:  "Where do you draw the line then - surely you're not proposing a full-blooded Aussie AFL/rugby tackle?"
What I'm talking about here is tackling in gaelic football to be refereed like it was 20 or 30 years ago when more psychical contact with the man was allowed in the tackle.
The way the game is refereed is too much on the side of man in possession and against the tackler nowadays.

I have heard it suggested by people that allowing an Aussie Rules tackle may be one way of discouraging keep ball tactics but I'd prefer to use other type rule changes to steer the game away from keep ball/ blanket tactics.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 20/04/2024 12:50:06    2539206

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "That's some statement. The game is ruined by referees going strictly by the rule book is is basically saying the referee is ruining the game by doing their job. Maybe it's the rules that need changing?"
I've heard the same type of statement (referee needs to use common sense rather than strictly following the rule book) be used about other team field sports I've watched. Same as in general life in sport you often have to use common sense.

Maybe it would be no harm if the GAA looked at the tackle and referenced in the rule book that a tackle on the man is allowed but listed specifics of what's not allowed (pulling jersey/ grabbing other players by arms and legs/ grabbing player with 2 arms etc. etc.)

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 20/04/2024 12:59:27    2539210

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I've heard the same type of statement (referee needs to use common sense rather than strictly following the rule book) be used about other team field sports I've watched. Same as in general life in sport you often have to use common sense.

Maybe it would be no harm if the GAA looked at the tackle and referenced in the rule book that a tackle on the man is allowed but listed specifics of what's not allowed (pulling jersey/ grabbing other players by arms and legs/ grabbing player with 2 arms etc. etc.)"
Hearing it mentioned doesn't make it right. Having rules is about creating a consistent and equal game for everyone. A sport can't work by saying use your common sense.

It's not an easy game to referee and giving out about them because they don't apply "common sense" is not helpful.
Help them by cleaning up the rules and making it easier to ref.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 780 - 20/04/2024 13:43:18    2539215

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I've heard the same type of statement (referee needs to use common sense rather than strictly following the rule book) be used about other team field sports I've watched. Same as in general life in sport you often have to use common sense.

Maybe it would be no harm if the GAA looked at the tackle and referenced in the rule book that a tackle on the man is allowed but listed specifics of what's not allowed (pulling jersey/ grabbing other players by arms and legs/ grabbing player with 2 arms etc. etc.)"
I take it you never actually read the "rule book"
Treoir Oifigiúil ?
Page 60 "Definitions" defines the tackle in football and lists all the things you mention.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 20/04/2024 13:53:42    2539217

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "Hearing it mentioned doesn't make it right. Having rules is about creating a consistent and equal game for everyone. A sport can't work by saying use your common sense.

It's not an easy game to referee and giving out about them because they don't apply "common sense" is not helpful.
Help them by cleaning up the rules and making it easier to ref."
Across all sports the highest regarded referees are usually the ones who use common sense.
Rules are written down but rulebook can't forsee all specific situations.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 20/04/2024 17:12:22    2539243

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I take it you never actually read the "rule book"
Treoir Oifigiúil ?
Page 60 "Definitions" defines the tackle in football and lists all the things you mention."
No. As politician Charlie McCreevy said of one of the European treaties he was canvesing for 'who in their right mind would read that'.
Just reading comments here and hearing people talking I often heard people say 'strictly speaking you know your only allowed tackle the ball' so assumed the only rule mentioned is tackles must be on the ball or can tackle shoulder to shoulder with feet on ground.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 20/04/2024 17:26:06    2539248

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "No. As politician Charlie McCreevy said of one of the European treaties he was canvesing for 'who in their right mind would read that'.
Just reading comments here and hearing people talking I often heard people say 'strictly speaking you know your only allowed tackle the ball' so assumed the only rule mentioned is tackles must be on the ball or can tackle shoulder to shoulder with feet on ground."
Presumably rhe GAA rule book is not meant to confuse people the same way as the EU Treaties!

I suppose its a bit like the law. Rules are redefined and reinterpreted over the years without necessarily being changed.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 20/04/2024 17:59:59    2539255

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Retro Jimmy so far. 2/5 Derry might look like free money by end.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 20/04/2024 18:22:51    2539261

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