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Connacht Hurling Championship Without Galway

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Replying To Viking66:  "The divisional teams are all from areas of 1 county. These lads are spread out over many. And some of the lads likely live in Galway or Dublin studying or working. Where will they train and how often? They will also have their own county training also, plus challenge games etc."
What would you do to improve the provincial teams so or are you against giving players a platform to play at the highest level no matter what county they're from

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 11/01/2024 20:57:37    2519701

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I think this is a great idea. There needs to be a path to the top table for every young hurler, no matter what county he lives in.

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 187 - 11/01/2024 22:48:16    2519716

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Replying To GaA247:  "What would you do to improve the provincial teams so or are you against giving players a platform to play at the highest level no matter what county they're from"
I was a big fan of the railway cup. It was let go with a lack of promotion and advertising, as it was deemed the calendar was too full. Maybe as they said at the time the public lost interest but maybe that was due to it not being pushed. It should be brought back and backed. Time should be set aside for it somewhere, for training, a semi final and then a final. Both hurling and football.
A Connacht or Rest of Ulster hurling side won't get up to McCarthy standard, and will likely not get up to Joe Mac standard either, and that's not because of lack of talent, it's down to logistics and finances.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 12/01/2024 06:22:21    2519730

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Replying To Viking66:  "I was a big fan of the railway cup. It was let go with a lack of promotion and advertising, as it was deemed the calendar was too full. Maybe as they said at the time the public lost interest but maybe that was due to it not being pushed. It should be brought back and backed. Time should be set aside for it somewhere, for training, a semi final and then a final. Both hurling and football.
A Connacht or Rest of Ulster hurling side won't get up to McCarthy standard, and will likely not get up to Joe Mac standard either, and that's not because of lack of talent, it's down to logistics and finances."
How can a rest of ulster not get to joe mac standard??? Down on their own are at that level never mind with the best players from the other counties

And Antrim on their own are a level above the joe mac (although to be fair they would not be part of an all ulster team unless they drum from Liam McCarthy )

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 12/01/2024 14:19:39    2519842

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Replying To GaA247:  "How can a rest of ulster not get to joe mac standard??? Down on their own are at that level never mind with the best players from the other counties

And Antrim on their own are a level above the joe mac (although to be fair they would not be part of an all ulster team unless they drum from Liam McCarthy )"
Rest of Ulster can't include Down or Derry. They play in the Ulster championship as it is.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 12/01/2024 14:31:08    2519849

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Replying To GaA247:  "How can a rest of ulster not get to joe mac standard??? Down on their own are at that level never mind with the best players from the other counties

And Antrim on their own are a level above the joe mac (although to be fair they would not be part of an all ulster team unless they drum from Liam McCarthy )"
Rest of Ulster can't include Down or Derry. They play in the Ulster championship as it is. Or was.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 12/01/2024 14:31:25    2519850

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Replying To Viking66:  "Rest of Ulster can't include Down or Derry. They play in the Ulster championship as it is. Or was."
Well the ulster championship is another discussion. What my idea was to have the top 12 counties compete in Liam McCarthy (currently only Antrim competes) and all the non Liam McCarthy teams play with Ulster. So at the moment that would include down and Derry until they gain promotion.

So you would have effectively 16 teams in the Liam McCarthy: 12 counties and 4 provincial teams (I would actually have one for each province)

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 12/01/2024 19:19:19    2519899

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Replying To Viking66:  "I was a big fan of the railway cup. It was let go with a lack of promotion and advertising, as it was deemed the calendar was too full. Maybe as they said at the time the public lost interest but maybe that was due to it not being pushed. It should be brought back and backed. Time should be set aside for it somewhere, for training, a semi final and then a final. Both hurling and football.
A Connacht or Rest of Ulster hurling side won't get up to McCarthy standard, and will likely not get up to Joe Mac standard either, and that's not because of lack of talent, it's down to logistics and finances."
The Railway Cup is the only way to do it. A provincial side isn't feasible given the current structure. As for the Railway Cup, maybe have a rule stating that at least 40% of the squad must be picked from Joe McDonagh or below. Hold it during the league every 2 years.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 745 - 13/01/2024 00:59:54    2519941

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Replying To GaA247:  "Well the ulster championship is another discussion. What my idea was to have the top 12 counties compete in Liam McCarthy (currently only Antrim competes) and all the non Liam McCarthy teams play with Ulster. So at the moment that would include down and Derry until they gain promotion.

