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Replying To Past hurler: "Lads, the standard of club hurling for a Liam McCarthy county is shocking at the minute.
I've watched quite a few games across Senior and Inter the last few weeks and the hurling is very very slow and littered with poor first touch, poor striking etc etc.
Not sure what the fix is with this, but I think it is the reason we have a really poor record in Leinster competitions too.
The winners also have to wait a very very long time now to play the Leinster games too.
But a lot of them play football in a few weeks, I think we are starting to see the overall effects of this new club season split.
The outcome is hurling is Wexford is going backwards under it." Wexford hurling before the split season we won 4 Leinster senior hurling championships in 20 years. 1996, 1997, 2004 and 2019. By the law of averages if we revisit this post in 2040 we will have another 4 Leinster hurling championship titles. 1 title every five years ratio
Leinster Club Hurling Championships 1970-2020 - Wexford clubs have won a total of 10 titles. Rathnure - 6, Buffers Alley 3, Oulart 1. 10 championships in 50 years. 1 title every five years ratio
This is what the 3rd year of the split season, do I see a Wexford club winning this championship in the next two years, honestly I don't but that's as much to do with the super clubs in the province. St Martin's looked like becoming the super club in Wexford but that has failed to materialise.
The Wexford senior hurlers regressed big time under Darragh Egan, you can say what you want but a team who can't beat Westmeath in two years in championship were definitely not being set up, coached or managed correctly. Not all blame lays with the manager either the players on the field in Wexford Park the season just gone out crumbled under the pressure from Westmeath in the second half.
Back to the topic here now. Do I believe any of the four teams left in this years Wexford championship are good enough to win the Leinster Championship? Probably not but it has nothing to do with the split season, if Ballyhale win Kilkenny then I fully expect them to win Leinster. Are any of the four good enough to win Leinster if Ballyhale don't win Kilkenny, possibly yeah.
Lets be honest here folks, Rathnure, Buffers Alley and Oulart didn't win Leinster with luck, they had brilliant teams at the times. They were in their golden eras for talent at their disposal. Oulart were a brilliant team and could only win one Leinster title. I remember going to watch them with Storey and Laim Dunne et al, they came up against a vintage Birr team. It's Ballyhale era at the moment.
The split season in my opinion has very little impact on the Leinster club championships and in my opinion also very little impact on the standard of the Wexford senior hurling team.
Split season in Waterford for a few years now and Ballygunner won the Club All Ireland two years ago? All Ireland and Provincial Club championships are won by very very good teams while there maybe one fluke winner every decade the majority of club championships are won by brilliant teams, and we don't have the shade of a brilliant team in Wexford.
Honestly I don't think there is a club in Wexford who would get within 7-8 points of Ballygunner or Ballyhale and thats not negativity, that my friends is just a fact of life.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 09/08/2023 10:31:53
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Replying To Viking66: "As an aside I asked a Kilkenny man to name players on their panel who don't hurl for Senior clubs. Off the top of his head in the space of 5 minutes he named the following, adding that there were likely others he didnt think of-
Junior:
Tullogher - Wally Walsh
Freshford - Darren Brennan (James Meagher previously on panel too).
Galmoy - Billy Drennan
Emeralds - Killian Doyle
Intermediate:
Lisdowney - Niall Brennan
Conahy - Tom Phelan (James Bergin on panel previously)
Young Irelands - Mikey Carey
Dunnamaggin - Denis Walsh
Thomastown - John Donnelly & Peter McDonald
Obviously Danesfort were Intermediate up until last year also, and the 2 previous winners were Glenmore and Tullaroan. Players on these 3 teams on the current Kilkenny panel include-
Eoin Murphy
Richie Hogan
Padraig Walsh
Alan Murphy
Martin Keoghan
Shane Walsh
Tommy Walsh
Players the lad from Kilkenny may have missed include Jay Burke from Thomastown although I'm not sure he was in their squad this year.
That represents quite a difference in spread between the grades to what we had down here in Wexford the last 30 odd years that I'm following our hurling, and likely many years before that also." Matthew O'Hanlon started hurling with Wexford when he was in the 6th or 7th grade of hurling in Wexford I think.
Didn't St James come directly from Junior B?
