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Wexford Club Hurling Championships 2023

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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" Your post was answering the post he is talking about I think." Thanks, but my post back there was basically in response to several statements made by tearintom. alwaysasub is the one who says here that he posted about the topic earlier in the year, and that's the one I'd like to see. Have scrolled back up a bit from my own earlier post, but I see nothing from alwaysasub there at all. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 23/08/2023 13:34:03 2501920 Link
Replying To alwaysasub: " Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" I'd love to post you a link but for some reason on Hoganstand it wont let me go past page 26. Is anyone else having the same problem? Can see older posts on this topic." Are you sure it was in this thread? My post was in a different one, called "Wexford Club Championship". Just 15 pages worth of posts there, so you should be able to browse into them all if you're looking for it. Pretty sure this "Wexford Club Hurling Championships 2023" thread was only set up at a later stage, just prior to the hurling championships actually starting. Or you could use the search function at the top if you can remember something distinctive from the post. For example, I found mine by searching for "Clongeen second team" as I remembered that the Clongeen second team was one of only two teams that didn't enter the league this year but who did enter it in the last year before the split season. And for what it's worth, think there are bigger issues at play there anyway as regards why they didn't enter the league this year. They withdrew their second team part way through last year's Junior A championship, and were therefore relegated to Junior B by default. And while they've entered this year's Junior B in the Ross District, remains to be seen whether they'll actually be able to field there either. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 23/08/2023 13:44:04 2501922 Link
Replying To Viking66: "That post gives the impression you know nothing about the club scene at all if you think every club favours one code over another." The majority of clubs do. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 23/08/2023 13:47:00 2501923 Link
Replying To tearintom: "The majority of clubs do." Most I know of down this way don't really. Maybe 10 years ago it would've been the case that most preferred football but that definitely isn't the case now. Individual players might prefer one or the other but any I know from any club like playing both. I know of at least 2 current Senior intercounty hurlers who have said they prefer playing football for example. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12123 - 23/08/2023 14:01:10 2501931 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" Your post was answering the post he is talking about I think." Thanks, but my post back there was basically in response to several statements made by tearintom. alwaysasub is the one who says here that he posted about the topic earlier in the year, and that's the one I'd like to see. Have scrolled back up a bit from my own earlier post, but I see nothing from alwaysasub there at all."]Sorry Pikeman I thought he meant a post he read. I'm very busy today in the workshop! Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12123 - 23/08/2023 14:05:28 2501934 Link
Replying To tearintom: "The majority of clubs do." I'd have to agree with Tom and alwaysasub on this one. It might only be 60-40 or even 55-45 in favour of one over the other, but there are very few where there'd be a 50-50 divide between football and hurling. Maybe unlike Viking though, I'm not measuring it on time spent or effort put into each code - I'm just going by clear natural preference of people for one over the other. For example, in my own club, there were two football training sessions and a match during a football week in the League, and two hurling training sessions and a match in a hurling week. And now the lads are training twice a week for the football championship, same as they had hurling training twice a week during that one. So, from Viking's point of view, you could maybe call that a 50-50 split. But the real situation here is that hurling is a clear preference for probably 80% of players, and for more than 90% of supporters. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 23/08/2023 14:16:22 2501939 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd have to agree with Tom and alwaysasub on this one. It might only be 60-40 or even 55-45 in favour of one over the other, but there are very few where there'd be a 50-50 divide between football and hurling. Maybe unlike Viking though, I'm not measuring it on time spent or effort put into each code - I'm just going by clear natural preference of people for one over the other. For example, in my own club, there were two football training sessions and a match during a football week in the League, and two hurling training sessions and a match in a hurling week. And now the lads are training twice a week for the football championship, same as they had hurling training twice a week during that one. So, from Viking's point of view, you could maybe call that a 50-50 split. But the real situation here is that hurling is a clear preference for probably 80% of players, and for more than 90% of supporters." That's a different point. I far prefer watching hurling, especially at high intercounty level where football is usually poor enough fare for the spectator. A good club game of football, or even a lower League intercounty game, is still usually entertaining too though. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12123 - 23/08/2023 14:51:55 2501949 Link
Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" Your post was answering the post he is talking about I think." Thanks, but my post back there was basically in response to several statements made by tearintom. alwaysasub is the one who says here that he posted about the topic earlier in the year, and that's the one I'd like to see. Have scrolled back up a bit from my own earlier post, but I see nothing from alwaysasub there at all."]Sorry Pikeman I thought he meant a post he read. I'm very busy today in the workshop!"]Unfortuantely I have looked everywhere but cant find it. Basically i had a break down of what teams entered in since 2019 and showed that there was nearly something like 15% less teams entered into this years football championship compared to last 2019 before covid. Unfortunately I cant find the exact figure. I'll keep looking :) On a separate note, is there any U21 football games going ahead this evening, seeing nothing but walkovers on twitter. alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 23/08/2023 15:50:04 2501959 Link
Replying To Viking66: "That's a different point. I far prefer watching hurling, especially at high intercounty level where football is usually poor enough fare for the spectator. A good club game of football, or even a lower League intercounty game, is still usually entertaining too though." Yeah, seems you and I (and probably other posters) are coming at the same thing from different perspectives all right. As I said, while my own club would have a fairly even 50-50 split between hurling and football in terms of training & matches etc., it's nowhere near 50-50 in terms of personal preferences for one over the other. In terms of watching football - and I don't know what anyone will make of this statement! - I often find that the further you go down the grades, the more enjoyable it is. Less emphasis on overly defensive set-ups and "keep ball" tactics, and more like the game as it was traditionally played. But that's just my opinion. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 23/08/2023 16:10:21 2501965 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "I'd have to agree with Tom and alwaysasub on this one. It might only be 60-40 or even 55-45 in favour of one over the other, but there are very few where there'd be a 50-50 divide between football and hurling. Maybe unlike Viking though, I'm not measuring it on time spent or effort put into each code - I'm just going by clear natural preference of people for one over the other. For example, in my own club, there were two football training sessions and a match during a football week in the League, and two hurling training sessions and a match in a hurling week. And now the lads are training twice a week for the football championship, same as they had hurling training twice a week during that one. So, from Viking's point of view, you could maybe call that a 50-50 split. But the real situation here is that hurling is a clear preference for probably 80% of players, and for more than 90% of supporters." Yep and 70 - 80% of clubs also would have a preference towards Hurling over football. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 23/08/2023 16:15:06 2501967 Link
@alwaysasub - quotes gone messy here so am just starting a new one.... Presume you mean entered football league rather than entered football championship. Apart from some fluctuation at Junior B level, there'd be the same number of entries in the championship each year. So on that basis - My own post comparing 2019 Football League (last year before Covid and the split season) to this year's League had a different result. Just four teams who entered the League then who didn't enter it in 2023: - Fethard - mainly because they'd been playing and training throughout November, December, and into January anyway. - Bunclody - remains the controversial one. But remember they didn't enter the Hurling League either, so it probably can't be said that the main reason was a long gap between League and Championship, because the same reason wouldn't apply there. Seems to have been more of a "tactical" decision that they'd prefer practice matches against clubs from other counties. - Blackwater - can't claim to have any info on this. Maybe a genuine case of "no interest in football now because it's so far away from the championship". Might be relevant that they operate only at Junior level in football anyway. - Clongeen's second team - where they maybe don't have the numbers for a second team any more anyway, based on how they withdrew this team part-way through last year's championship. Overall, 53 teams entered the Football League in 2019, and four of them didn't enter this year - that's a drop-off of 7.5%, not 15%. And I'd hazard a guess (but can't be sure) that if Fethard hadn't won their Leinster Championship last year, that they'd have entered this year's League anyway. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 23/08/2023 16:22:49 2501968 Link
