|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Glad to see a good discussion going on here anyway. Going to reply to a few people without actually quoting their posts in full:
@farneygossip & BarrowSider - agree that the survey is very leading. I could put up a couple of examples, but conscious that this post might already be fairly long!
@Gaaforlife23 - asking "unless people don't want to help the women's game?" suggests to me that you're conflating the questions "would integration bring benefits overall?" and "what benefits would integration bring for the GAA?". As regards "issues early on", I'd suggest there should be a comprehensive and detailed framework in place for such things before integration happens at all, so that they don't actually become issues in the first place.
Also - I don't have a solution, and am not asking for a solution. Again, my question is simply "what benefits would integration bring for the GAA?"
@GreenandRed - best answer yet as regards potential benefits, e.g. the extra publicity that LGFA gets from its deal with Lidl, and greater collective bargaining power when dealing with suppliers, etc. Thanks.
@KillingFields - whether you split that job by gender, age, or even alphabetically (e.g. "I'll do A to L, and you do M to Z"), it would still be two people doing essentially the same job, and so it wouldn't be a case of removing duplication of roles, which you originally suggested would be a benefit.
@arock - in fairness, how those large Dublin clubs operate is very different in many ways to how most clubs around the country operate, not least in the sort of membership fees charged (e.g. €195 for an underage player in Cuala this year. €25 for an underage player in my own club in rural Co. Wexford). Also, I think it's unfair to use words like "alien sports" and "dinosaur".
But anyway, I've no doubt that the camogie and ladies football wings of those clubs see major benefits from operating that way. But still wondering what benefits the men's/boys' hurling & football wings of those clubs now enjoy, that they didn't have before the clubs began operating this way?" Pikeman, I think the problem a lot of clubs have is that if they are not looking for any, they won't find them. Every club has limited resources however those resources are wasted if they are split across three different structures when it could be one. It doesn't mean that one person now takes on the work of three but rather you need to find the right structure that would run the one club. When you see companies merge there is always talk of cost saving but not that they will shut down all of the administration of one company. Having everyone pulling in the one direction and behind everything is a massive benefit, there is one common committee where any disagreements get argued out rather than in public or in bars. Fundraising is centeralised which is a massive benefit as nobody wants three different people coming to you for three different events, all that happens is that neither has the scale to be able to make them worthwhile so there is a lot of wasted effort. It cannot be just a merger for the sake of it - you have to think about how the structures are going to work to benefit the combined club. Unfortunately there are still a lot in the GAA that think that the resources are theirs
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 08/08/2023 12:24:49
2499506
Link
0
|
|
Replying To zinny: "Pikeman, I think the problem a lot of clubs have is that if they are not looking for any, they won't find them. Every club has limited resources however those resources are wasted if they are split across three different structures when it could be one. It doesn't mean that one person now takes on the work of three but rather you need to find the right structure that would run the one club. When you see companies merge there is always talk of cost saving but not that they will shut down all of the administration of one company. Having everyone pulling in the one direction and behind everything is a massive benefit, there is one common committee where any disagreements get argued out rather than in public or in bars. Fundraising is centeralised which is a massive benefit as nobody wants three different people coming to you for three different events, all that happens is that neither has the scale to be able to make them worthwhile so there is a lot of wasted effort. It cannot be just a merger for the sake of it - you have to think about how the structures are going to work to benefit the combined club. Unfortunately there are still a lot in the GAA that think that the resources are theirs" Thanks for the detailed reply, but again, I think you're maybe talking more about overall benefits of integration rather than benefits specific to the GAA.
Seems closest to it is a potential benefit if Camogie and LGFA wings of the operation commit fully to the sort of fundraising and admin that they may not have fully committed to up to this point. Could give examples from my own club or a few neighbouring ones that I know of - e.g. I know one club that's had over €500,000 of developments in the past five years or so, but where the camogie club didn't run even a single fundraiser towards it, on the grounds that "anything we bring in, we need to keep so we can cover our own running costs". Another example is Wexford Camogie's ongoing reluctance to commit to contributing proportionally to the development and maintenance of the Centre of Excellence, despite how they expect to be able to use it as desired.