I'd argue there was a couple of players brought into the Wexford squad this year by Darragh Egan that were done so off the back of recommendations by players in the squad. Similar happened during the Davy Fitz era also. and none of those players were good enough to play for Wexford. The gems in the smaller clubs have to get a chance and this should be a crucial part of Niall Williams work, Talent Identification. This is why Leinster Rugby is so strong, they spot talent and they nurture it.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 09/08/2023 10:54:28
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "Wexford hurling before the split season we won 4 Leinster senior hurling championships in 20 years. 1996, 1997, 2004 and 2019. By the law of averages if we revisit this post in 2040 we will have another 4 Leinster hurling championship titles. 1 title every five years ratio
Leinster Club Hurling Championships 1970-2020 - Wexford clubs have won a total of 10 titles. Rathnure - 6, Buffers Alley 3, Oulart 1. 10 championships in 50 years. 1 title every five years ratio
This is what the 3rd year of the split season, do I see a Wexford club winning this championship in the next two years, honestly I don't but that's as much to do with the super clubs in the province. St Martin's looked like becoming the super club in Wexford but that has failed to materialise.
The Wexford senior hurlers regressed big time under Darragh Egan, you can say what you want but a team who can't beat Westmeath in two years in championship were definitely not being set up, coached or managed correctly. Not all blame lays with the manager either the players on the field in Wexford Park the season just gone out crumbled under the pressure from Westmeath in the second half.
Back to the topic here now. Do I believe any of the four teams left in this years Wexford championship are good enough to win the Leinster Championship? Probably not but it has nothing to do with the split season, if Ballyhale win Kilkenny then I fully expect them to win Leinster. Are any of the four good enough to win Leinster if Ballyhale don't win Kilkenny, possibly yeah.
Lets be honest here folks, Rathnure, Buffers Alley and Oulart didn't win Leinster with luck, they had brilliant teams at the times. They were in their golden eras for talent at their disposal. Oulart were a brilliant team and could only win one Leinster title. I remember going to watch them with Storey and Laim Dunne et al, they came up against a vintage Birr team. It's Ballyhale era at the moment.
The split season in my opinion has very little impact on the Leinster club championships and in my opinion also very little impact on the standard of the Wexford senior hurling team.
Split season in Waterford for a few years now and Ballygunner won the Club All Ireland two years ago? All Ireland and Provincial Club championships are won by very very good teams while there maybe one fluke winner every decade the majority of club championships are won by brilliant teams, and we don't have the shade of a brilliant team in Wexford.
Honestly I don't think there is a club in Wexford who would get within 7-8 points of Ballygunner or Ballyhale and thats not negativity, that my friends is just a fact of life." Fact
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 11:19:49
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "Matthew O'Hanlon started hurling with Wexford when he was in the 6th or 7th grade of hurling in Wexford I think.
Didn't St James come directly from Junior B?
I'd argue there was a couple of players brought into the Wexford squad this year by Darragh Egan that were done so off the back of recommendations by players in the squad. Similar happened during the Davy Fitz era also. and none of those players were good enough to play for Wexford. The gems in the smaller clubs have to get a chance and this should be a crucial part of Niall Williams work, Talent Identification. This is why Leinster Rugby is so strong, they spot talent and they nurture it." I think the Jimmys had got up to Junior by the time Matthew started adult but I wouldn't be 100% sure. But we definitely have to cast our net further in the future. No good finding all these lads at underage intercounty and nurturing them and playing them and then never picking them again when they are adults.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 11:23:41
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The jimmies were junior b in 07 and we bet them in the district final. I know this cos I played in the district final and left for Oz before the district final. I think they won in 08 and went up after that. They had Graeme molloy and a few others but o Hanlon definitely wouldn't have been playing.
Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 364 - 09/08/2023 11:43:02
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There are a few players outside senior who should definitely be looked at. Off the top of my head, Tuker Kinsella i know was in wit the team last year but I have been very impressed with him, I would go as far as to say on of the best forwards in the intermediate grade. Also thought young Cathal Doyle has been impressive but not sure of his age? Maybe he is too young. Blackwaters Ben Redmond impressed me at the weekend, might be one to look at. Alley certainly have a few up and coming players who could be worth a trial. Not to familiar with lower grades but I say that Clongeen player that was mentioned here and was very impressed with him when I saw them play.
I would hope that the new manager casts his net far and wide and just dosent focus on the top grade. There is certainly players not on the rader before but could certainly be wroth a look.
For this weekends games:
Oylegate v Annes
As a neutrel, would love top see Oykegate winning but Annes are going about there business nicely. Annes win
Gorey v Martins
Difficult to call, Gorey have been doing ok without being very impressive, Martins seem to be ticking along nicely this year. Martins by 3.
Cloughbawn v Fethard
Hard to look past Cloughbawn, they have been disposing of teams with ease all year. Fethard will provide a tough challenge but cant see past Cloughbawn who should win this grade.