Replying To alwaysasub: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "I'd be interested in seeing that post, as I did up a post myself which shows the "problem" of clubs not entering the football league isn't actually much of a problem at all - https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/111913?County=National&PageNumber=13&TopicID=111913#msg_2468607 link" Your post was answering the post he is talking about I think." Thanks, but my post back there was basically in response to several statements made by tearintom. alwaysasub is the one who says here that he posted about the topic earlier in the year, and that's the one I'd like to see. Have scrolled back up a bit from my own earlier post, but I see nothing from alwaysasub there at all."]Sorry Pikeman I thought he meant a post he read. I'm very busy today in the workshop!"]Unfortuantely I have looked everywhere but cant find it. Basically i had a break down of what teams entered in since 2019 and showed that there was nearly something like 15% less teams entered into this years football championship compared to last 2019 before covid. Unfortunately I cant find the exact figure. I'll keep looking :) On a separate note, is there any U21 football games going ahead this evening, seeing nothing but walkovers on twitter."]Cushinstown are playing starlights as far as I know Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 267 - 23/08/2023 18:51:01 2501989 Link
Thinking out loud here but would the following be a viable approach? Realistically, the earliest any club should be playing a match is mid-February. The latest any adult club competition should take place is late October (Leaving aside U20 Football for now). That's about 8.5 months by my calculation which is in or around 36-38 weeks. We have five group games, QFs, SFs, and a Final in both hurling and football; that's 16 weeks so essentially 4 months. Working backwards, that means the club championship should be starting in late June/early July. That leaves mid-February to mid-June open for other club competitions (Roughly 16-20 weeks). Assuming there must be a football week for every hurling week, that means 8-10 weeks for both hurling and football. If people aren't taking the League seriously, should we consider shorterning the League? How about divisions of 8 which are divided into two groups of 4 teams each, top team in each plays in the Final, bottom team in each gets relegated. That'd account for an eight-week period starting in early May and ending in mid-to-late June. My proposal would then be that each district would organise a hurling and football competition for March and April. I know New Ross do something like this already. Would pretty much replace practice games at the start of the year, woud cut down on distances travelled, and would add a bit of local competition to the scene. Like for the Gorey District in hurling, you could have something like the following: Division 1: Naomh Éanna, Ferns, Alley, and Askamore Division 2: Tara Rocks, Craanford, Ballygarrett, and Liam Mellows Division 3: Pat's, Ferns Juniors, Naomh Éanna Juniors, Alley Juniors Could then maybe have all the District Finals in the one venue on the Bank Holiday weekend in early May Maybe the above is not viable, I'm just throwing it out there moreso than anything else ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 280 - 23/08/2023 18:55:04 2501991 Link
Replying To ElGranSenor: "Thinking out loud here but would the following be a viable approach? Realistically, the earliest any club should be playing a match is mid-February. The latest any adult club competition should take place is late October (Leaving aside U20 Football for now). That's about 8.5 months by my calculation which is in or around 36-38 weeks. We have five group games, QFs, SFs, and a Final in both hurling and football; that's 16 weeks so essentially 4 months. Working backwards, that means the club championship should be starting in late June/early July. That leaves mid-February to mid-June open for other club competitions (Roughly 16-20 weeks). Assuming there must be a football week for every hurling week, that means 8-10 weeks for both hurling and football. If people aren't taking the League seriously, should we consider shorterning the League? How about divisions of 8 which are divided into two groups of 4 teams each, top team in each plays in the Final, bottom team in each gets relegated. That'd account for an eight-week period starting in early May and ending in mid-to-late June. My proposal would then be that each district would organise a hurling and football competition for March and April. I know New Ross do something like this already. Would pretty much replace practice games at the start of the year, woud cut down on distances travelled, and would add a bit of local competition to the scene. Like for the Gorey District in hurling, you could have something like the following: Division 1: Naomh Éanna, Ferns, Alley, and Askamore Division 2: Tara Rocks, Craanford, Ballygarrett, and Liam Mellows Division 3: Pat's, Ferns Juniors, Naomh Éanna Juniors, Alley Juniors Could then maybe have all the District Finals in the one venue on the Bank Holiday weekend in early May Maybe the above is not viable, I'm just throwing it out there moreso than anything else" It's maybe an idea worth exploring. Might work particularly well in the lower grades, where I think sometimes part of the "problem" with the League is limited appetite for travelling relatively long distances for an away match, so staying fairly local might be an advantage. Then again, for a good few years, clubs generally liked the way where you could be going anywhere in the county for the League. This gave the chance to play others you mightn't often come up against, instead of regularly playing the same clubs from your own general area. An example of how attitudes seem to change every few years, and how you can never be right! Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 24/08/2023 13:08:44 2502064 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "It's maybe an idea worth exploring. Might work particularly well in the lower grades, where I think sometimes part of the "problem" with the League is limited appetite for travelling relatively long distances for an away match, so staying fairly local might be an advantage. Then again, for a good few years, clubs generally liked the way where you could be going anywhere in the county for the League. This gave the chance to play others you mightn't often come up against, instead of regularly playing the same clubs from your own general area. An example of how attitudes seem to change every few years, and how you can never be right!" https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41199646.html Read this article by tony considine few weeks ago and seems in theory like a good alternative to the fixtures problem. But it would require approval from Croke Park camánouttathat (Wexford) - Posts: 47 - 24/08/2023 14:37:09 2502085 Link
Replying To Pikeman96: "Yeah, seems you and I (and probably other posters) are coming at the same thing from different perspectives all right. As I said, while my own club would have a fairly even 50-50 split between hurling and football in terms of training & matches etc., it's nowhere near 50-50 in terms of personal preferences for one over the other. In terms of watching football - and I don't know what anyone will make of this statement! - I often find that the further you go down the grades, the more enjoyable it is. Less emphasis on overly defensive set-ups and "keep ball" tactics, and more like the game as it was traditionally played. But that's just my opinion." Well funny you say that, I watched a challenge match the other night in our local pitch for our juniors and thought it more enjoyable than most inter county football matches! That said, I am not minded to part with my hard earned cash to watch football. Ever. Unless club in county semi final or further. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1140 - 24/08/2023 15:19:41 2502094 Link
Replying To camánouttathat: "https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41199646.html Read this article by tony considine few weeks ago and seems in theory like a good alternative to the fixtures problem. But it would require approval from Croke Park" Its interesting. But for me they simply need to reduce the amount of intercounty games and free up more space for club players over the entire year rather than the situation where a club player is effectively banned from playing anything for 7 months of the year. Honestly the amount of intercounty games is ridiculous at this stage. There should be at least 4 weeks freed up for Club games to happen before the end of the intercounty season if not even more and simply make it a rule where all intercounty managers MUST release their players back to the clubs and make the punishment for not doing so severe enough that they will. I mean no one takes the National Hurling league seriously, in football its is taken a bit more seriously but conversely theyve managed to actually nullify the attractiveness of the provincial championships. The split season in its current guise doesnt work for me, it needs to be tweaked. tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 24/08/2023 15:19:58 2502095 Link
On the topic of junior B, is there a reason why it is district based when every other grade is not? ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1140 - 24/08/2023 15:21:12 2502096 Link
Replying To wexford2012: "At present we don't have a single 4G pitch, we should have one at Ferns anyway but they cost circa €1m. Wonder is there one in the plans?" Not a clue. That stadium in Beckan cost 3m I think with the dome included. It would be well spent money in my opinion and removes many hurdles to the rushed nature of our club championship if the football championship could be played in a dome. I not saying any of this is a cure all, but if Wexford is to remain a dual 50-50 county something has to be done differently. Because at the moment, the county is winning in nothing and regressing in both. ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1140 - 24/08/2023 15:24:05 2502097 Link
Replying To camánouttathat: "https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41199646.html Read this article by tony considine few weeks ago and seems in theory like a good alternative to the fixtures problem. But it would require approval from Croke Park" Ammm.....think it through: - A club season March to June, to include the All-Ireland Club Championships. Means every county championship would have to be over by middle of May. Many clubs would be finished in both hurling and football by the end of April, unless you ran some other sort of League then during the summer....but that would probably fare even worse than the Leagues we already have in Wexford. If some clubs don't take the League seriously "because the championship is ages away", they probably won't make much of an effort for a League where it would be "what's the point, because the championship is over already". - Inter-county season then starting in July, running through to All-Ireland Finals in September. I know people sometimes complain about things like Walsh Cup and the National League, but surely there's still a need for some sort of initial competition like that to test out new players/systems/etc., instead of going straight into championship? Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 24/08/2023 15:28:52 2502100 Link