So you would have effectively 16 teams in the Liam McCarthy: 12 counties and 4 provincial teams (I would actually have one for each province)"
Training and funding would be the biggest obstacles. I'm not against your idea in principle btw. Just it's hard to see how it would be funded and where the provincial teams would train. Who would qualify for the Munster team though?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/01/2024 07:40:10    2519945

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Replying To Viking66:  "Rest of Ulster can't include Down or Derry. They play in the Ulster championship as it is. Or was."
So they rest of Ulster team would consist of players from Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Cavan & Fermanagh.

There would be nobody in them squads near Joe McDonagh cup standard bar Declan Coulter but he is near the end of his career now.

The late & great Damian Casey from Tyrone would of been at that level too but sadly is not with us anymore.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 806 - 13/01/2024 09:02:33    2519948

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Replying To Viking66:  "Training and funding would be the biggest obstacles. I'm not against your idea in principle btw. Just it's hard to see how it would be funded and where the provincial teams would train. Who would qualify for the Munster team though?"
Well to answer the munster question, at the moment kerry are the only team that would qualify for the team but similar to what I said with Galways development players in connacht, I would allow uncapped players from the 5 Liam McCarthy teams in Munster. The team would have the best Kerry hurlers and the rest of the team would be uncapped players.

And the funding would be an issue but I think it would be well worth it if the gaa invested into these teams as the provincial teams would only get stronger and more organised with each year passing. And if these teams have proper funding and training, there would be 4 more competitive teams to the usual competitive 8 or 9 counties. The more teams the better in my opinion

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 13/01/2024 16:26:11    2520017

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Replying To Past hurler:  "So they rest of Ulster team would consist of players from Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Cavan & Fermanagh.

There would be nobody in them squads near Joe McDonagh cup standard bar Declan Coulter but he is near the end of his career now.

The late & great Damian Casey from Tyrone would of been at that level too but sadly is not with us anymore."
That's a fair point but the players of thr weaker ulster counties only develop to the standard of their respective counties. If there was a provincial team for the weaker counties, the players would have higher targets to reach and that would make them better players. This would, as a result, make the county teams in Ulster as they would be better players.

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 13/01/2024 16:29:31    2520018

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Replying To Past hurler:  "So they rest of Ulster team would consist of players from Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal, Armagh, Cavan & Fermanagh.

There would be nobody in them squads near Joe McDonagh cup standard bar Declan Coulter but he is near the end of his career now.

The late & great Damian Casey from Tyrone would of been at that level too but sadly is not with us anymore."
If you include Derry and Down you would have 2 full panels just from those 2 counties who are already at Joe Mac level pretty much though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/01/2024 16:42:11    2520021

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Replying To GaA247:  "Well to answer the munster question, at the moment kerry are the only team that would qualify for the team but similar to what I said with Galways development players in connacht, I would allow uncapped players from the 5 Liam McCarthy teams in Munster. The team would have the best Kerry hurlers and the rest of the team would be uncapped players.

And the funding would be an issue but I think it would be well worth it if the gaa invested into these teams as the provincial teams would only get stronger and more organised with each year passing. And if these teams have proper funding and training, there would be 4 more competitive teams to the usual competitive 8 or 9 counties. The more teams the better in my opinion"
I agree the more teams the better. But you are probably talking at least 3 million euro per year travelling and expenses, if not more, basing that on the costs of single county intercounty set ups. Would that money not be better spent on hurling GPOs in areas where there are too few? If counties like Kerry, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Kildare, Carlow, Meath, Down, Derry and Antrim could spread hurling into the areas of the counties where very little if any is played it would help them bridge the gap to the Liam Mccarthy counties.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/01/2024 16:46:39    2520022

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Replying To Viking66:  "I agree the more teams the better. But you are probably talking at least 3 million euro per year travelling and expenses, if not more, basing that on the costs of single county intercounty set ups. Would that money not be better spent on hurling GPOs in areas where there are too few? If counties like Kerry, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Kildare, Carlow, Meath, Down, Derry and Antrim could spread hurling into the areas of the counties where very little if any is played it would help them bridge the gap to the Liam Mccarthy counties."
That's also a fair point. I actually think there will always be a gap between the tier 1 counties and the rest simply because there are way more players and clubs to pick from.
For example take Derry, they may not be in the All-Ireland SHC anymore but at the end of the day there are only 8 teams in the Derry championships….there's over 200 in Cork.
Realistically Derry (8 teams) would be a small division in Cork (most divisions would have about 20 teams). And my point is that Derry, along with the other counties in ulster would make a combined team in Ulster that may be competitive with say Cork for example. I know Cork only just beat Antrim a couple years ago but the other 8 counties have an extremely difficult task to get up to a higher level

Teams in county championships
Cork 192
Antrim 49
Down 14
Donegal 13
Armagh 11
Derry 8
Monaghan 7
Tyrone 4
Cavan 3
Fermanagh 3


Ulster have only 112 hurling teams, which is still a smaller pick than a few tier 1 counties (this includes Antrim btw)

So to answer your question, I think maybe investing in the provincial teams might be worth a shot as there is only so much you can do with investment with counties like Derry who have only 8 teams.