St. James v Taghmon
Saw both teams last weekend, very impressed from what i saw from the jimmies, took some lovely scores. Taghmon were disappointing, and have been for a couple of games, Think the luck will run out, St. James if O'Hanlon plays by 4.
alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 476 - 09/08/2023 11:48:44
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Replying To alwaysasub: "There are a few players outside senior who should definitely be looked at. Off the top of my head, Tuker Kinsella i know was in wit the team last year but I have been very impressed with him, I would go as far as to say on of the best forwards in the intermediate grade. Also thought young Cathal Doyle has been impressive but not sure of his age? Maybe he is too young. Blackwaters Ben Redmond impressed me at the weekend, might be one to look at. Alley certainly have a few up and coming players who could be worth a trial. Not to familiar with lower grades but I say that Clongeen player that was mentioned here and was very impressed with him when I saw them play.
I would hope that the new manager casts his net far and wide and just dosent focus on the top grade. There is certainly players not on the rader before but could certainly be wroth a look.
For this weekends games:
Oylegate v Annes
As a neutrel, would love top see Oykegate winning but Annes are going about there business nicely. Annes win
Gorey v Martins
Difficult to call, Gorey have been doing ok without being very impressive, Martins seem to be ticking along nicely this year. Martins by 3.
Cloughbawn v Fethard
Hard to look past Cloughbawn, they have been disposing of teams with ease all year. Fethard will provide a tough challenge but cant see past Cloughbawn who should win this grade.
St. James v Taghmon
Saw both teams last weekend, very impressed from what i saw from the jimmies, took some lovely scores. Taghmon were disappointing, and have been for a couple of games, Think the luck will run out, St. James if O'Hanlon plays by 4." Don't think Tucker Kinsella hardly struck a ball at the weekend. Went into it the 4 inter q finals and he was non existent when had an actual hurler marking him. The only few that I could pick out of intermediate to go in on co panel are the Fethard centre back and full back and Cloughbawn keeper and full back. Intermediate has been v poor this year. Carthy was good on Saturday again.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 788 - 09/08/2023 12:03:14
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Replying To Viking66: "I think the Jimmys had got up to Junior by the time Matthew started adult but I wouldn't be 100% sure. But we definitely have to cast our net further in the future. No good finding all these lads at underage intercounty and nurturing them and playing them and then never picking them again when they are adults." They were Junior A when he started hurling.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 788 - 09/08/2023 12:03:56
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Replying To alwaysasub: "There are a few players outside senior who should definitely be looked at. Off the top of my head, Tuker Kinsella i know was in wit the team last year but I have been very impressed with him, I would go as far as to say on of the best forwards in the intermediate grade. Also thought young Cathal Doyle has been impressive but not sure of his age? Maybe he is too young. Blackwaters Ben Redmond impressed me at the weekend, might be one to look at. Alley certainly have a few up and coming players who could be worth a trial. Not to familiar with lower grades but I say that Clongeen player that was mentioned here and was very impressed with him when I saw them play.
I would hope that the new manager casts his net far and wide and just dosent focus on the top grade. There is certainly players not on the rader before but could certainly be wroth a look.
For this weekends games:
Oylegate v Annes
As a neutrel, would love top see Oykegate winning but Annes are going about there business nicely. Annes win
Gorey v Martins
Difficult to call, Gorey have been doing ok without being very impressive, Martins seem to be ticking along nicely this year. Martins by 3.
Cloughbawn v Fethard
Hard to look past Cloughbawn, they have been disposing of teams with ease all year. Fethard will provide a tough challenge but cant see past Cloughbawn who should win this grade.
St. James v Taghmon
Saw both teams last weekend, very impressed from what i saw from the jimmies, took some lovely scores. Taghmon were disappointing, and have been for a couple of games, Think the luck will run out, St. James if O'Hanlon plays by 4." Would agree with all of these but I think St James and Taghmon is that tight the dreaded mid week replay isn't out of the equation.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/08/2023 12:17:22
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Replying To countyman2022: "They were Junior A when he started hurling." Sound. Although he kicked ball for the county also, winning a Leinster u21 football title in 2011. A really talented all round sportsman.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 12:47:47
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Replying To Viking66: "Hopefully Dundon gets picked up by Senior management this year and given proper s and c, nutrition, training and in house games against better opponents to bring on his game. If he doesn't this year he could just disappear like so many lads who don't hurl for "traditional " clubs." Spot on Viking - likes of Chapman, Purcell etc from Duffry and Walsh from Monageer all good minors in 21 i think it was but as not hurling senior will disappear. Happens too often and it's not down to the condensed championship
grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 180 - 09/08/2023 12:49:57
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Replying To alwaysasub: "There are a few players outside senior who should definitely be looked at. Off the top of my head, Tuker Kinsella i know was in wit the team last year but I have been very impressed with him, I would go as far as to say on of the best forwards in the intermediate grade. Also thought young Cathal Doyle has been impressive but not sure of his age? Maybe he is too young. Blackwaters Ben Redmond impressed me at the weekend, might be one to look at. Alley certainly have a few up and coming players who could be worth a trial. Not to familiar with lower grades but I say that Clongeen player that was mentioned here and was very impressed with him when I saw them play.
