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Connacht Hurling Championship Without Galway

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I think an Ulster, Connacht and Leinster hurling championship could be run among the 15 counties not competing in the All-Ireland SHC or Joe McDonagh Cup. Alternatively you could follow the model currently used for the pre-season tournments (Connacht SHL and McGurk Cup) where Longford compete in Connacht and Louth in Ulster.

Báireoir (Dublin) - Posts: 80 - 04/06/2023 11:52:07    2483886

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The Ring, Rackard and Meagher cups finished yesterday. An Ulster District and a Connacht-Leinster District could enter as amalgamations. The winners yesterday deserve a week of celebrating. An Ulster District versus Connacht-Leinster District could be a straight Intermediate final. A day out in Croke Park in recognition of the top players at that level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8284 - 04/06/2023 13:12:27    2483898

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The Ring, Rackard and Meagher cups finished yesterday. An Ulster District and a Connacht-Leinster District could enter as amalgamations. The winners yesterday deserve a week of celebrating. An Ulster District versus Connacht-Leinster District could be a straight Intermediate final. A day out in Croke Park in recognition of the top players at that level."
Still no route to Liam McCarthy though for good individual players in weaker counties. Also, long distance between North Mayo and South Wicklow to meet for some training etc. Separate Leinster and Connacht teams would be more viable. Maybe add an Exiles XV to make it 4 teams. Either round robin or knock-outs with top-2 getting crack at winner of McDonagh finalist or 3rd placed tier 1 team would be a greater recognition…

Observer23 (UK) - Posts: 17 - 04/06/2023 17:09:40    2483969

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Replying To Observer23:  "Still no route to Liam McCarthy though for good individual players in weaker counties. Also, long distance between North Mayo and South Wicklow to meet for some training etc. Separate Leinster and Connacht teams would be more viable. Maybe add an Exiles XV to make it 4 teams. Either round robin or knock-outs with top-2 getting crack at winner of McDonagh finalist or 3rd placed tier 1 team would be a greater recognition…"
How is there no route? Of course there is they win the championships to move up?

This obsession with wanting everyone to play at the top grade doesn't do anything to promote the game as much as people might think. Just putting teams in championships for the sake of it won't work.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 05/06/2023 11:02:10    2484137

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Replying To oneoff:  "How is there no route? Of course there is they win the championships to move up?

This obsession with wanting everyone to play at the top grade doesn't do anything to promote the game as much as people might think. Just putting teams in championships for the sake of it won't work."
You HAVE to give players a chance to play at the top level. Just putting teams in championships doesn't always work but this way would. Mayo for example wouldnt be thrown in to the Liam McCarthy as you said but combine them with the other connacht teams except galway and they should be a match for the likes of Dublin and Antrim if run correctly

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 05/06/2023 17:23:34    2484198

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Replying To oneoff:  "How is there no route? Of course there is they win the championships to move up?

This obsession with wanting everyone to play at the top grade doesn't do anything to promote the game as much as people might think. Just putting teams in championships for the sake of it won't work."
I don't want everyone playing at the top grade only the very good players in the weaker counties to have a chance of it. Do you really think that any team is going to emerge from Ring/Rackard etc and seriously challenge for the Liam McCarthy in the next 30 years…? I don't think so. All the while, good players (potentially very good players go by the wayside all because there's not enough of them in a given county to seriously make inroads). Hurling is the best sport in the world, yet hardly anyone outside of a few counties in Ireland plays it to an elite level. Why does it not catch on? Because there's not a realistic route to an elite level for players coming from counties outside of the chosen few… Bringing good players together could work if there's commitment and vision… The Fitzgibbon works well at third level and there, players from different counties are brought together…

Observer23 (UK) - Posts: 17 - 05/06/2023 19:07:30    2484213

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You would be better off with a Connacht club championship with the top clubs in each county

Ballyhaunis, Castledar, Tooreen, Carrick, Cluainín Iomáint, Easkey, Naoimh Eoin, Four Roads, Padraig Pearses, Athleague, Tremane, Oran

You could have a junior championship with weaker/developing clubs
St Dominic's, Roscommon Gaels, Fuerty, Ballina, Belmullet, Claremorris, Ballyvary, Westport, Calry, Strandhill, Tourlestrane, Castleconnor, Tubercurry, St Mary's, Gortletteragh, Ballinamore,

They could then play off down to 4 teams and play against the top 4 from Galway for the Connacht intermediate title.

If a non Galway team won it, they could then get into the Galway senior championship.

If they started this at underage you would have a development pathway for young players, eventually leading to better senior players.

