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Replying To zinny: "A couple of was of resolving the problem
1. Allow players to transfer more freely
2. Reduce the number of clubs
Now they will never happen but if winning All Irelands was all that counted then they would.
That said they county should be looking at what each of these U20/21s are doing and ensuring that someplace they are in a good development program - for players in third level its not as much a problem unless they are in the lower tier hurling group for players that are not then why can their development still not continue through a county setup - have a Senior Academy like in rugby" We have to build a bridge to connect u20/1 with Senior. With good handrails so as few players as possible fall off of it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 10/08/2023 14:37:26
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Would there be merit to playing a district championship at the same time as the inter county championship? It might give some club players a chance to play at a higher level and could unearth a player or two.
Maybe logistically difficult but I think Wexford need to stop saying why things can't work and instead MAKE things work. E.g. Combined colleges, district championships in April-May-June, anything to get players play more and better games.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1336 - 10/08/2023 15:16:03
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Replying To Viking66: "I don't think people think it's a good thing. But if it hadn't happened the club game would've disappeared altogether as the intercounty game just kept on expanding." sound logic, well put, your 100% orrect
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2972 - 10/08/2023 15:26:06
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Ian Carty around 2018/19/20 was probably a victim of Davy Fitzgerald's "reluctance" (for want of a better word) to bring new players on board and broaden the squad, no matter what grade of club hurling those players might have been lining out in. There are several senior club hurlers who you could argue were equally hard done by during those years.
And in fairness to Carty, he's taken the chance he's been given since then, and he's taken it well.
Also, I'm not going to bat for Darragh Egan here and I'm certainly not suggesting he always made the right calls, but when he first took over, he looked at between 80 and 100 players from all grades in training/trial matches. Some of the players mentioned above by other posters were among the ones looked at during this time, or at a later stage of Egan's time in charge. It's not the case that players from lower grades never got a call and were never given a chance.
But here's the rub...
Seems generally accepted here that overall, our standard of even senior club hurling is relatively poor. Would presume it would also be generally accepted that there's quite a step up between even senior club hurling and inter-county senior hurling.
So, there'd be an even bigger step up to county hurling from any of the lower club grades. Somebody might be shooting the lights out at Intermediate, Intermediate A, or lower, but just not have what it would take to hack it at county level." Is Wexford unique in the step up between senior club and county though? If anything recent results in the club championships outside of senior suggest our lower grades are very strong. Senior, this year aside, with the 12 team setup has been very competitive in recent years with decent teams like Cloughbawn going down. I didn't see the games last Sunday but reports were certainly a lot more positive than the two games on Saturday? Maybe the reports of poor quality are a bit over stated. I definitely wouldn't be in favour of extending senior to 16 teams as every decent competition has to have jeopardy associated with it.
There's a big gap now between u20 county and inter county senior, just for players to be able to physically compete. That's the challenge all counties have, how to keep players who might not be ready for 2-3 years committed.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 402 - 10/08/2023 15:30:22
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Would there be merit to playing a district championship at the same time as the inter county championship? It might give some club players a chance to play at a higher level and could unearth a player or two.
Maybe logistically difficult but I think Wexford need to stop saying why things can't work and instead MAKE things work. E.g. Combined colleges, district championships in April-May-June, anything to get players play more and better games." That kind of positivity and thinking is what has been lacking for years here. Not enough ideas and too many lads putting pins in the bubbles when other lads come up with suggestions.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 10/08/2023 16:11:54
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Ian Carty around 2018/19/20 was probably a victim of Davy Fitzgerald's "reluctance" (for want of a better word) to bring new players on board and broaden the squad, no matter what grade of club hurling those players might have been lining out in. There are several senior club hurlers who you could argue were equally hard done by during those years.
And in fairness to Carty, he's taken the chance he's been given since then, and he's taken it well.
Also, I'm not going to bat for Darragh Egan here and I'm certainly not suggesting he always made the right calls, but when he first took over, he looked at between 80 and 100 players from all grades in training/trial matches. Some of the players mentioned above by other posters were among the ones looked at during this time, or at a later stage of Egan's time in charge. It's not the case that players from lower grades never got a call and were never given a chance.