I would hope that the new manager casts his net far and wide and just dosent focus on the top grade. There is certainly players not on the rader before but could certainly be wroth a look.
For this weekends games:
Oylegate v Annes
As a neutrel, would love top see Oykegate winning but Annes are going about there business nicely. Annes win
Gorey v Martins
Difficult to call, Gorey have been doing ok without being very impressive, Martins seem to be ticking along nicely this year. Martins by 3.
Cloughbawn v Fethard
Hard to look past Cloughbawn, they have been disposing of teams with ease all year. Fethard will provide a tough challenge but cant see past Cloughbawn who should win this grade.
St. James v Taghmon
Saw both teams last weekend, very impressed from what i saw from the jimmies, took some lovely scores. Taghmon were disappointing, and have been for a couple of games, Think the luck will run out, St. James if O'Hanlon plays by 4." Cathal Doyle is 22 or 23. He got given a gym and nutrition programme by the last intercounty management team last winter, which has resulted in him getting a good bit stronger, while he kept up his speed work. Think he put on 5 or 6kg, nearly a stone. He's come in for savage punishment this year, including a blatant chop right down on the back after he was fouled the last day, and 2 knees on the chest against the Rocks. Got hit so hard against the Jimmys that his helmet flew off his head before he even hit the ground. No cards for any of these, but in fairness to him there's no whinging out of him he just gets up and keeps scoring. Tough bit of stuff!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 12:53:35
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Replying To countyman2022: "They were Junior A when he started hurling." So 5th grade of hurling, Andrew Shore what grade was he when he started with Wexford?
Michael Furlong 3rd grade
Talent Identification keeping lads in mind all the way up along and adding in anyone who excels in a championship in a given year, no matter what grade.
Also I would urge caution if a lad stands out and people think he should be playing county etc. 1. What is the lads attitude to training? 2. What career are they in? 3. Do they even want to play county?
There are lads out there who love the craic, love hurling or football but if they had to choose between two weeks in Magaluf or 9 months training for a county team there's only one choice for some of them and nothing against those lads.
Intercounty is not for everyone
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 09/08/2023 12:55:13
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Replying To countyman2022: " Replying To alwaysasub: "There are a few players outside senior who should definitely be looked at. Off the top of my head, Tuker Kinsella i know was in wit the team last year but I have been very impressed with him, I would go as far as to say on of the best forwards in the intermediate grade. Also thought young Cathal Doyle has been impressive but not sure of his age? Maybe he is too young. Blackwaters Ben Redmond impressed me at the weekend, might be one to look at. Alley certainly have a few up and coming players who could be worth a trial. Not to familiar with lower grades but I say that Clongeen player that was mentioned here and was very impressed with him when I saw them play.
I would hope that the new manager casts his net far and wide and just dosent focus on the top grade. There is certainly players not on the rader before but could certainly be wroth a look.
For this weekends games:
Oylegate v Annes
As a neutrel, would love top see Oykegate winning but Annes are going about there business nicely. Annes win
Gorey v Martins
Difficult to call, Gorey have been doing ok without being very impressive, Martins seem to be ticking along nicely this year. Martins by 3.
Cloughbawn v Fethard
Hard to look past Cloughbawn, they have been disposing of teams with ease all year. Fethard will provide a tough challenge but cant see past Cloughbawn who should win this grade.
St. James v Taghmon
Saw both teams last weekend, very impressed from what i saw from the jimmies, took some lovely scores. Taghmon were disappointing, and have been for a couple of games, Think the luck will run out, St. James if O'Hanlon plays by 4." Don't think Tucker Kinsella hardly struck a ball at the weekend. Went into it the 4 inter q finals and he was non existent when had an actual hurler marking him. The only few that I could pick out of intermediate to go in on co panel are the Fethard centre back and full back and Cloughbawn keeper and full back. Intermediate has been v poor this year. Carthy was good on Saturday again."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 13:06:11
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Replying To grassroots01: "Spot on Viking - likes of Chapman, Purcell etc from Duffry and Walsh from Monageer all good minors in 21 i think it was but as not hurling senior will disappear. Happens too often and it's not down to the condensed championship" Any player who feels they deserve a chance with Wexford should be onto the phone to the management also. New manager coming in, strike while the iron is hot, ring him say I'd like to play county and I think I am up to it. Worst that can happen is he says no.