The alternative is to set up regional clubs and let them all into the Galway championship
You could have
Connacht NW - Castleconnor, Easkey, Tubercurry, Ballina, Belmullet
Mayo MW - Westport, Castlebar, Ballyvary, Claremorris
Mayo SE - Toreen, Ballyhaunis,
Sligo Leitrim N - St Mary's, Calry, Strandhill, Tourlestrane, Cluainín Iomáint, Naoimh Eoin
Leitrim Roscommon N - Carrick, Gortletteragh, Ballinamore, Oran, Fuerty, Roscommon Gaels, Tremane
Roscommon South - St Dominic's, Athleague, Four Roads, Padraig Pearses

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 05/06/2023 22:28:52    2484237

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Replying To GaA247:  "You HAVE to give players a chance to play at the top level. Just putting teams in championships doesn't always work but this way would. Mayo for example wouldnt be thrown in to the Liam McCarthy as you said but combine them with the other connacht teams except galway and they should be a match for the likes of Dublin and Antrim if run correctly"
No you don't have to do give anyone anything at all.

Take Ulster for example in this idea.

Is it with or without Antrim? If it's with Antrim it becomes all about them and if it's without what sort of team is there going to be? As I've said where is an Ulster team going to train? How often are they realistically going to be able to train?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 06/06/2023 07:35:11    2484259

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Replying To GaA247:  "You HAVE to give players a chance to play at the top level. Just putting teams in championships doesn't always work but this way would. Mayo for example wouldnt be thrown in to the Liam McCarthy as you said but combine them with the other connacht teams except galway and they should be a match for the likes of Dublin and Antrim if run correctly"
I think there's quite a gulf between Dublin & Antrim and the four footballing counties of Connacht. Dublin and Antrim clubs have played at the highest level in hurling. The GAA historically is based on local loyalty, village, parish, club. County loyalty was a later development. Then we had an inter provincial competition which was discontinued. Now we have an Ulster and a Connacht team playing in what's misnamed the Leinster championship and Kerry invited there too. To add to the confusion you're suggesting 4 teams representing Connacht to play two counties, one from Leinster and the other from Ulster. Sounds positively confusing! There are simpler ways to tweak the system.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 06/06/2023 07:51:25    2484261

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Replying To baire:  "I think there's quite a gulf between Dublin & Antrim and the four footballing counties of Connacht. Dublin and Antrim clubs have played at the highest level in hurling. The GAA historically is based on local loyalty, village, parish, club. County loyalty was a later development. Then we had an inter provincial competition which was discontinued. Now we have an Ulster and a Connacht team playing in what's misnamed the Leinster championship and Kerry invited there too. To add to the confusion you're suggesting 4 teams representing Connacht to play two counties, one from Leinster and the other from Ulster. Sounds positively confusing! There are simpler ways to tweak the system."
Twisting my words. I never said they would play them I suggested if the provincial teams were properly run they could get to a similar level to Antrim etc

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 06/06/2023 13:12:51    2484398

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Replying To oneoff:  "No you don't have to do give anyone anything at all.

Take Ulster for example in this idea.

Is it with or without Antrim? If it's with Antrim it becomes all about them and if it's without what sort of team is there going to be? As I've said where is an Ulster team going to train? How often are they realistically going to be able to train?"
I'd be thinking if counties are in Joe McDonagh, they have a route to take part in Liam McCarthy in that year, so Antrim and Down would be left separate. Somewhere like Omagh would be an hour away from most places in the rest of Ulster…
For Connacht, somewhere like Ballaghaderreen.
For Leinster, somewhere like Newbridge or Enfield.
The Exiles' team would have most difficulty but a reminder that it would be training for 4-7 weeks so there would be ways around it…

Observer23 (UK) - Posts: 17 - 06/06/2023 13:23:31    2484401

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Replying To Observer23:  "I'd be thinking if counties are in Joe McDonagh, they have a route to take part in Liam McCarthy in that year, so Antrim and Down would be left separate. Somewhere like Omagh would be an hour away from most places in the rest of Ulster…
For Connacht, somewhere like Ballaghaderreen.
For Leinster, somewhere like Newbridge or Enfield.
The Exiles' team would have most difficulty but a reminder that it would be training for 4-7 weeks so there would be ways around it…"
But they do if they make it to the McDonagh Cup final both the winners and runners up.

Having the intermediate All-Ireland would imo make more sense. Because in reality that's the level the likes of Roscommon, Mayo etc are at. Even with all of Connacht together they'd still be nowhere close to the level needed.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1472 - 06/06/2023 17:56:08    2484525

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Replying To GaA247:  "Twisting my words. I never said they would play them I suggested if the provincial teams were properly run they could get to a similar level to Antrim etc"
You're right, I misread it. Lo siento.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 06/06/2023 18:39:27    2484535

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Replying To oneoff:  "But they do if they make it to the McDonagh Cup final both the winners and runners up.