Anyway, would agree 100% with your second last statement - that all structures need to be fully thought through to see how they'll hopefully benefit all.
But would take issue with your last statement, because fact of the matter is that most resources are the GAA's, whether that be club grounds, county grounds, or the vast majority of revenue brought in. A different way of asking "what are the benefits for the GAA?" might be "if we (the GAA) are going to commit to sharing resources with you (Camogie/LGFA) to a far greater degree, what exactly are you going to commit to in return?"
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2262 - 08/08/2023 14:46:39
2499547
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks for the detailed reply, but again, I think you're maybe talking more about overall benefits of integration rather than benefits specific to the GAA.
Seems closest to it is a potential benefit if Camogie and LGFA wings of the operation commit fully to the sort of fundraising and admin that they may not have fully committed to up to this point. Could give examples from my own club or a few neighbouring ones that I know of - e.g. I know one club that's had over €500,000 of developments in the past five years or so, but where the camogie club didn't run even a single fundraiser towards it, on the grounds that "anything we bring in, we need to keep so we can cover our own running costs". Another example is Wexford Camogie's ongoing reluctance to commit to contributing proportionally to the development and maintenance of the Centre of Excellence, despite how they expect to be able to use it as desired.
Anyway, would agree 100% with your second last statement - that all structures need to be fully thought through to see how they'll hopefully benefit all.
But would take issue with your last statement, because fact of the matter is that most resources are the GAA's, whether that be club grounds, county grounds, or the vast majority of revenue brought in. A different way of asking "what are the benefits for the GAA?" might be "if we (the GAA) are going to commit to sharing resources with you (Camogie/LGFA) to a far greater degree, what exactly are you going to commit to in return?"" It is probably manageable at club level where as arock and others have said, there is informal integration and sharing of resources anyway. That happens organically and does not need someone making it obligatory. So i don't see what extra the amalgamation makes.
The national scenario is somewhat different, because there are conflicting interests much more so than at club level where they can be managed between people who know one another..
Will the women's football or camogie rep from one of the weaker counties now have a vote on determining the senior inter county championships? Bad enough that hurling has been afflicted by poor decisions made by counties who barely bother with the game. Certainly doesn't need this added burden.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2663 - 08/08/2023 15:21:53
2499557
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks for the detailed reply, but again, I think you're maybe talking more about overall benefits of integration rather than benefits specific to the GAA.
Seems closest to it is a potential benefit if Camogie and LGFA wings of the operation commit fully to the sort of fundraising and admin that they may not have fully committed to up to this point. Could give examples from my own club or a few neighbouring ones that I know of - e.g. I know one club that's had over €500,000 of developments in the past five years or so, but where the camogie club didn't run even a single fundraiser towards it, on the grounds that "anything we bring in, we need to keep so we can cover our own running costs". Another example is Wexford Camogie's ongoing reluctance to commit to contributing proportionally to the development and maintenance of the Centre of Excellence, despite how they expect to be able to use it as desired.
Anyway, would agree 100% with your second last statement - that all structures need to be fully thought through to see how they'll hopefully benefit all.
But would take issue with your last statement, because fact of the matter is that most resources are the GAA's, whether that be club grounds, county grounds, or the vast majority of revenue brought in. A different way of asking "what are the benefits for the GAA?" might be "if we (the GAA) are going to commit to sharing resources with you (Camogie/LGFA) to a far greater degree, what exactly are you going to commit to in return?"" Surely all those reasons are reasons for there being 1 GAA organisation for women and men Pikeman?
My eldest daughter turned 13 this year. She was born blind in one eye so my wife wouldn't let her play contact ball sports like her 3 younger siblings. On account of her age she is no longer allowed to be a member of the GAA on our family membership, even as a non playing member, and even though she goes to more club and county games than many who are members.
If there was one organisation there would be no need to argue who is contributing what to whatever project or club, as we would all be equal members.
