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Replying To KillingFields: "Do you have anything to back up this statement that is pretty sweeping?
Dropout in GAA and soccer doesnt happen like it does in rugby. Prove it?" Are you actually being serious here? You can't be.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 17/10/2023 12:13:52
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Are you actually being serious here? You can't be." Yes prove it.
do something you have never done and put up links to back up your points. you claim drop out rate in rugby is far higher than soccer or gaa then put up links ie evidence that show this is true
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 17/10/2023 13:21:00
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Replying To KillingFields: "Yes prove it.
do something you have never done and put up links to back up your points. you claim drop out rate in rugby is far higher than soccer or gaa then put up links ie evidence that show this is true" Ah lad you are laughable. Name another argument that I couldn't prove something? You are just raging everyone disagrees with you on another issue. You posted nothing either. A general study about dropout in general which is largely to do with teenage girls. Absolutely zero relevance to what we are talking about.
I was at a conference once with Niall Moyna, Orlagh Farmer from Cork which was very interesting and was very much about what you posted. You seem to post random stuff and think nobody else has seen data and think you are more knowledgeable. In a previous post you mentioned Buccs and ignored my reply. Rugby is making zero progress in rural areas. They are zero threat to the GAA and soccer and that is what this thread is about. The same clubs do ok and it's great to see them thriving but nothing changes at adult level.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 17/10/2023 14:13:29
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Ah lad you are laughable. Name another argument that I couldn't prove something? You are just raging everyone disagrees with you on another issue. You posted nothing either. A general study about dropout in general which is largely to do with teenage girls. Absolutely zero relevance to what we are talking about.
I was at a conference once with Niall Moyna, Orlagh Farmer from Cork which was very interesting and was very much about what you posted. You seem to post random stuff and think nobody else has seen data and think you are more knowledgeable. In a previous post you mentioned Buccs and ignored my reply. Rugby is making zero progress in rural areas. They are zero threat to the GAA and soccer and that is what this thread is about. The same clubs do ok and it's great to see them thriving but nothing changes at adult level." This site doesnt have a search facility but you are deluded if you think in all the years youve posted here youve posted all sorts of opinions and backed up all of them with proof when challenged.
rugby making zero progress in rural areas? Whats that based on as number of club teams, schools playing is far higher than before. playing numbers have increased hugely as per irfu annual reports https://www.irishrugby.ie/irfu/annual-report/ which show that what you are saying is false.
No rugby wont harm the GAA even if there was 500 more clubs but people here would rather rugby die even if it had zero positive impact on the GAA. as they have misguided beliefs about rugby even though they have no direct experience with a rugby club or the sport itself.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 17/10/2023 15:09:17
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Replying To KillingFields: "This site doesnt have a search facility but you are deluded if you think in all the years youve posted here youve posted all sorts of opinions and backed up all of them with proof when challenged.
rugby making zero progress in rural areas? Whats that based on as number of club teams, schools playing is far higher than before. playing numbers have increased hugely as per irfu annual reports https://www.irishrugby.ie/irfu/annual-report/ which show that what you are saying is false.
No rugby wont harm the GAA even if there was 500 more clubs but people here would rather rugby die even if it had zero positive impact on the GAA. as they have misguided beliefs about rugby even though they have no direct experience with a rugby club or the sport itself." And there we go. We are finally back to the topic at hand. How does rugby impact on the GAA? It doesn't. No everyone here wants rugby to die, multiple posters love the game. The problem is posters can't take you seriously and love winding you up. There are no new clubs anywhere in Connacht and Ulster, it's the same clubs and the numbers go up and down. Players who play GAA and Rugby and are talented at both in the rural areas always end up choosing GAA, the numbers who don't are tiny.