Better than sitting on a high stool in Kiltealy telling everyone with no interest how you should be hurling for Wexford
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 09/08/2023 14:23:55
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "So 5th grade of hurling, Andrew Shore what grade was he when he started with Wexford?
Michael Furlong 3rd grade
Talent Identification keeping lads in mind all the way up along and adding in anyone who excels in a championship in a given year, no matter what grade.
Also I would urge caution if a lad stands out and people think he should be playing county etc. 1. What is the lads attitude to training? 2. What career are they in? 3. Do they even want to play county?
There are lads out there who love the craic, love hurling or football but if they had to choose between two weeks in Magaluf or 9 months training for a county team there's only one choice for some of them and nothing against those lads.
Intercounty is not for everyone" I agree with all that. Conor Devitt was Intermediate A I think or maybe Junior even too. And obviously a lad from any grade can get called up and it might not suit him. AJ and Cian Molloy being the 2 most recent examples.
But the fact remains lads from non Senior clubs don't get the phone call in the 1st place from Senior management very often. Ian Carty never got a call until late last year, even though he was nominated for an u21 all star in 2018 for example. If lads from Intermediate or Junior clubs don't even get called into the set up noone will ever know if it would have suited them or not, or if they would've been good enough or not.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 15:20:35
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Replying To hurlorhurley: "Any player who feels they deserve a chance with Wexford should be onto the phone to the management also. New manager coming in, strike while the iron is hot, ring him say I'd like to play county and I think I am up to it. Worst that can happen is he says no.
Better than sitting on a high stool in Kiltealy telling everyone with no interest how you should be hurling for Wexford" That would take alot of confidence from a young lad. Even lads in the panel a couple of years keep their heads down, do what's asked of them, and try and keep their mouths shut. Surely some of the management team should have an idea who is hurling well for their club. Or should make it their business to find out.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15700 - 09/08/2023 15:23:32
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Replying To Wexfordgaa: "The jimmies were junior b in 07 and we bet them in the district final. I know this cos I played in the district final and left for Oz before the district final. I think they won in 08 and went up after that. They had Graeme molloy and a few others but o Hanlon definitely wouldn't have been playing." Hanlon played on Junior B winning team in 09.
comc (Wexford) - Posts: 109 - 09/08/2023 16:09:16
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Replying To Viking66: "I agree with all that. Conor Devitt was Intermediate A I think or maybe Junior even too. And obviously a lad from any grade can get called up and it might not suit him. AJ and Cian Molloy being the 2 most recent examples.
But the fact remains lads from non Senior clubs don't get the phone call in the 1st place from Senior management very often. Ian Carty never got a call until late last year, even though he was nominated for an u21 all star in 2018 for example. If lads from Intermediate or Junior clubs don't even get called into the set up noone will ever know if it would have suited them or not, or if they would've been good enough or not." Ian Carty around 2018/19/20 was probably a victim of Davy Fitzgerald's "reluctance" (for want of a better word) to bring new players on board and broaden the squad, no matter what grade of club hurling those players might have been lining out in. There are several senior club hurlers who you could argue were equally hard done by during those years.
And in fairness to Carty, he's taken the chance he's been given since then, and he's taken it well.
Also, I'm not going to bat for Darragh Egan here and I'm certainly not suggesting he always made the right calls, but when he first took over, he looked at between 80 and 100 players from all grades in training/trial matches. Some of the players mentioned above by other posters were among the ones looked at during this time, or at a later stage of Egan's time in charge. It's not the case that players from lower grades never got a call and were never given a chance.
But here's the rub...
Seems generally accepted here that overall, our standard of even senior club hurling is relatively poor. Would presume it would also be generally accepted that there's quite a step up between even senior club hurling and inter-county senior hurling.
So, there'd be an even bigger step up to county hurling from any of the lower club grades. Somebody might be shooting the lights out at Intermediate, Intermediate A, or lower, but just not have what it would take to hack it at county level.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 09/08/2023 16:56:53
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Lads what is rule regarding temporary subs? Can a player play a full half of Senior Hurling and still play junior the week after?
paddybull (Wexford) - Posts: 49 - 09/08/2023 17:28:15
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