And as regards to the question of your workload etc in our under 12 teams the female mentor has done far more work with the team than I have, our adult teams Physio is female, and many of our Coiste na Nog officers currently and in the recent past are women also, as are the current club secretary and outgoing treasurer. Im not implying that you are sexist btw Pikeman but women have made, and are still making, an enormous contribution to the GAA, and likely that contribution will only increase if there comes to be just one GAA for everyone.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 08/08/2023 15:36:44
2499565
Link
0
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks for the detailed reply, but again, I think you're maybe talking more about overall benefits of integration rather than benefits specific to the GAA.
Seems closest to it is a potential benefit if Camogie and LGFA wings of the operation commit fully to the sort of fundraising and admin that they may not have fully committed to up to this point. Could give examples from my own club or a few neighbouring ones that I know of - e.g. I know one club that's had over €500,000 of developments in the past five years or so, but where the camogie club didn't run even a single fundraiser towards it, on the grounds that "anything we bring in, we need to keep so we can cover our own running costs". Another example is Wexford Camogie's ongoing reluctance to commit to contributing proportionally to the development and maintenance of the Centre of Excellence, despite how they expect to be able to use it as desired.
Anyway, would agree 100% with your second last statement - that all structures need to be fully thought through to see how they'll hopefully benefit all.
But would take issue with your last statement, because fact of the matter is that most resources are the GAA's, whether that be club grounds, county grounds, or the vast majority of revenue brought in. A different way of asking "what are the benefits for the GAA?" might be "if we (the GAA) are going to commit to sharing resources with you (Camogie/LGFA) to a far greater degree, what exactly are you going to commit to in return?"" It is probably manageable at club level where as arock and others have said, there is informal integration and sharing of resources anyway. That happens organically and does not need someone making it obligatory. So i don't see what extra the amalgamation makes. The national scenario is somewhat different, because there are conflicting interests much more so than at club level where they can be managed between people who know one another.. Will the women's football or camogie rep from one of the weaker counties now have a vote on determining the senior inter county championships? Bad enough that hurling has been afflicted by poor decisions made by counties who barely bother with the game. Certainly doesn't need this added burden."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 08/08/2023 15:52:15
2499574
Link
0
|
|
This is probably the single biggest challenge the GAA has ever had on its hands ever.
There is absolutely no doubt that integration ( and by that I mean full integration) is the only fair way forward.
For sure this process is fraught with difficult, as inherent in it is an fair and equal distribution of access to facilities and funding. Funding is the big thing. Revenue generation in terms of player membership , fundraising, gate receipts and sponsorship is heavily weighted towards the men's game. Expenditure and facility access is accordingly biased in a similar manner.
So here's the big thing . The pie is only so big . So if one group, who are getting the lion's share of the current pie, is now going to have to live with a more balanced share of the new pie ( which realistically cant be much bigger than the old one) , then they will lose out.
So the sooner the men's groups starts to realise that they are going to lose out in certain ways , in order to progress towards a much better and fairer organisation, the better.
Having said the ladies groups also need to realise that there may be areas where everything will not be split down the middle e.g. in many clubs there is a lot more male playing members than female and I know of several clubs in Galway with 3 or more adult men's football teams and only 1 ( and in some cases 2 ) adult ladies football team.
As a result they will need proportionate access to facilities and funding.
Its not easy , it needs to be planned right, but we cant delay it any more.
anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 846 - 08/08/2023 17:01:50
2499593
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "Thanks for the detailed reply, but again, I think you're maybe talking more about overall benefits of integration rather than benefits specific to the GAA.
Seems closest to it is a potential benefit if Camogie and LGFA wings of the operation commit fully to the sort of fundraising and admin that they may not have fully committed to up to this point. Could give examples from my own club or a few neighbouring ones that I know of - e.g. I know one club that's had over €500,000 of developments in the past five years or so, but where the camogie club didn't run even a single fundraiser towards it, on the grounds that "anything we bring in, we need to keep so we can cover our own running costs". Another example is Wexford Camogie's ongoing reluctance to commit to contributing proportionally to the development and maintenance of the Centre of Excellence, despite how they expect to be able to use it as desired.