Now you are either only involved in rugby or else you choose to ignore what is going on in every rural community that has rugby and GAA. Numbers in schools etc will also go up and down depending on the school and often depending on the teaching staff. But rugby teams are in a tiny minority in schools around the country.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 17/10/2023 15:19:14
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I posted a fact about a private school's Leinster cup winning side with zero players playing rugby at any level inside ten years and the actual captain never playing a rugby game ever again after the school's final. Never has happened in the Gaa, never will happen. To suggest otherwise displays an unbelievable level of ignorance about the Association. Rugby's biggest fault in my view is that players play with countries they've zero allegiance to, Ireland had four starters of seven backs who wouldn't have found the country on a map six years ago and another on the bench, that's ignored in the media.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1916 - 17/10/2023 15:19:33
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The inverted/reverse snobbery on some of the recent Hogan Stand threads/posts are hard to take. I grew up in a 2 bedroom house in a working class area and went to the local tech. It was fantastic to follow our fantastic rugby team (as cheap as I could) with a huge amount of other NORMAL !!! people over the last few weeks.
Some posters have a very negative mindsets (people I tend to avoid in life) and can't wait to criticise some of our top sports people and people who support them.
I include a couple of points for those people to consider and reflect on: No doubt some will jump in straight away and rubbish my arguments without undue consideration.
1. Our team is a whole Ireland team. It that not to be cherished? Jim McCoy and several others put their lives at risk to play for Ireland in the 70's.
Ireland call was specifically written to include all traditions in the island.
2. The GAA BAN was lifted and rightly so in the 1960's.
Young people should be encouraged to play several sports before they decide which sport they should concentrate on. A lot of talented young people want to become professional athletes and hopefully represent their country. The best of luck to them.
3. While many rugby players come from private schools, I believe that things are changing.
I don't think that you could call Andy Farrell (manager), Keith Earl's and Tadgh Furlong etc public school boys. Why tarnish the full team with the same brush?
4. New Zealand who just beat us at the weekend have several players from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji in their teams, for donkeys years, similar to England. Why have a go at the couple of players who could not make the big time in their home countries and moved abroad to try to improve their lives. Some posters seem to have forgotten that many Irish had to emigrate over the centuries. It is likely that we will see some kids of Irish people who emigrated to Australia in the 2000's playing for the Aussies before too long. The best of luck to them as their parents got up of their ***** to make a better life for themselves. The same goes for James, Bundee and Mack etc Delighted to have them playing for Ireland and proud to support them.
letsgetgoing (Roscommon) - Posts: 631 - 17/10/2023 16:27:24
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Replying To Claretandblue: "I posted a fact about a private school's Leinster cup winning side with zero players playing rugby at any level inside ten years and the actual captain never playing a rugby game ever again after the school's final. Never has happened in the Gaa, never will happen. To suggest otherwise displays an unbelievable level of ignorance about the Association. Rugby's biggest fault in my view is that players play with countries they've zero allegiance to, Ireland had four starters of seven backs who wouldn't have found the country on a map six years ago and another on the bench, that's ignored in the media." Mack Hansens mother was born and bred here. Bundee Aki is here 9 years and his 4 kids go to school here or will do. Gibson Park is here 7 years. Lowe 6 years. I don't think their effort for the country can be faulted in any way. Plenty lads born and bred here wouldn't take the hits those lads do for an Irish team.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 17/10/2023 17:17:30
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Replying To Viking66: "Mack Hansens mother was born and bred here. Bundee Aki is here 9 years and his 4 kids go to school here or will do. Gibson Park is here 7 years. Lowe 6 years. I don't think their effort for the country can be faulted in any way. Plenty lads born and bred here wouldn't take the hits those lads do for an Irish team." I have no issue with any of the lads playing for us. One small correction though. Hansen's mother was born here, but she moved to Australia with her family as a child.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 17/10/2023 17:57:32
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Replying To Viking66: "Mack Hansens mother was born and bred here. Bundee Aki is here 9 years and his 4 kids go to school here or will do. Gibson Park is here 7 years. Lowe 6 years. I don't think their effort for the country can be faulted in any way. Plenty lads born and bred here wouldn't take the hits those lads do for an Irish team." Great research viking. All of the above mentioned players have given great service to the Irish team.
