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Wexford Club Hurling Championships 2023

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yeah, the massive problem with divisional teams would be if you had Intermediate & Intermediate A clubs feeding into them, then when exactly would you play those championships in order to have teams qualified for Leinster?

Can't play them during the inter-county season because at least some clubs in those grades would have inter-county players.

You could confine the divisional teams to picking from Junior clubs downwards....but if the idea is to expose lads to a higher standard of play, then consider a promising player who's with a club that's consistently 9th, 10th or 11th best in Intermediate 'A'. He'd actually be better off if the club was relegated!

There are also some other practical difficulties with divisional teams - i.e. who funds them, who manages them, and even what jerseys they play in. All things that would have to be worked out before they actually could compete."
How many clubs would be happy to have their players playing with a district on a Saturday and with their club on a Sunday?

Or worse, miss a club match because they got a niggle the day before in the district match?

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 15/11/2023 15:32:36    2513195

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yeah, the massive problem with divisional teams would be if you had Intermediate & Intermediate A clubs feeding into them, then when exactly would you play those championships in order to have teams qualified for Leinster?

Can't play them during the inter-county season because at least some clubs in those grades would have inter-county players.

You could confine the divisional teams to picking from Junior clubs downwards....but if the idea is to expose lads to a higher standard of play, then consider a promising player who's with a club that's consistently 9th, 10th or 11th best in Intermediate 'A'. He'd actually be better off if the club was relegated!

There are also some other practical difficulties with divisional teams - i.e. who funds them, who manages them, and even what jerseys they play in. All things that would have to be worked out before they actually could compete."
I was counting Intermediate A as Junior. May as well call a spade a spade. Well tbh I'd still do away with it altogether and go back to the system we had for decades. Senior, Intermediate, and Junior. There aren't that many intercounty lads playing at that level. If the Intermediate A/Junior championships were played during the Intercounty season maybe those few players could get released back to their clubs for games? And a bit of training also?
And then those clubs could play their League games without Divisional players while the Senior and Intermediate club championships were on.
Another bonus would be young players could play championship hurling and football on their clubs 2nd and 3rd teams earlier in the year, staking a claim for places on their 1st teams later in the year. And players would be playing for places on Divisional teams also. More meaningful games throughout the year. It might help with player retention. And then you might not need the club u21 grade. It would ease pressure on fixtures committees and referees also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 15/11/2023 15:51:49    2513199

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What about this?

12 teams all in the one group.

4 rounds of group games. Open draw every Sunday night to see who you play next.

A few rules for the draw.
Pot 1
4 semi finalists previous year (or link two places for league winners if you want to go that route and just seed the finalists)
Pot 2
Everyone else.

Teams in Pot 2 cannot be drawn against a Pot 1 team 2 weeks in a row.

After 4 rounds of games, you have your full league table. Qfs are 1v8 2v7 etc etc.

Takes 1 week less than current Championship. So a 2 week saving overall across both codes.

ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 15/11/2023 16:14:08    2513205

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "I think divisional teams couldn't work in Wexford, to many dual players, looking at where they operate in Ireland, Kerry 1st very little hurling outside of Tralee/Listowel direction. Cork- very little football in east cork and hurling the poorer relation in West Cork."
Agreed and no need for them either.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 15/11/2023 17:29:01    2513222

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Replying To Viking66:  "I was counting Intermediate A as Junior. May as well call a spade a spade. Well tbh I'd still do away with it altogether and go back to the system we had for decades. Senior, Intermediate, and Junior. There aren't that many intercounty lads playing at that level. If the Intermediate A/Junior championships were played during the Intercounty season maybe those few players could get released back to their clubs for games? And a bit of training also?
And then those clubs could play their League games without Divisional players while the Senior and Intermediate club championships were on.
Another bonus would be young players could play championship hurling and football on their clubs 2nd and 3rd teams earlier in the year, staking a claim for places on their 1st teams later in the year. And players would be playing for places on Divisional teams also. More meaningful games throughout the year. It might help with player retention. And then you might not need the club u21 grade. It would ease pressure on fixtures committees and referees also."
The other "bonus" you mention towards the end could actually end up a problem as well.