Anyway, would agree 100% with your second last statement - that all structures need to be fully thought through to see how they'll hopefully benefit all.
But would take issue with your last statement, because fact of the matter is that most resources are the GAA's, whether that be club grounds, county grounds, or the vast majority of revenue brought in. A different way of asking "what are the benefits for the GAA?" might be "if we (the GAA) are going to commit to sharing resources with you (Camogie/LGFA) to a far greater degree, what exactly are you going to commit to in return?"" What I am getting at in the last statement is more along the lines of what Viking was talking about is the fact that without women the GAA wouldn't be where it is either. Its not just the women volunteers in the GAA but its the same issue with the recognition of the importance that the role that women played in the home. When the men were out building the GAA clubs who was doing the work at home? looking after the kids etc. In a legal sense the grounds are vested in the GAA club but the mothers of those sons and daughters playing even if they are never in the field made as much as a contribution to where the GAA club is today.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 08/08/2023 19:02:28
2499610
Link
1
|
|
@Viking 66 - several points in reply here. First is that I'm almost at pains to point out at this stage that my question was not "should integration happen?" or "how would integration work?", and was instead "what actual benefit(s) would integration bring to the GAA"?
On the second - sorry to learn that about your daughter. For what it's worth, I came very close to losing an eye myself in a childhood accident. Even still, I sometimes close that eye for a few minutes and think about what life might have been like.
But on the membership thing - every girl and woman of any age is already entitled to be a non-playing member of the GAA, just as any boy or man can be a non-playing member of GAA or either of the two women's associations. If your club's current family membership option doesn't include that, then it's open to the club to change that itself, by way of a vote at AGM or whatever. It doesn't require integration, a change in rule, or a single membership system to allow it to happen.
Also, equal membership does not mean equal effort or commitment. Every club has some very hard-working members, and some who just plod along. In the example I gave above, for instance - if members coming in from the camogie wing continued to just sit back when it came to development projects, on the grounds that "we never did anything in this regard before and look what they achieved anyway, so why do we need to get involved now?", then really nothing changes at all.
Finally, I've always thought that the argument "women contribute greatly to the GAA, so the GAA should put more back into the women's games" is a spurious one, for two main reasons:
1 - it suggests that women in the GAA aren't there out of genuine interest in or dedication to the GAA, and are instead just working in the hope of getting something back for "the sisterhood", and
2 - you never hear the opposite argument, i.e. "men contribute greatly to the Camogie Association and LGFA in terms of team management, coaching, and administration, so the women's organisations should put more back into the men's".
Maybe it's because they have little or nothing to give, which brings me full circle back to the original question......
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2262 - 08/08/2023 22:22:19
2499630
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking 66 - several points in reply here. First is that I'm almost at pains to point out at this stage that my question was not "should integration happen?" or "how would integration work?", and was instead "what actual benefit(s) would integration bring to the GAA"?
On the second - sorry to learn that about your daughter. For what it's worth, I came very close to losing an eye myself in a childhood accident. Even still, I sometimes close that eye for a few minutes and think about what life might have been like.
But on the membership thing - every girl and woman of any age is already entitled to be a non-playing member of the GAA, just as any boy or man can be a non-playing member of GAA or either of the two women's associations. If your club's current family membership option doesn't include that, then it's open to the club to change that itself, by way of a vote at AGM or whatever. It doesn't require integration, a change in rule, or a single membership system to allow it to happen.
Also, equal membership does not mean equal effort or commitment. Every club has some very hard-working members, and some who just plod along. In the example I gave above, for instance - if members coming in from the camogie wing continued to just sit back when it came to development projects, on the grounds that "we never did anything in this regard before and look what they achieved anyway, so why do we need to get involved now?", then really nothing changes at all.
Finally, I've always thought that the argument "women contribute greatly to the GAA, so the GAA should put more back into the women's games" is a spurious one, for two main reasons:
1 - it suggests that women in the GAA aren't there out of genuine interest in or dedication to the GAA, and are instead just working in the hope of getting something back for "the sisterhood", and
2 - you never hear the opposite argument, i.e. "men contribute greatly to the Camogie Association and LGFA in terms of team management, coaching, and administration, so the women's organisations should put more back into the men's".