Let's get away from saying " they are not irish"
Those players come over here to work and play with passion for the shirt on there backs.
They may not be irish born but so what.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 386 - 17/10/2023 18:00:04
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Still doesn't mean they're remotely Irish qualified. Simply playing for us as well paid and didn't make it in home countries.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1916 - 17/10/2023 18:04:53
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Replying To Viking66: "Mack Hansens mother was born and bred here. Bundee Aki is here 9 years and his 4 kids go to school here or will do. Gibson Park is here 7 years. Lowe 6 years. I don't think their effort for the country can be faulted in any way. Plenty lads born and bred here wouldn't take the hits those lads do for an Irish team." Bundee, Gibson Park and Lowe did take hits, same as Irish players do. Lowe's defending was poor on Saturday night. Three fine players and nice fellas no doubt about it. But none of the three of them would be here if the IRFU hadn't incentivised them to come here. And they're preventing Irish players getting into the squad. While they help to raise the standard of the national team the IRFU need to improve the overall standard of Irish and Irish qualified players. If they bring in players without an Irish connection they can play for the provinces, not for Ireland.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 17/10/2023 18:04:56
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "The inverted/reverse snobbery on some of the recent Hogan Stand threads/posts are hard to take. I grew up in a 2 bedroom house in a working class area and went to the local tech. It was fantastic to follow our fantastic rugby team (as cheap as I could) with a huge amount of other NORMAL !!! people over the last few weeks.
Some posters have a very negative mindsets (people I tend to avoid in life) and can't wait to criticise some of our top sports people and people who support them.
I include a couple of points for those people to consider and reflect on: No doubt some will jump in straight away and rubbish my arguments without undue consideration.
1. Our team is a whole Ireland team. It that not to be cherished? Jim McCoy and several others put their lives at risk to play for Ireland in the 70's.
Ireland call was specifically written to include all traditions in the island.
2. The GAA BAN was lifted and rightly so in the 1960's.
Young people should be encouraged to play several sports before they decide which sport they should concentrate on. A lot of talented young people want to become professional athletes and hopefully represent their country. The best of luck to them.
3. While many rugby players come from private schools, I believe that things are changing.
I don't think that you could call Andy Farrell (manager), Keith Earl's and Tadgh Furlong etc public school boys. Why tarnish the full team with the same brush?
4. New Zealand who just beat us at the weekend have several players from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji in their teams, for donkeys years, similar to England. Why have a go at the couple of players who could not make the big time in their home countries and moved abroad to try to improve their lives. Some posters seem to have forgotten that many Irish had to emigrate over the centuries. It is likely that we will see some kids of Irish people who emigrated to Australia in the 2000's playing for the Aussies before too long. The best of luck to them as their parents got up of their ***** to make a better life for themselves. The same goes for James, Bundee and Mack etc Delighted to have them playing for Ireland and proud to support them." I acknowledge the above, but will make a point that not all questioning of rugby's structures should be taken as ignorance or a dislike of rugby.
I enjoy watching Connacht and our Irish rugby teams. I was very disappointed when we lost in Saturday and have huge admiration for a lot of the players.
All that said, it can't be disputed that if you have the ability to go to a rugby playing private school, your chances of making it to the highest level are significantly greater. Not just twice or three times, but as much as 30 times greater. That's an incredible statistic.
That for me is a problem and does show an element of elitism in rugby's structures. The Tadhg Furlongs or Sean O'Briens are still very much in the minority.
The IRFU have a lot of work to do to make it a more representative sport.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 17/10/2023 18:06:26
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Daft question, and answer is "no it won't". I know quite a few Gaelic footballers in Tyrone who play rugby and soccer in the off-season.
