National Forum

All Ireland Final 2023 - Dublin V Kerry

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Replying To avonali:  "Can I just express my admiration for a poster I consider as exceptional. He is insightful, honest and despite being bitterly disappointed at his county's loss last Sunday has retained his dignity and integrity throughout all his discussions since,
He is a civilising influence who is passionate yet tries to see both sides of very argument- a true sign of intelligence. I mean that genuinely.
You probably won't thank me Ciarrai Mick but I feel you deserve some acknowledgement for being a a brilliant poster here. Fair play and as you would say, you're a chap I'd love to have a few pints with.
Keep up the good fight.
The Kingdom will rise again,"
Yes fair play to Mick. He took his defeat like a man.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2308 - 05/08/2023 14:43:44    2499135

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Sure the cry babies are still whinging about 1983 haha

Dubs celebrate - "Look at thenm showing off"

Dubs win - "Look at the robots not caring"

Never change country boys.. yiz ALWAYS make it so much sweeter..

The same gombeen that gave out about Dublin players showing respect for the Bloody Sunday dead.. good aul Baire.."
Bloody Sunday? What are you on about?

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 05/08/2023 14:50:42    2499141

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Mick, here's a link with some great info about Kerry-Galway connections.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40924397.html

Galway had 3 Kerry men in 1942. They actually beat Kerry in the semifinal that year: Jackie Flavin Moyvane), Dunquin's Dan Kavanagh and South Kerry's Johnny Clifford.

Bobby Beggs was a Dub."
That's amazing Forever.Kerry had nine players so that played in the 42 final and Kerry were nt even playing. 6 Kerry players playing for Dublin including the captain Joe Fitzgerald and 3 Kerry players playing for Galway and then to confuse it all we had a Dublin player Bobby Beggs playing for Galway.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 05/08/2023 15:28:27    2499145

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Replying To endgame:  "Yes fair play to Mick. He took his defeat like a man."
I don't know about that Endgame.That defeat hurt but thank you all the same.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 05/08/2023 15:33:49    2499148

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To all dubs enjoy these days..we in limerick are not liked by a lot of other counties at moment same as ye..the more people don't like us the more I enjoy it..maybe these other counties should worry about themselves and get their own houses in order..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2413 - 05/08/2023 15:38:50    2499151

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The initial spur was to win a Dublin championship. Vincents were fortunate to have an unbelievable well of talent in Joey's school in Fairview in 40s and 50s during which they totally dominated underage football and hurling in the county. That then transferred to minor inter county, senior club and of course senior inter county.

As someone who prefers hurling, it can only be a source of sadness that at county level Heffo steered the club towards football. Could have been the other way around. They beat the Glen Rovers with Ring et al in club games which is an indication of what might have been."
It has definitely been a case of what might have been for Dublin Hurlers - and for a long time that way.

The amount of excellent hurlers gone to Football.

Dublin Hurling's loss has been Dublin Football's gain for sure.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 4070 - 05/08/2023 15:47:04    2499155

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Replying To Joxer:  "It's almost as though money can't buy you success while whingers like yourself seem to think that it can. Maybe we need more money. I'll get onto Tom Ryan on Mon and tell him that the Dubs need more funding for the stick game."
I was responding to an accusation of a loser mentality in my county hence my reference to Dublin's record in hurling. The only one ranting about money is you.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 05/08/2023 19:31:27    2499171

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Replying To sligo joe:  "For the Kerry Goal fitzsimmons stayed on Clifford's left boot to prevent David from looping out and pointing with his left. If, as he did, Clifford puts in a low pass with his right it's up to the defenders inside to deal with it. In this case excellent defence by Mick.
Interesting stat, in his last 6 "knock-out" championship games David has scored 1-14 from play, average less than 3pts a game. What was missing on Sunday was his usual couple of marks that he often catches on his own in space. He was never let wander into these spaces on Sunday. Clifford is always going to win possessions, marking him from in front is not an option.
Goalies excellent but shaded by Cluxton(assisted by Howard) with Ryan losing 3 restarts."
Hi Sligo while you are correct with your statement you say what was missing Sunday was marks.True but no high ball was given into him for his high fielding marks which he is brilliant at.On Marks you failed to mention that along with that 1-14 from play he also scored from 7 marks and set up two goals with two sublime passes especially the pass vTyrone.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 05/08/2023 22:32:47    2499194

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Replying To baire:  "I was responding to an accusation of a loser mentality in my county hence my reference to Dublin's record in hurling. The only one ranting about money is you."
I'm not ranting about money. I'm just busting the myth about it winning trophies.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 05/08/2023 23:33:17    2499202