Maybe it's because they have little or nothing to give, which brings me full circle back to the original question......" I can agree with little difficulty about 90% of what you write here but the last paragraph doesnt read right or sit with me at all. By asking implies you ultimately believe women have really little to offer an all male GAA setup, that is incredible. I cannot believe you meant it to read that way.
Again women contribute massively in the fully integrated clubs. These clubs have player reps (1 male 1 female) on club executives. They have double club memberships, twice as many volunteers. Each code has games committees made up of all sexes. Camogie and Ladies Football teams have a lot of male coaches and support staff. More fundraising oppirtunities. In fact you will find a great pool of dedicated cross community volunteers etc. At underage you will find more families involved its win/win. In fact young girls tend to be very social and pull in friends etc into GAA clubs. Embrace it.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4903 - 10/08/2023 18:54:36
2499981
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking 66 - several points in reply here. First is that I'm almost at pains to point out at this stage that my question was not "should integration happen?" or "how would integration work?", and was instead "what actual benefit(s) would integration bring to the GAA"?
On the second - sorry to learn that about your daughter. For what it's worth, I came very close to losing an eye myself in a childhood accident. Even still, I sometimes close that eye for a few minutes and think about what life might have been like.
But on the membership thing - every girl and woman of any age is already entitled to be a non-playing member of the GAA, just as any boy or man can be a non-playing member of GAA or either of the two women's associations. If your club's current family membership option doesn't include that, then it's open to the club to change that itself, by way of a vote at AGM or whatever. It doesn't require integration, a change in rule, or a single membership system to allow it to happen.
Also, equal membership does not mean equal effort or commitment. Every club has some very hard-working members, and some who just plod along. In the example I gave above, for instance - if members coming in from the camogie wing continued to just sit back when it came to development projects, on the grounds that "we never did anything in this regard before and look what they achieved anyway, so why do we need to get involved now?", then really nothing changes at all.
Finally, I've always thought that the argument "women contribute greatly to the GAA, so the GAA should put more back into the women's games" is a spurious one, for two main reasons:
1 - it suggests that women in the GAA aren't there out of genuine interest in or dedication to the GAA, and are instead just working in the hope of getting something back for "the sisterhood", and
2 - you never hear the opposite argument, i.e. "men contribute greatly to the Camogie Association and LGFA in terms of team management, coaching, and administration, so the women's organisations should put more back into the men's".
Maybe it's because they have little or nothing to give, which brings me full circle back to the original question......" We are looking at the thing from 2 different standpoints Pikeman. You are wondering what current officers of the Camogie Association and LGFA will contribute to the new organisation. I'm looking at it that being as those 2 organisations will cease to exist it really doesn't matter. The new integrated organisation will have its own officers and volunteers, no doubt including many former ones from all 3 organisations, who should all pull in the direction of the new organisation. I'm sure there will be many good administrators from all 3 organisations who will do this.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 11/08/2023 10:27:12
2500019
Link
0
|
|
Replying To BarneyGrant: "Got mine during week. I said that I thought that the LGFA and camogs had forgotten why they had set up independently in first place. Games have thrived under them. Separate but equal sometimes works!
Also said that LGFA has failed to defend integrity of women's football against those attempting to have biological males involved, and that I would fear that this may become a Trojan horse within GAA as a whole after integration." Yeah the biggest issue facing integration and the GAA as a whole is an imported culture war about a tiny minority of people
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12133 - 11/08/2023 11:50:30
2500036
Link
1
|
|
Replying To arock: "I can agree with little difficulty about 90% of what you write here but the last paragraph doesnt read right or sit with me at all. By asking implies you ultimately believe women have really little to offer an all male GAA setup, that is incredible. I cannot believe you meant it to read that way.