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 275 - 17/10/2023 18:11:09
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Replying To Viking66: "Mack Hansens mother was born and bred here. Bundee Aki is here 9 years and his 4 kids go to school here or will do. Gibson Park is here 7 years. Lowe 6 years. I don't think their effort for the country can be faulted in any way. Plenty lads born and bred here wouldn't take the hits those lads do for an Irish team." That's not the point though. Of course they're all-in, or they wouldn't be there. The point is there's 3 New Zealanders and an Aussie in our back7. Just like Stuttgart '88, when half of Jack's team weren't born in Ireland.
Are the IRFU currently scouting worldwide talent, to alleviate potential skill position deficits in the next world cup squad? They probably are? Aki, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Hansen were 4 fantastic 'recruits' in fairness to IRFU. They really hit on 'the draft' there.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 17/10/2023 18:30:17
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Replying To KillingFields: "This site doesnt have a search facility but you are deluded if you think in all the years youve posted here youve posted all sorts of opinions and backed up all of them with proof when challenged.
rugby making zero progress in rural areas? Whats that based on as number of club teams, schools playing is far higher than before. playing numbers have increased hugely as per irfu annual reports https://www.irishrugby.ie/irfu/annual-report/ which show that what you are saying is false.
No rugby wont harm the GAA even if there was 500 more clubs but people here would rather rugby die even if it had zero positive impact on the GAA. as they have misguided beliefs about rugby even though they have no direct experience with a rugby club or the sport itself." There you go. Your last sentence is a big reason for the contrast between the GAA and rugby. Majority of those lads playing high level schools rugby don't even have direct experience of playing with a club hence the drop off when fishing school.
Which is a shame considering the high level they play at in the senior cup.
Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 54 - 17/10/2023 18:34:49
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Replying To TheFlaker: "And there we go. We are finally back to the topic at hand. How does rugby impact on the GAA? It doesn't. No everyone here wants rugby to die, multiple posters love the game. The problem is posters can't take you seriously and love winding you up. There are no new clubs anywhere in Connacht and Ulster, it's the same clubs and the numbers go up and down. Players who play GAA and Rugby and are talented at both in the rural areas always end up choosing GAA, the numbers who don't are tiny.
Now you are either only involved in rugby or else you choose to ignore what is going on in every rural community that has rugby and GAA. Numbers in schools etc will also go up and down depending on the school and often depending on the teaching staff. But rugby teams are in a tiny minority in schools around the country." I'm a member of a rural club. We only have 1 underage lad that also plays rugby. He said in general he prefers rugby. He only plays hurling for the club. I asked him what he preferred about rugby and he said "Discipline". One word answer.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 17/10/2023 20:20:57
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Replying To TheFlaker: "And there we go. We are finally back to the topic at hand. How does rugby impact on the GAA? It doesn't. No everyone here wants rugby to die, multiple posters love the game. The problem is posters can't take you seriously and love winding you up. There are no new clubs anywhere in Connacht and Ulster, it's the same clubs and the numbers go up and down. Players who play GAA and Rugby and are talented at both in the rural areas always end up choosing GAA, the numbers who don't are tiny.
Now you are either only involved in rugby or else you choose to ignore what is going on in every rural community that has rugby and GAA. Numbers in schools etc will also go up and down depending on the school and often depending on the teaching staff. But rugby teams are in a tiny minority in schools around the country." And you constantly take me far too seriously. You go over the top even though I've clearly been winding you up.
It's way too easy to get you wound up. Plenty of others do the same to you.
No new clubs in Connacht since when?
Same with Ulster. What time frame are you saying there hasn't been any new clubs?
Talented players always choose Gaa? Not true. If that was true plenty of pro rugby players who wrote county minors etc would have stayed in gaa...
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 17/10/2023 20:51:49
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "The inverted/reverse snobbery on some of the recent Hogan Stand threads/posts are hard to take. I grew up in a 2 bedroom house in a working class area and went to the local tech. It was fantastic to follow our fantastic rugby team (as cheap as I could) with a huge amount of other NORMAL !!! people over the last few weeks.