But here's the rub...
Seems generally accepted here that overall, our standard of even senior club hurling is relatively poor. Would presume it would also be generally accepted that there's quite a step up between even senior club hurling and inter-county senior hurling.
So, there'd be an even bigger step up to county hurling from any of the lower club grades. Somebody might be shooting the lights out at Intermediate, Intermediate A, or lower, but just not have what it would take to hack it at county level." I don't for one second think that a lad from Intermediate, Intermediate A or Junior is going to come straight in from the cold and shoot the lights out at intercounty. But most of the lads I mentioned on this thread hurled underage for the county. It's not like they just appeared. Moreso they just disappeared from people's thinking when they finished up at minor or u20/1. Given proper development in the Senior set up they might well turn out to be great intercounty players.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 10/08/2023 16:17:33
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Replying To Timbertony: "Is Wexford unique in the step up between senior club and county though? If anything recent results in the club championships outside of senior suggest our lower grades are very strong. Senior, this year aside, with the 12 team setup has been very competitive in recent years with decent teams like Cloughbawn going down. I didn't see the games last Sunday but reports were certainly a lot more positive than the two games on Saturday? Maybe the reports of poor quality are a bit over stated. I definitely wouldn't be in favour of extending senior to 16 teams as every decent competition has to have jeopardy associated with it.
There's a big gap now between u20 county and inter county senior, just for players to be able to physically compete. That's the challenge all counties have, how to keep players who might not be ready for 2-3 years committed." Every other county is able to do it. Although one advantage they had for many years was their underage S and C, which in fairness to the Board and minor and u20 managements we have improved in over the last couple of years.
I like Zinnys idea of some sort of Academy set up for lads aged between 20 and 23/4.
I also like Exileds idea about 4 District teams playing, maybe this could be done after the club Leagues finish up though?
I also agree with many posters that the combined schools was a good idea, although I can see why schools at Colleges B level with aspirations of reaching Colleges A level were against it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 10/08/2023 16:23:26
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Would there be merit to playing a district championship at the same time as the inter county championship? It might give some club players a chance to play at a higher level and could unearth a player or two.
Maybe logistically difficult but I think Wexford need to stop saying why things can't work and instead MAKE things work. E.g. Combined colleges, district championships in April-May-June, anything to get players play more and better games." I had an idea running around my head at one stage of doing a Barony Challenge!!
There are 10 old baronies of Wexford but for modern day club splits etc you could go with 8.
The problem with districts is you have 4 teams as such and a limited amount of games across a lot of clubs, 8 means more exposure to more players from the clubs.
Get a sponsor for each barony, a unique jersey for each with a decent design that might appeal for jersey sales. Something tangible as a reward for winning or runner up etc rather than medals, say gym membership/club season pass/cairde membership and fully paid meal for the winners etc.
Dont think it would be the hardest thing logistically.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1498 - 10/08/2023 16:41:34
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Replying To tearintom: "I had an idea running around my head at one stage of doing a Barony Challenge!!
There are 10 old baronies of Wexford but for modern day club splits etc you could go with 8.
The problem with districts is you have 4 teams as such and a limited amount of games across a lot of clubs, 8 means more exposure to more players from the clubs.
Get a sponsor for each barony, a unique jersey for each with a decent design that might appeal for jersey sales. Something tangible as a reward for winning or runner up etc rather than medals, say gym membership/club season pass/cairde membership and fully paid meal for the winners etc.
Dont think it would be the hardest thing logistically." Would the Barony teams include senior clubs?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 10/08/2023 16:45:49
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Replying To Viking66: "Would the Barony teams include senior clubs?" Initially my thinking was no, i was honestly looking at it from a football point of view and the fact less teams now bother playing football league despite the fact that some of these clubs would have some very good footballers. This could be a way to get them playing.