Say a club has senior and junior teams. A young lad coming through who's genuinely senior standard might normally only play one junior match or maybe even none at all before claiming his place on the senior team. But by running the entire junior championship first, he'd be entitled to play in the whole thing, despite being a "senior" player.

Would be a bit like the Cian Byrne (Fethard) thing of a couple of years ago, when we had the rule that somebody in his first year out of U17 could go up and down between the grades until the quarter-final stages.

Fethard were senior at the time, and he was already one of their stars. But they didn't make it to the quarter-finals - instead, they lost out at preliminary quarter-final stage (if I recall correctly, it was a very exciting and high-scoring match against Ferns). And because they didn't make it to the senior quarter-finals, he was free to drop down to play Junior B for the rest of the year, where he absolutely lorded it over other "genuine" Junior B players from other clubs.

The rule was changed for the following year!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2257 - 15/11/2023 17:35:24    2513223

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Replying To Viking66:  "We haven't won an AI in hurling at any grade in 27 years. And there was a 28 year gap to the one before. Current championship structure has nothing to do with that."
At least we were somewhat compeditive , now we are a no show

fathermurphy (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 15/11/2023 18:09:07    2513229

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "What was the excuse before the change in championship structures?"
No excuse, hurling has no future in the county with the current structures and hurling will just get worse, the hurling championship is played off in only six weeks, soccer will benefit here on ridicolous decions , Change it now before it gets too late

fathermurphy (Wexford) - Posts: 315 - 15/11/2023 18:31:27    2513232

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Replying To ontheball247:  "What about this?

12 teams all in the one group.

4 rounds of group games. Open draw every Sunday night to see who you play next.

A few rules for the draw.
Pot 1
4 semi finalists previous year (or link two places for league winners if you want to go that route and just seed the finalists)
Pot 2
Everyone else.

Teams in Pot 2 cannot be drawn against a Pot 1 team 2 weeks in a row.

After 4 rounds of games, you have your full league table. Qfs are 1v8 2v7 etc etc.

Takes 1 week less than current Championship. So a 2 week saving overall across both codes."
I think something like that operates in one of the Connacht or Ulster counties? Wouldn't be a fan of it myself though, as I think it's far too random. You can talk about "the luck of the draw", but you could end up with a very skewed schedule of who plays who.

For example, say it operated for the Liam McCarthy Cup. Based on this year's results, pots for next year would be:
Pot 1 - Limerick, Kilkenny, Galway, Clare
Post 2 - Wexford, Dublin, Antrim, Carlow, Tipperary, Cork, Waterford, and either Westmeath or Offaly (depending on whether you keep the relegated team, or bring up the Joe McDonagh runners-up).

Wexford could get Limerick, Galway, and any two of Tipp/Cork/Waterford.
Dublin could get Antrim, Carlow, Westmeath/Offaly, and just one of the Pot 1 teams.

There's a big difference there in the standard of opposition that the counties would face in their bid to reach the quarter-finals.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2257 - 16/11/2023 09:02:21    2513273

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Replying To fathermurphy:  "At least we were somewhat compeditive , now we are a no show"
I'm following Wexford teams around the country since the early 90s. In the 90s we were competitive but inconsistent. We only won 2 Leinsters. In the noughties we were competitive and inconsistent at the start, but by the end we were in danger of disappearing altogether. We had become consistent, consistently bad. We got more competitive through the teens, and won 1 more Leinster in 2019. We won no Leinsters in the 80s. We are back to being competitive but inconsistent I'd say now in the 2020s. We haven't lost a championship game to Kilkenny in 70 minutes in the 3 games played this decade. We should've beaten Clare last year in Semple. Maybe would have if Rory had lasted longer than 7 minutes. They have been 2 of the best 4 teams this decade along with Limerick and Galway. But then we haven't beaten Westmeath or Dublin this decade in 4 Championship games. So as I said, we are back to being inconsistent.
This year was a bad year ok, but we were decimated by injuries, and hampered by a manager whose gameplan only suited 1 of our forwards, and he missed alot of games injured. Tipp had a worse year last year for example. Hard to judge a group of players on that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 11:04:31    2513306