Some posters have a very negative mindsets (people I tend to avoid in life) and can't wait to criticise some of our top sports people and people who support them.
I include a couple of points for those people to consider and reflect on: No doubt some will jump in straight away and rubbish my arguments without undue consideration.
1. Our team is a whole Ireland team. It that not to be cherished? Jim McCoy and several others put their lives at risk to play for Ireland in the 70's.
Ireland call was specifically written to include all traditions in the island.
2. The GAA BAN was lifted and rightly so in the 1960's.
Young people should be encouraged to play several sports before they decide which sport they should concentrate on. A lot of talented young people want to become professional athletes and hopefully represent their country. The best of luck to them.
3. While many rugby players come from private schools, I believe that things are changing.
I don't think that you could call Andy Farrell (manager), Keith Earl's and Tadgh Furlong etc public school boys. Why tarnish the full team with the same brush?
4. New Zealand who just beat us at the weekend have several players from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji in their teams, for donkeys years, similar to England. Why have a go at the couple of players who could not make the big time in their home countries and moved abroad to try to improve their lives. Some posters seem to have forgotten that many Irish had to emigrate over the centuries. It is likely that we will see some kids of Irish people who emigrated to Australia in the 2000's playing for the Aussies before too long. The best of luck to them as their parents got up of their ***** to make a better life for themselves. The same goes for James, Bundee and Mack etc Delighted to have them playing for Ireland and proud to support them." Re point 2
I mentioned this in reply to another Cork poster regarding the same issue,, I'm not sure what it's like in roscommon but here in galway city there's plenty of anti gaa snobbery too, as I'm sure there is in other parts of the country, this never seems to get called out for some reason
Re point 4
It's not really too unreasonable to believe that our sporting success on the international stage would be more enjoyable and genuine if all of our players were born and reared here.
It would be interesting to see if those players you mentioned even consider themselves Irish.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 17/10/2023 21:04:06
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "The inverted/reverse snobbery on some of the recent Hogan Stand threads/posts are hard to take. I grew up in a 2 bedroom house in a working class area and went to the local tech. It was fantastic to follow our fantastic rugby team (as cheap as I could) with a huge amount of other NORMAL !!! people over the last few weeks.
Some posters have a very negative mindsets (people I tend to avoid in life) and can't wait to criticise some of our top sports people and people who support them.
I include a couple of points for those people to consider and reflect on: No doubt some will jump in straight away and rubbish my arguments without undue consideration.
1. Our team is a whole Ireland team. It that not to be cherished? Jim McCoy and several others put their lives at risk to play for Ireland in the 70's.
Ireland call was specifically written to include all traditions in the island.
2. The GAA BAN was lifted and rightly so in the 1960's.
Young people should be encouraged to play several sports before they decide which sport they should concentrate on. A lot of talented young people want to become professional athletes and hopefully represent their country. The best of luck to them.
3. While many rugby players come from private schools, I believe that things are changing.
I don't think that you could call Andy Farrell (manager), Keith Earl's and Tadgh Furlong etc public school boys. Why tarnish the full team with the same brush?
4. New Zealand who just beat us at the weekend have several players from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji in their teams, for donkeys years, similar to England. Why have a go at the couple of players who could not make the big time in their home countries and moved abroad to try to improve their lives. Some posters seem to have forgotten that many Irish had to emigrate over the centuries. It is likely that we will see some kids of Irish people who emigrated to Australia in the 2000's playing for the Aussies before too long. The best of luck to them as their parents got up of their ***** to make a better life for themselves. The same goes for James, Bundee and Mack etc Delighted to have them playing for Ireland and proud to support them." 100% agree. All the above named players add significantly to the team. Without them I very much doubt Ireland would be nearly as successful as they are today. Excellent post. Well done.
Magpie2 (Wexford) - Posts: 386 - 17/10/2023 23:11:51
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