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 13/01/2024 17:39:03    2520029

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Replying To GaA247:  "That's also a fair point. I actually think there will always be a gap between the tier 1 counties and the rest simply because there are way more players and clubs to pick from.
For example take Derry, they may not be in the All-Ireland SHC anymore but at the end of the day there are only 8 teams in the Derry championships….there's over 200 in Cork.
Realistically Derry (8 teams) would be a small division in Cork (most divisions would have about 20 teams). And my point is that Derry, along with the other counties in ulster would make a combined team in Ulster that may be competitive with say Cork for example. I know Cork only just beat Antrim a couple years ago but the other 8 counties have an extremely difficult task to get up to a higher level

Teams in county championships
Cork 192
Antrim 49
Down 14
Donegal 13
Armagh 11
Derry 8
Monaghan 7
Tyrone 4
Cavan 3
Fermanagh 3


Ulster have only 112 hurling teams, which is still a smaller pick than a few tier 1 counties (this includes Antrim btw)

So to answer your question, I think maybe investing in the provincial teams might be worth a shot as there is only so much you can do with investment with counties like Derry who have only 8 teams."
True improvement isn't going to happen in any short term, but if it never starts it will never happen. I can't see the provincial councils putting a million each per year into a provincial team though, which is probably what it would cost to get the provincial teams competitive.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 13/01/2024 18:56:00    2520045

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Replying To Viking66:  "True improvement isn't going to happen in any short term, but if it never starts it will never happen. I can't see the provincial councils putting a million each per year into a provincial team though, which is probably what it would cost to get the provincial teams competitive."
If your a top 5 hurler in the country but you were from somewhere like Fermanagh, you effectively cannot compete in the Liam McCarthy. we will have to write to jp to ask for funding for another 4 teams!

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 13/01/2024 21:26:55    2520064

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Replying To GaA247:  "If your a top 5 hurler in the country but you were from somewhere like Fermanagh, you effectively cannot compete in the Liam McCarthy. we will have to write to jp to ask for funding for another 4 teams!"
No harm to anyone from Fermanagh, but would you reach that level hurling in Fermanagh? I could say same about most Dubs by the way.

If you watched the intermediate final, there was gulf in class. Castlelyons had some outstanding individuals, but they were mostly that split second in execution of everything to the Kilkenny lads, Shooting was woeful.

And they're Cork! One of elite, but their standards have dropped, and also proves contrary to their own myth that hurling is not genetic. The Kilkenny fellas are good because they are used to playing to a high standard from early age. You can't compensate for that.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 13/01/2024 23:05:22    2520072

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "No harm to anyone from Fermanagh, but would you reach that level hurling in Fermanagh? I could say same about most Dubs by the way.

If you watched the intermediate final, there was gulf in class. Castlelyons had some outstanding individuals, but they were mostly that split second in execution of everything to the Kilkenny lads, Shooting was woeful.

And they're Cork! One of elite, but their standards have dropped, and also proves contrary to their own myth that hurling is not genetic. The Kilkenny fellas are good because they are used to playing to a high standard from early age. You can't compensate for that."
That's true but the reason that Kilkenny won today is a grading issue. Kilkenny should regrade more clubs to senior, Kerry are the same in football. Fair play to them nonetheless and that's a different discussion

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 13/01/2024 23:39:13    2520073

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Replying To GaA247:  "That's true but the reason that Kilkenny won today is a grading issue. Kilkenny should regrade more clubs to senior, Kerry are the same in football. Fair play to them nonetheless and that's a different discussion"
Were some of the sides that finished above Castlelyons not divisional ones? And therefore not eligible for provincial championship games? And also as a percentage of number of teams in the county the 2 Cork teams would be actually ranked higher than their Kilkenny opponents, as Cork have more than twice as many teams?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 14/01/2024 10:38:23    2520090

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