Again women contribute massively in the fully integrated clubs. These clubs have player reps (1 male 1 female) on club executives. They have double club memberships, twice as many volunteers. Each code has games committees made up of all sexes. Camogie and Ladies Football teams have a lot of male coaches and support staff. More fundraising oppirtunities. In fact you will find a great pool of dedicated cross community volunteers etc. At underage you will find more families involved its win/win. In fact young girls tend to be very social and pull in friends etc into GAA clubs. Embrace it." That is ABSOLUTELY not what I meant at all, and yes, you've completely misread it. I am absolutely not suggesting that women have nothing to contribute to the GAA, and I of course recognise the great contribution that women have made over the years and continue to make.
So, to spell things out more clearly and emphasise that the question is not along sexist or misogynist lines:
What added expertise or benefit can the women and men who currently contribute only to the Camogie Association and/or LGFA bring to the GAA after integration, in return for the added expertise and benefits they would get from the women and men who currently contribute only to the GAA?
I think it's a valid question because I think it's generally accepted that the GAA is currently the best run of the three organisations, and it's definitely the best funded.
So, with the men and women currently only involved with Camogie Association and/or LGFA likely to see benefits such as increased funding for women's inter-county teams, and even something as apparently simple as learning how to better coordinate fixtures across two codes, what can they bring in return?
Okay, providing some of the bodies needed for the work in the new association would be a benefit over them sitting back and thinking "that's grand, what was the GAA end of things will look after everything for us now". But how can these bodies improve the standard of this work above the standard already achieved by the GAA, given that generally speaking, they're operating below this standard at the moment?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2262 - 11/08/2023 14:20:57
2500079
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "That is ABSOLUTELY not what I meant at all, and yes, you've completely misread it. I am absolutely not suggesting that women have nothing to contribute to the GAA, and I of course recognise the great contribution that women have made over the years and continue to make.
So, to spell things out more clearly and emphasise that the question is not along sexist or misogynist lines:
What added expertise or benefit can the women and men who currently contribute only to the Camogie Association and/or LGFA bring to the GAA after integration, in return for the added expertise and benefits they would get from the women and men who currently contribute only to the GAA?
I think it's a valid question because I think it's generally accepted that the GAA is currently the best run of the three organisations, and it's definitely the best funded.
So, with the men and women currently only involved with Camogie Association and/or LGFA likely to see benefits such as increased funding for women's inter-county teams, and even something as apparently simple as learning how to better coordinate fixtures across two codes, what can they bring in return?
Okay, providing some of the bodies needed for the work in the new association would be a benefit over them sitting back and thinking "that's grand, what was the GAA end of things will look after everything for us now". But how can these bodies improve the standard of this work above the standard already achieved by the GAA, given that generally speaking, they're operating below this standard at the moment?" It's not about improving the "standard of work". The best people should get the jobs concerned. Same as in any other organisation. There will be extra shoulders to the wheel. There should be a good bit of streamlining possible too. It's really not about improving the running of the GAA. It's the 21st Century. The current set up is really 19th Century.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 11/08/2023 16:30:39
2500102
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "That is ABSOLUTELY not what I meant at all, and yes, you've completely misread it. I am absolutely not suggesting that women have nothing to contribute to the GAA, and I of course recognise the great contribution that women have made over the years and continue to make.
So, to spell things out more clearly and emphasise that the question is not along sexist or misogynist lines:
What added expertise or benefit can the women and men who currently contribute only to the Camogie Association and/or LGFA bring to the GAA after integration, in return for the added expertise and benefits they would get from the women and men who currently contribute only to the GAA?
I think it's a valid question because I think it's generally accepted that the GAA is currently the best run of the three organisations, and it's definitely the best funded.
So, with the men and women currently only involved with Camogie Association and/or LGFA likely to see benefits such as increased funding for women's inter-county teams, and even something as apparently simple as learning how to better coordinate fixtures across two codes, what can they bring in return?