But it could be worked either way depending on what suits best
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1498 - 10/08/2023 16:55:06
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Replying To Viking66: "I don't for one second think that a lad from Intermediate, Intermediate A or Junior is going to come straight in from the cold and shoot the lights out at intercounty. But most of the lads I mentioned on this thread hurled underage for the county. It's not like they just appeared. Moreso they just disappeared from people's thinking when they finished up at minor or u20/1. Given proper development in the Senior set up they might well turn out to be great intercounty players." Again, I don't mean to overly criticise Davy or go to bat for Egan, but many players up to the age of even 25 or 26 may have lost out because of Davy's approach. For example, somebody who was on the U20 panel at 19 years of age when Davy took over in 2016 would have been 24 years old by the time Davy left, and would quite likely have been overlooked or not given a proper chance for the senior panel during that time.
On the other hand, one of the good things Egan did was give individual training/S&C/nutrition plans to players who weren't on the panel this year but who he felt had the potential to make it next year or even the year after.
I honestly don't know the current status of these, but they're probably somewhat along the lines of what's being suggested here, and it's something that would surely be good if it was continued and further developed going forward.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 10/08/2023 17:20:37
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Replying To tearintom: "I had an idea running around my head at one stage of doing a Barony Challenge!!
There are 10 old baronies of Wexford but for modern day club splits etc you could go with 8.
The problem with districts is you have 4 teams as such and a limited amount of games across a lot of clubs, 8 means more exposure to more players from the clubs.
Get a sponsor for each barony, a unique jersey for each with a decent design that might appeal for jersey sales. Something tangible as a reward for winning or runner up etc rather than medals, say gym membership/club season pass/cairde membership and fully paid meal for the winners etc.
Dont think it would be the hardest thing logistically." I like it. I wouldnt include senior teams.
logger (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 10/08/2023 17:34:22
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I am running out the door to training but where were the 8 baronies tearintom? Education for the immigrant!
I think it is an idea with merit. If it creates a higher standard of hurling for 8 teams, why not? It could be ran on the same weekends as inter county action and say a player was hurling well in it he could end up in the Wexford panel or extend squad. Would clubs buy in to it though, and would clubs put a county hurling league match ahead of it? Try it. Why not?
Viking, lets say Wexford CBS as an random example wanted to go it alone and not join with the combined college. I don't see any problem with that. But if they in Senior B hurling, then surely they could let their top 3-4-5 off to combined colleges to play A hurling with Enniscorthy / Bunclody / Kilmuckridge / Gorey schools. Expsoses players to a higher standard of hurling. I'm almost sure that is how Dublin north did it a few years ago but I will check.
Anything in Wexford which exposes the club players to a higher standard of hurling and more good games should be on the table.
As a county its time to stop the "why not" / problem finding mantra, but start saying well why not try it and try to improve it or change it and if it fails, after a proper attempt for a few years, then bin it but come back with something else. The combined colleges is an example I am exercised about because I have sons soon in that age bracket and its a crying shame they never get to play the top schools in Leinster even, let alone the Hearty Cup teams.
I think the idea was half-tried and binned on a whim. I might be wrong in this perception but to me, less than half of the top hurlers in the county getting A-level hurling does not help.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1336 - 10/08/2023 18:28:49
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The districts team idea is good one, especially for the New Ross district. If you were to make 4 district teams excluding senior teams who'd have the strongest one? I like this idea. It's worked very well in places like Cork and Kerry, thinking of Paudie Clifford in Kerry performing well with East Kerry, Seamus Harnedy in Imokilly in Cork, there's plenty more examples but they're probably two of the best known atm. It would give a good boost to these clubs too, making these teams would be a great achievement in itself and exposes to higher level club hurling. I see Roscommon have also brought this in for their football championship, North Roscommon and South Roscommon teams in the championship this year. A very strong club Championship already before that. It mightnt work as well with the wexford championship currently but see no reason why it can't be tinkered around with or tried at some stage. Curious to see what people think would be the best district minus senior teams
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 318 - 10/08/2023 18:51:50
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Replying To tearintom: "I had an idea running around my head at one stage of doing a Barony Challenge!!
There are 10 old baronies of Wexford but for modern day club splits etc you could go with 8.
The problem with districts is you have 4 teams as such and a limited amount of games across a lot of clubs, 8 means more exposure to more players from the clubs.
