National Forum

Provincial Championships 2024

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Very fair point CP that that's the system we have for 2024 so we'll live with it. But if Donegal or Armagh win Ulster will they be given the Anglo-Celt Cup or blazers for everyone in the squad and backroom with a 'We got top seed in the group status' badge on it? Do Galway and ourselves, already through to the round robin, not want to win the Nestor Cup? The provincial finalists status is skewing league finishing positions in terms of seedings, not the other way round. The seeding system, depending on motivation to win either, kinda diminishes both the League and the Provincials. The current system continues raising the questions 'Who really wants to win the league', Who really wants to win provincials' when qualifying for Division 1 in 2023 guarantees you an All Ireland spot in 2024.

I don't know how it could be tweaked but it's worse than the back door All Ireland for me. Not until the group games are over will we really see knockout football. And hurling are straight into intense games with the threat of missing out on path to Liam McCarthy after a few games in April and May. Too many meaningless football games to determine the final 12 teams. For the All Ireland and Small Ireland Championships."
Well at least it gets shot of Mayo before they have the chance to do their usual All Ireland Final day poop.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 387 - 05/05/2024 02:39:14    2543019

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Connacht delivered a competitive provincial final. Something to be celebrated outside of Ulster!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8291 - 05/05/2024 21:05:08    2543218

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Well at least it gets shot of Mayo before they have the chance to do their usual All Ireland Final day poop."
We deserve to be out but this format gives us another go that our league finish already gave us.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 05/05/2024 21:38:23    2543224

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Well at least it gets shot of Mayo before they have the chance to do their usual All Ireland Final day poop."
That's rich coming from someone from monaghan..

S1234 (Mayo) - Posts: 106 - 05/05/2024 22:43:18    2543234

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As of today's result in Leinster and for 14 consecutive years nothing has changed, the problem is Dublin's professionalism with add On's, the rest of the province can be fixed with a little bit of goodwill that would rid the game of a preseason certainty, Leinster as a province is not as imbalanced as some make out, some county players are now saying what is the point. Dublin owns Leinster and over 90% of the rest of the country.


Solution. - - -


Either handicap the Dub's or create a new Super team made up of the top 10 or so counties to compete for the Sam Maguire Cup, the remaining counties compete for the TC on a home and away basis the two finalists would compete in the All-Ireland series proper the following year.


It's blatantly obvious the strong counties are getting stronger with Dublin staying out in front, and the weak counties are getting weaker.


The new fix for the weaker counties is other sports, not more games.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3052 - 05/05/2024 23:03:54    2543238

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Death, taxes and Mayo supporters blaming a referee after another championship defeat!

ahsure. (Galway) - Posts: 1632 - 06/05/2024 00:02:28    2543251

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While Kerry admittedly were only up against Division 3 opposition, they did go to their opponents backyard to win the provincial title. Winning provincial and All-Ireland titles without home advantage always carries more wait of respect. Possibly on a ratio of 3:1 at least.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8291 - 06/05/2024 10:00:20    2543283

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Connacht delivered a competitive provincial final. Something to be celebrated outside of Ulster!"
Here, here!

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2895 - 06/05/2024 13:40:09    2543323

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Replying To supersub15:  "As of today's result in Leinster and for 14 consecutive years nothing has changed, the problem is Dublin's professionalism with add On's, the rest of the province can be fixed with a little bit of goodwill that would rid the game of a preseason certainty, Leinster as a province is not as imbalanced as some make out, some county players are now saying what is the point. Dublin owns Leinster and over 90% of the rest of the country.


Solution. - - -


Either handicap the Dub's or create a new Super team made up of the top 10 or so counties to compete for the Sam Maguire Cup, the remaining counties compete for the TC on a home and away basis the two finalists would compete in the All-Ireland series proper the following year.


It's blatantly obvious the strong counties are getting stronger with Dublin staying out in front, and the weak counties are getting weaker.


The new fix for the weaker counties is other sports, not more games."
How about putting the Dubs in Ulster ???