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "My point was Dublin fans were booing Gough but Gough did nt do them any harm. I'm glad Jamsie was nt sent off and I'm delighted for James himself he got to lift Sam as captain (was just hoping it was nt v us). Outside if Kerry I can't think of any player I admire more than James Mccarthy. As for Clerkin and Silke well they just giving their opinion."
Am i right in saying the Clifford's were born in Dublin Mick.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4466 - 06/08/2023 10:17:50    2499210

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Hi Sligo while you are correct with your statement you say what was missing Sunday was marks.True but no high ball was given into him for his high fielding marks which he is brilliant at.On Marks you failed to mention that along with that 1-14 from play he also scored from 7 marks and set up two goals with two sublime passes especially the pass vTyrone."
I think if other counties watch back the game, they will get hints on how to manage Clifford. It wasn't just about marking him, it was also about cutting off the supply line, the Dublin team flooded the flank at certain times in spaces and made any available high ball low percentage. Fitzy did a job on Clifford, but the rest of the team did a job on the supply line.

The mark is a big part of his game.

There is a cheat code there for other counties in my opinion.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4466 - 06/08/2023 10:58:59    2499212

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think if other counties watch back the game, they will get hints on how to manage Clifford. It wasn't just about marking him, it was also about cutting off the supply line, the Dublin team flooded the flank at certain times in spaces and made any available high ball low percentage. Fitzy did a job on Clifford, but the rest of the team did a job on the supply line.

The mark is a big part of his game.

There is a cheat code there for other counties in my opinion."
The cliche is that it was the same for both teams but I do think that the wet day last Sunday did not favour David Clifford.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2308 - 06/08/2023 11:18:47    2499218

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Replying To endgame:  "The cliche is that it was the same for both teams but I do think that the wet day last Sunday did not favour David Clifford."
Might be a variable alight a chara, it wasn't that wet really, bit greasy but you have to play in it and worse. The last time i remember watching him being so off kilter was the the Munster semi in PUC when Cork knocked them out in 2020, that was another wet rotten day so there could be something in his not liking the dirty day.

I think its knocking edges of his game really, i think he likes long direct ball he can win can get ou tin front of his marker, where he can turn and make an angle. He doesn't like getting it congested areas facing a set up. He supplements that with the mark in many cases when he can get it without a bounce.

I think the trick with him, is trying to knock him off kilter as much as you can, have a second man ready to step on him, but key is stopping the easy long ball in to him from deep positions or turning that ball in to high risk low percentage ball - we did really well on that and forcing Kerry to play through the lines.

As the years go by, (next year is 7th season) you learn a little bit more of how to deconstruct his game and take edges off.

Think other counties could look at how what we did with the supply line last week and isolated him a bit.

If i was Kerry next season, id be looking and that and coming up with a counter.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4466 - 06/08/2023 11:39:34    2499221

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Replying To Joxer:  "I'm not ranting about money. I'm just busting the myth about it winning trophies."
But it's not a myth. How can it be??

The money started pouring into Dublin GAA in 2004.

Since then they've dominated Leinster like never before, caught up with Kerry, Tyrone, etc. and stayed ahead of them, won an unprecedented 6 in a row, changed pretty much their entire squad (bar the 3 9-time winners) and still stayed at the top.

Take Kerry, the next best, in contrast and look how long their transition took. 8 years between the last win of the Gooch, Donaghy, O'Sheas team and the first of Clifford's.

Money has got Dublin to where they are, kept them there, and will continue to keep them there indefinitely.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 06/08/2023 15:46:37    2499253

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Am i right in saying the Clifford's were born in Dublin Mick."
Ah "leave er out" Username ha ha!. No! Clifford was born in Kerry but only by the grace of God. Story goes his parents were going to move to Dublin before he was born ré employment but then his Dad got offered a job at home T. G. Pity Fentons Dad did nt stay at home but yes in different circumstances Clifford would ve been a Dub.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 06/08/2023 15:51:25    2499255

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think if other counties watch back the game, they will get hints on how to manage Clifford. It wasn't just about marking him, it was also about cutting off the supply line, the Dublin team flooded the flank at certain times in spaces and made any available high ball low percentage. Fitzy did a job on Clifford, but the rest of the team did a job on the supply line.

The mark is a big part of his game.

There is a cheat code there for other counties in my opinion."
Nail on head. To stop the supply is the aim with Clifford. I honestly don't think he is markable one on one. A few players that really did well on him were destroyed next time they met. Even the last day while his shooting was askew he was directly involved in 1-5 of Kerry s scores. Not once was a high ball kicked into him ré mark (and he can jump some height). Cut the supply is the aim. Double treble marking is not the answer. Cork doubled and trebled marked him in Killarney 2 years ago and kept him scoreless from play but left the defense so open Kerry beat Cork by over 20 points. Yes User you are correct in blocking the supply but ssssh and don't tell anyone else.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 06/08/2023 15:57:47    2499257

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Might be a variable alight a chara, it wasn't that wet really, bit greasy but you have to play in it and worse. The last time i remember watching him being so off kilter was the the Munster semi in PUC when Cork knocked them out in 2020, that was another wet rotten day so there could be something in his not liking the dirty day.