Having the intermediate All-Ireland would imo make more sense. Because in reality that's the level the likes of Roscommon, Mayo etc are at. Even with all of Connacht together they'd still be nowhere close to the level needed."
Well my idea for the Connacht team competing in the Liam McCarthy Cup would be to give players from weaker counties a chance to test themselves against senior teams

I think if enough interest is shown they would have a good team

I would allow up to 6 uncapped Galway players to be eligible for the team and I would allow the British counties to play with the team if they are interested.


For example the squad of 35 could be made up of…..

6 Roscommon players
5 Mayo players
5 Sligo players
3 Leitrim players

6 London players
2 Warwickshire players
2 Lancashire players

6 Galway development players


Now surely this team are capable of defeating the likes of Antrim and Westmeath for starters?

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 11/01/2024 02:18:37    2519523

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Replying To GaA247:  "Well my idea for the Connacht team competing in the Liam McCarthy Cup would be to give players from weaker counties a chance to test themselves against senior teams

I think if enough interest is shown they would have a good team

I would allow up to 6 uncapped Galway players to be eligible for the team and I would allow the British counties to play with the team if they are interested.


For example the squad of 35 could be made up of…..

6 Roscommon players
5 Mayo players
5 Sligo players
3 Leitrim players

6 London players
2 Warwickshire players
2 Lancashire players

6 Galway development players


Now surely this team are capable of defeating the likes of Antrim and Westmeath for starters?"
They might given a proper pre season, training, challenge games etc. But who would pay for that?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/01/2024 08:39:09    2519532

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Replying To GaA247:  "Well my idea for the Connacht team competing in the Liam McCarthy Cup would be to give players from weaker counties a chance to test themselves against senior teams

I think if enough interest is shown they would have a good team

I would allow up to 6 uncapped Galway players to be eligible for the team and I would allow the British counties to play with the team if they are interested.


For example the squad of 35 could be made up of…..

6 Roscommon players
5 Mayo players
5 Sligo players
3 Leitrim players

6 London players
2 Warwickshire players
2 Lancashire players

6 Galway development players


Now surely this team are capable of defeating the likes of Antrim and Westmeath for starters?"
It wouldn't be a non Galway team if there were 6 Galway lads on it, most of whom probably be starters!

Besides, I would fancy Westies and Antrim to beat such a selection pretty handily. Two teams that have beaten or drawn with Wexford and Dublin in championship last two years are at much higher level, unfortunately.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 11/01/2024 08:58:53    2519536

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "It wouldn't be a non Galway team if there were 6 Galway lads on it, most of whom probably be starters!

Besides, I would fancy Westies and Antrim to beat such a selection pretty handily. Two teams that have beaten or drawn with Wexford and Dublin in championship last two years are at much higher level, unfortunately."
It doesn't have to be a non galway team and they would be starters most likely. And also it wasn't so long ago when the likes of London Mayo and Roscommon were in the same grade as Antrim (Christy Ring Cup)

Antrim 2-14 - 1-12 Roscommon

This was the score in the last championship meeting between Antrim and Roscommon and I know Antrim have improved since but the best players from the 4 weaker counties and London and 6 uncapped Galway players would beat Antrim

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 11/01/2024 14:00:57    2519615

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Replying To GaA247:  "It doesn't have to be a non galway team and they would be starters most likely. And also it wasn't so long ago when the likes of London Mayo and Roscommon were in the same grade as Antrim (Christy Ring Cup)

Antrim 2-14 - 1-12 Roscommon

This was the score in the last championship meeting between Antrim and Roscommon and I know Antrim have improved since but the best players from the 4 weaker counties and London and 6 uncapped Galway players would beat Antrim"
Antrim suffered many years of their best players not all playing for the county. That has changed a good bit now. Cork only just beat Antrim the last time they met in the championship and that's only 2 years ago in a knockout game. They also beat Clare in the League only a few years ago.
But in any case as I said in my previous post if you just lump a group of players together for a game they aren't going to beat any decent team who has done a whole preseason of training and championship games.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/01/2024 15:16:38    2519641

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Replying To Viking66:  "Antrim suffered many years of their best players not all playing for the county. That has changed a good bit now. Cork only just beat Antrim the last time they met in the championship and that's only 2 years ago in a knockout game. They also beat Clare in the League only a few years ago.
But in any case as I said in my previous post if you just lump a group of players together for a game they aren't going to beat any decent team who has done a whole preseason of training and championship games."
It happens in the Cork and Kerry championships and they also have their club training.

The divisional teams are well organised and often win championships so it can be done

GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 11/01/2024 17:30:06    2519672

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Replying To GaA247:  "It happens in the Cork and Kerry championships and they also have their club training.

The divisional teams are well organised and often win championships so it can be done"
The divisional teams are all from areas of 1 county. These lads are spread out over many. And some of the lads likely live in Galway or Dublin studying or working. Where will they train and how often? They will also have their own county training also, plus challenge games etc.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 11/01/2024 20:35:21    2519698

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