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2913 - 06/05/2024 16:18:15    2543341

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Replying To sponger:  "How about putting the Dubs in Ulster ???"
I had a more general idea - along the lines of the Copa America and Gold Cup soccer tournaments in the Americas, which regularly invite outside teams:

- Each Prov top 4 initially play double-chance Prelim SFs - two winners to SFs, two losers 'guest' in neighbouring Prov QFs (one to a different Prov).

- All 16 other 'non top 4' teams participate as usual for the remaining eight 'own Prov' QF berths.

So, the 3rd & 4th ranked Ulster sides could be expected to guest in Connacht & Leinster; and Roscommon could potentially guest in Munster.

With only eight teams guesting, 24 of 32 teams exclusively play in their own Prov only.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2895 - 06/05/2024 16:40:47    2543348

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Replying To omahant:  "Here, here!"
Also, I'd prefer if Galway earned two points for this Provincial win towards to AIC group stage, just like the hurlers.

With Kerry having an easier opponent in Clare, if Kerry also got two points, Clare could br scheduled to play 'out of province strong teams' as well, so others have a chance at two pts to balance out the AIC.

If all teams had a 'mixed schedule' across Prov and non-Prov matches, the imperfect Prov system could be retained to preserve tradition within an overall fair AIC competition.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2895 - 06/05/2024 16:54:11    2543351

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Very fair point CP that that's the system we have for 2024 so we'll live with it. But if Donegal or Armagh win Ulster will they be given the Anglo-Celt Cup or blazers for everyone in the squad and backroom with a 'We got top seed in the group status' badge on it? Do Galway and ourselves, already through to the round robin, not want to win the Nestor Cup? The provincial finalists status is skewing league finishing positions in terms of seedings, not the other way round. The seeding system, depending on motivation to win either, kinda diminishes both the League and the Provincials. The current system continues raising the questions 'Who really wants to win the league', Who really wants to win provincials' when qualifying for Division 1 in 2023 guarantees you an All Ireland spot in 2024.

I don't know how it could be tweaked but it's worse than the back door All Ireland for me. Not until the group games are over will we really see knockout football. And hurling are straight into intense games with the threat of missing out on path to Liam McCarthy after a few games in April and May. Too many meaningless football games to determine the final 12 teams. For the All Ireland and Small Ireland Championships."
A straightforward way to solve it, is to seed all teams 1to32 based on the final league tables, promotion and relegation, and the 4 league finals.

Then you liven up the provincial championships by swopping the seedings, when a lower seed beats a higher seed. This solves the Cavan/Monaghan issue this year, and would give Cavan tangible reward for their win, gaining the higher seeding from Monaghan before the group draw. Another example would be Sligo very nearly beating Galway two weeks ago. If Sligo won that, the seed swop puts them in Sam Maguire, and Galway in the Tailteann cup. Wouldn't have anyone complaining about a lack of jeopardy then!

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3875 - 06/05/2024 17:22:35    2543359

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Replying To sponger:  "How about putting the Dubs in Ulster ???"
Top 10 counties play for the Sam Maguire. The remaining 22 play for the Tailteann Cup.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3052 - 06/05/2024 20:48:56    2543393

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Replying To ahsure.:  "Death, taxes and Mayo supporters blaming a referee after another championship defeat!"
Even some Galway ones admitted gough was harsh you can't see that as in cloud land..

But good luck v derry cause ye will need it.

S1234 (Mayo) - Posts: 106 - 06/05/2024 23:48:51    2543421

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Replying To supersub15:  "Top 10 counties play for the Sam Maguire. The remaining 22 play for the Tailteann Cup."
There is too much disparity there among the 22 - maybe three tiers then - 12-10-10 (with the 2 Tier 2 Prelim QF losers dropping down to 12-team Tier 3).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2895 - 07/05/2024 01:38:58    2543428

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Sunday was a good promotion day for the provincial championships anyway. Even with only 12,000 on Ennis. Not much will be expected from the Leinster final but Ulster is the standout battle as always to watch.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8291 - 07/05/2024 17:46:52    2543548

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