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Replying To fathermurphy:  "No excuse, hurling has no future in the county with the current structures and hurling will just get worse, the hurling championship is played off in only six weeks, soccer will benefit here on ridicolous decions , Change it now before it gets too late"
That's a contradictory post. We were absolutely terrible end of the noughties beginning of the teens. The club hurling championship took all year back then.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 11:06:36    2513308

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "All right, will bring the hypothetical thing a little further....

You're dividing the clubs into hurling/football based on which they did better in this year. But unclear how exactly you're deciding which they did better in. For example, if a club's first hurling team finished fifth in senior and therefore went out at the group stage, but their first football team reached an Intermediate 'A' semi-final or final, which would you have marked down as doing better?

Also, the way I'm thinking, the hurling/football thing would have been decided by historical preferences in the clubs. Realistically, there'd be probably a large majority of hurling clubs, a few football ones, and a few still banging the dual drum."
Just for info this is the breakdown of clubs in Clare-
21 hurling only, 22 football only and 9 dual (clarecastle, clooney, corofin, cratloe, eire og, Parteen-meelick, SJDB, the banner, wolfe tones)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 11:41:15    2513317

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Replying To Viking66:  "Just for info this is the breakdown of clubs in Clare-
21 hurling only, 22 football only and 9 dual (clarecastle, clooney, corofin, cratloe, eire og, Parteen-meelick, SJDB, the banner, wolfe tones)"
There ya go. Don't know how many players with a hurling-only club would also play football with a football-only club (in the way a Faythe Harriers player might play football with Sarsfields), but am guessing it's nowhere near the proportion that we have here.

More likely a primarily football area in West Clare, primarily hurling in East Clare, and a few dual clubs in either the larger population centres, East/West "border areas", and a few places with a particularly strong GAA tradition.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2257 - 16/11/2023 14:26:48    2513361

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "There ya go. Don't know how many players with a hurling-only club would also play football with a football-only club (in the way a Faythe Harriers player might play football with Sarsfields), but am guessing it's nowhere near the proportion that we have here.

More likely a primarily football area in West Clare, primarily hurling in East Clare, and a few dual clubs in either the larger population centres, East/West "border areas", and a few places with a particularly strong GAA tradition."
No county has as high a proportion of dual players relative to overall player numbers as we do I'd be guessing. Nor even close to it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 14:52:54    2513365

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Rumours of a bit of a cull on the KK panel with some of last years panellists dropped and more retirements expected!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 15:18:22    2513368

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Thank god for football for the players sake . whatever level the player play at. They can go out and enjoy it an if they win its a bonus if they don't, they won't be dragged through the muck on here or anywhere else on how bad they are, we are, the whole county is .
Its funny for a so called hurling county why do so many play and want to play football because they enjoy it . Abd no one will change that in the majority .we Regardless of the so called hurling men trying to make them feel inferior because they play and enjoy it .
We are a dual county and i for one am proud and always will be proud to say I'm a wexford man and a dual player and supporter coach and would nt have given up one to improve the other but hey that's just me .
They enjoy it thats why they dont care if the supporters do. They play it for themselves, their clubs their families and don't care what people think.
Maybe a lesson in this if we want to improve hurling take the pressure off the players let them enjoy it instead of constantly berating them and making out they are letting me, you, their club ,their family the whole county down in some way, for gods sake its an amateur game that should be enjoyed not take over your whole life and if we don't win titles be it club or county we somehow are inferior and not worthy of wexford hurling . And could nt enjoy it
Give it back to the players for the enjoyment then just maybe the whole situation will turn around .
Take it away from the egos the hurlers on the ditch znd fine weather supporters looking fur the day out couple times a year .
Play for enjoyment and yourself, your team mates families ,clubs the ones that matter