Get a sponsor for each barony, a unique jersey for each with a decent design that might appeal for jersey sales. Something tangible as a reward for winning or runner up etc rather than medals, say gym membership/club season pass/cairde membership and fully paid meal for the winners etc.
Dont think it would be the hardest thing logistically." Nice idea but be far better to come up with a meaningful league competition for clubs.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 10/08/2023 22:28:50
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I am running out the door to training but where were the 8 baronies tearintom? Education for the immigrant!
I think it is an idea with merit. If it creates a higher standard of hurling for 8 teams, why not? It could be ran on the same weekends as inter county action and say a player was hurling well in it he could end up in the Wexford panel or extend squad. Would clubs buy in to it though, and would clubs put a county hurling league match ahead of it? Try it. Why not?
Viking, lets say Wexford CBS as an random example wanted to go it alone and not join with the combined college. I don't see any problem with that. But if they in Senior B hurling, then surely they could let their top 3-4-5 off to combined colleges to play A hurling with Enniscorthy / Bunclody / Kilmuckridge / Gorey schools. Expsoses players to a higher standard of hurling. I'm almost sure that is how Dublin north did it a few years ago but I will check.
Anything in Wexford which exposes the club players to a higher standard of hurling and more good games should be on the table.
As a county its time to stop the "why not" / problem finding mantra, but start saying well why not try it and try to improve it or change it and if it fails, after a proper attempt for a few years, then bin it but come back with something else. The combined colleges is an example I am exercised about because I have sons soon in that age bracket and its a crying shame they never get to play the top schools in Leinster even, let alone the Hearty Cup teams.
I think the idea was half-tried and binned on a whim. I might be wrong in this perception but to me, less than half of the top hurlers in the county getting A-level hurling does not help." Forth/Bargy/Shelburne/Shelmalier West/Shelmalier East/Bantry/Scarawalsh/Gorey/Ballaghkeen North/Ballaghkeen South
The difference in size of some compared to others means you couldnt actually go with the old boundaries, i mean Bantry is huge compared to say Shelmalier East.
You still see some of the names linger on, obviously Shelmaliers being where the name derived from, Bantry Common is essentially the area of White Mountain and the Blackstairs, Shelmalier Commons meets Bargy Commons up on Forth Mountain, Ballaghkeen etc.
If you google the image you will see the maps.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1498 - 11/08/2023 10:30:09
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Lads ye are talking some scutter there now.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 788 - 11/08/2023 11:17:01
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Replying To countyman2022: "Lads ye are talking some scutter there now." Tell us your great ideas then......
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1336 - 11/08/2023 12:14:05
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On District/Baronies teams - a novel idea, and maybe worth exploring, but let's look at some of the issues:
1 - The other counties mentioned above are able to work district teams into their senior championships, which is why people take the district teams seriously. I simply don't see how this could work in Wexford, unless players committed fully to the district/barony teams, turning their back on their own intermediate or junior clubs.
2 - So, it would have to be run separately, and I'd fear this would lead to it being viewed as "just another Mickey Mouse yoke".
3 - When would you run it? Instead of the League, or alongside it? If it was instead of the League, then you'd only be giving games to a relatively small number of players, instead of to all who want them. If it was alongside the League, then either players would choose not to commit to the district/barony teams and stay with their clubs instead, or else they'd go with the barony/district teams and leave their own clubs short, increasing the chances of club teams not being able to field in the League.
4 - Finally, if this was introduced in hurling with a view to increasing the overall standard, then surely it would have to be introduced in football as well, or else there'd be the usual complaints about how "they're not doing as much work for football".
Conscious that some here are calling for new thinking and may be critical of anyone who looks like they're knocking new ideas, so I don't mean to appear negative. Am just pointing out some of the things that would realistically need to be considered if this idea was properly put forward, as anyone proposing it would have to have answers to things like these.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 11/08/2023 13:45:51
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Amazing listening to Richie Kehoe complain about the hurling championship format when it was his own club who were the ones who pushed for it and then brought in the idea of replays on Wednesday nights.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 191 - 11/08/2023 14:09:21
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