Okay, providing some of the bodies needed for the work in the new association would be a benefit over them sitting back and thinking "that's grand, what was the GAA end of things will look after everything for us now". But how can these bodies improve the standard of this work above the standard already achieved by the GAA, given that generally speaking, they're operating below this standard at the moment?" It's not about improving the "standard of work". The best people should get the jobs concerned. Same as in any other organisation. There will be extra shoulders to the wheel. There should be a good bit of streamlining possible too. It's really not about improving the running of the GAA. It's the 21st Century. The current set up is really 19th Century."
Here is another reason for you and demonstrates how far behind the rest of sports the GAA is. Around the world GAA clubs are run as one with no difference between men and women. However when those clubs or boards go to look for government facilities or support that other sports organizations receive in their country they are asked a simple question - is your national body affiliated with the Olympic organization. The answer is no and the GAA will never be omitted to the Olympic movement simply because they do not represent men and women. As quite a few posters have pointed out there are plenty of examples to show that this work and will work to the benefit for all going forward.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 12/08/2023 13:32:08
2500188
Link
0
|
|
Empty terraces at the Intermediate camogie final in Clones. It shows you how little interest the public have in camogie. You would get a bigger crowd at an Ulster football quarter final game.
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 227 - 12/08/2023 14:13:32
2500193
Link
0
|
|
Replying To PattyONeill: "Empty terraces at the Intermediate camogie final in Clones. It shows you how little interest the public have in camogie. You would get a bigger crowd at an Ulster football quarter final game." Exactly. Lgfa and camogie reps will be looking for 50/50 shares of sponsorship funding, when the games barely sustain themselves. Double and triple header all Ireland finals in croke park might just about fill it but likely not.
Clubs will be forced to integrate, the main sponsors will be asked to increase funding- they'll not double it, why should they?..they'll likely donate 20-30% more, and then the ladies reps will kick up a fuss and scream inequality if they don't get 50% of the funding available. Que infighting, protests, volunteers throwing their hat at it and as usual the ones that shout longest and loudest will get their way.
We're importing US gender issues and being told to mix them into our ancient games. integration will be the best possible outcome for soccer and rugby in this country.
Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 152 - 12/08/2023 14:32:12
2500194
Link
1
|
|
Replying To PattyONeill: "Empty terraces at the Intermediate camogie final in Clones. It shows you how little interest the public have in camogie. You would get a bigger crowd at an Ulster football quarter final game." I prefer hurling but camogie has become a very unattractive game to watch for neutrals. I'd probably be more interested if Dublin were involved at a competitive level but it seems to have swapped athleticism and power for skill.
It's a fine balance but women's football seems to have stuck a better one, and hence its greater attraction for both players and spectators.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2663 - 12/08/2023 14:45:26
2500197
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Jjoniel79: "Exactly. Lgfa and camogie reps will be looking for 50/50 shares of sponsorship funding, when the games barely sustain themselves. Double and triple header all Ireland finals in croke park might just about fill it but likely not.
Clubs will be forced to integrate, the main sponsors will be asked to increase funding- they'll not double it, why should they?..they'll likely donate 20-30% more, and then the ladies reps will kick up a fuss and scream inequality if they don't get 50% of the funding available. Que infighting, protests, volunteers throwing their hat at it and as usual the ones that shout longest and loudest will get their way.
We're importing US gender issues and being told to mix them into our ancient games. integration will be the best possible outcome for soccer and rugby in this country." There won't be camogie and lgfa reps if it's properly integrated. Just GAA reps. As regards funding for county teams most counties have inequal funding for their hurling and football teams as it is. So nothing is likely to change there either.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12224 - 12/08/2023 16:24:08
2500206
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Breffni40: "Yeah the biggest issue facing integration and the GAA as a whole is an imported culture war about a tiny minority of people" The people who have imported this are those who want men to be on the same field as women and girls. You seem to think this is okay?
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2663 - 12/08/2023 16:38:57
2500207
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "There won't be camogie and lgfa reps if it's properly integrated. Just GAA reps. As regards funding for county teams most counties have inequal funding for their hurling and football teams as it is. So nothing is likely to change there either." Different story when genders are involved.
Jjoniel79 (Monaghan) - Posts: 152 - 12/08/2023 18:34:08
2500217
Link
0
|