I think its knocking edges of his game really, i think he likes long direct ball he can win can get ou tin front of his marker, where he can turn and make an angle. He doesn't like getting it congested areas facing a set up. He supplements that with the mark in many cases when he can get it without a bounce.

I think the trick with him, is trying to knock him off kilter as much as you can, have a second man ready to step on him, but key is stopping the easy long ball in to him from deep positions or turning that ball in to high risk low percentage ball - we did really well on that and forcing Kerry to play through the lines.

As the years go by, (next year is 7th season) you learn a little bit more of how to deconstruct his game and take edges off.

Think other counties could look at how what we did with the supply line last week and isolated him a bit.

If i was Kerry next season, id be looking and that and coming up with a counter."
Again you are right in 2020 Clifford was off colour too in horrendous conditions but still kicked a few great scores including one monster point. Clifford can score points too from very long range and takes on very low percentage shots (although has scored alot of them). Because of his shooting a windy day upsets him more than rain but he has the ability to run and take on players too. Because of Dublins blanket even when he d skip by Fitzsimmons there sometimes was a wall in front. As you said blocking the supply is the answer.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 06/08/2023 16:04:12    2499258

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A couple of the lads on here acting as if Dublin are the only team who thought about how to stop Clifford and now it will be copied. Lads enjoy the win but jaysus don't be talking mince. Sure he was even quieter against Tyrone. If he has the shooting boots on he would have finished with 8 or 9 from play. That's the fine margins we are talking about. He isn't going to shoot the lights out everyday. Talk about over analysis.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8208 - 06/08/2023 16:37:57    2499259

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Again you are right in 2020 Clifford was off colour too in horrendous conditions but still kicked a few great scores including one monster point. Clifford can score points too from very long range and takes on very low percentage shots (although has scored alot of them). Because of his shooting a windy day upsets him more than rain but he has the ability to run and take on players too. Because of Dublins blanket even when he d skip by Fitzsimmons there sometimes was a wall in front. As you said blocking the supply is the answer."
His preference is to run the outside line down the right wing fake to shoot with his right, check back inside and swing a point with his left. That''s his trademark and that's exactly what he did with his first point on Sun. In the second half he was out on the left wing a lot. For his second point he cut inside on his right foot, carried into low percentage territory and swung one over. Out of his misses, two were poor shot selections, a left footed shot from distance off left foot from the left wing. Very difficult to execute and he had space but missed. Similarly he missed one straight into Clucko's hands with poor selection. For two misses Fitzy was at close quarters putting him under pressure and he missed. Interesting stat I heard is that about 30% of all Kerry scores come from Clifford and about 55% of all Kerry scores come from Clifford and O'Shea. Conditions didn't help him on Sun, but a combination of poor shot selection and Dublin pressure did him no favours.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 06/08/2023 16:47:22    2499261

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Replying To Joxer:  "His preference is to run the outside line down the right wing fake to shoot with his right, check back inside and swing a point with his left. That''s his trademark and that's exactly what he did with his first point on Sun. In the second half he was out on the left wing a lot. For his second point he cut inside on his right foot, carried into low percentage territory and swung one over. Out of his misses, two were poor shot selections, a left footed shot from distance off left foot from the left wing. Very difficult to execute and he had space but missed. Similarly he missed one straight into Clucko's hands with poor selection. For two misses Fitzy was at close quarters putting him under pressure and he missed. Interesting stat I heard is that about 30% of all Kerry scores come from Clifford and about 55% of all Kerry scores come from Clifford and O'Shea. Conditions didn't help him on Sun, but a combination of poor shot selection and Dublin pressure did him no favours."
Fairly spot on post but as I say a few times it was poor shooting more than pressure tbh. Also he did nt get alot of possession but that was more to do with his channel being clogged up. As I said before he won every single ball v Fitz and went by him but his shooting was askew. On his shot selection Clifford often takes on outrageous attempts and seriously low percentage shots. It used to drive me crazy but he is the player that can score them.i heard Paddy Andrews on radio last year saying under Gavin they were not allowed shoot outside the scoring zone bar two players - Mannion and Connolly cos they had it in their locker. Clifford scored a point v Tyrone in Omagh this year that had the Tyrone fans clapping
I don't think any other player would even take it on. He scored one v Cork well behind the 45.He is a unique talent that does nt always take the right option but he oozes class and that's why when he plays so many neutrals travel to watch hi even in club games. Like Joe Canning before him he is the codes poster boy and brilliant with all the young kids from all over and we lucky to have him.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 06/08/2023 17:58:52    2499268

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