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 184 - 16/11/2023 15:32:08    2513375

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Replying To Formertownie:  "Thank god for football for the players sake . whatever level the player play at. They can go out and enjoy it an if they win its a bonus if they don't, they won't be dragged through the muck on here or anywhere else on how bad they are, we are, the whole county is .
Its funny for a so called hurling county why do so many play and want to play football because they enjoy it . Abd no one will change that in the majority .we Regardless of the so called hurling men trying to make them feel inferior because they play and enjoy it .
We are a dual county and i for one am proud and always will be proud to say I'm a wexford man and a dual player and supporter coach and would nt have given up one to improve the other but hey that's just me .
They enjoy it thats why they dont care if the supporters do. They play it for themselves, their clubs their families and don't care what people think.
Maybe a lesson in this if we want to improve hurling take the pressure off the players let them enjoy it instead of constantly berating them and making out they are letting me, you, their club ,their family the whole county down in some way, for gods sake its an amateur game that should be enjoyed not take over your whole life and if we don't win titles be it club or county we somehow are inferior and not worthy of wexford hurling . And could nt enjoy it
Give it back to the players for the enjoyment then just maybe the whole situation will turn around .
Take it away from the egos the hurlers on the ditch znd fine weather supporters looking fur the day out couple times a year .
Play for enjoyment and yourself, your team mates families ,clubs the ones that matter"
But, but, the fella doing stats says that player A gave away possession so you can't, by any means, express yourself, and the manager is so powerful, even the semblance of a social life outside of the game will see you dropped.

The most ironic thing of all is amid our club's recent struggles at provincial level, there is still such a belief among the hurling illuminati that it can only be played in the summer months. Best get it over and done with as soon as possible so and have a big gap between county final and Leinster participation. Winter hurling definitely seems to affect our neighbours, and every serious hurling county too. Leave the muck for the football!

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1424 - 16/11/2023 15:58:06    2513382

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Replying To beano:  "But, but, the fella doing stats says that player A gave away possession so you can't, by any means, express yourself, and the manager is so powerful, even the semblance of a social life outside of the game will see you dropped.

The most ironic thing of all is amid our club's recent struggles at provincial level, there is still such a belief among the hurling illuminati that it can only be played in the summer months. Best get it over and done with as soon as possible so and have a big gap between county final and Leinster participation. Winter hurling definitely seems to affect our neighbours, and every serious hurling county too. Leave the muck for the football!"
While club managers would ask players to ease back on the social life that's far from the case in reality in many clubs in the county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 16/11/2023 17:02:42    2513399

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Do people seriously think that the club championship is why we do not win All Irelands and its not down to the simple fact that we just don't produce enough good players from the underage structures? The only publication on sports participation in County Wexford was back in 2014 and it said that Soccer was the biggest team sport participation and that was far greater than the national average.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 16/11/2023 17:15:36    2513404

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Replying To Viking66:  "Rumours of a bit of a cull on the KK panel with some of last years panellists dropped and more retirements expected!"
Lyng adding quite a few of the Under 20s he won the All Ireland with in 2022 I am told, so a few have to make way.

Padraig Walsh gone today, Conor Fogarty and a few others are to follow.

TJ Reid staying on for another year atleast.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 744 - 16/11/2023 20:58:04    2513418

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Replying To Viking66:  "No county has as high a proportion of dual players relative to overall player numbers as we do I'd be guessing. Nor even close to it."
Well I think it's great that players in wexford get equal opportunity to enjoy playing both equally for their clubs. Club comes first and we should be proud to have so many clubs operating in both at decent levels.

It mightn't be great for intercounty or club provincials but so what. The intercounty game is only for the top 1 or 2 percent of hurlers and footballers in the county. The way people are going on here you'd swear we were regularly winning and competing for All Ireland's the last 20 years.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 48 - 17/11/2023 01:08:37    2513433

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