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Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win.
LottoPlus (Kilkenny) - Posts: 54 - 23/05/2023 15:04:35
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." Not sure if you're joking but I would do away with the league,start with the provincial championship, something for winning it and then into the all Ireland championship, maybe the winners of the provincial get home advantage.
cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 775 - 23/05/2023 15:32:48
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Absolutely no doubt that the Munster Championship is more intense and more competitive than the Leinster.
But by dissolving the Leinster Championship, you'd have to dissolve the Munster too, and instead have two "All-Ireland" groups of six, in much the same way as camogie operates.
What appetite is there for dissolving the Munster Hurling Championship?
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 23/05/2023 15:35:19
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." A lot of time put into a windup post. Well done
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 23/05/2023 15:38:04
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." Firstly we aren't relegated yet ?!! We only have to beat a team that's only beaten us once over 70 minutes in a championship game since 2016, and that by only a point in 2018, and we stay up.
Kilkenny are now already the only team to qualify out of Leinster from all the Round Robins and there have only been 4 of them. And that's due in large part because they are only really a half GAA county. Not a real whole one. Look back over history and hurling fortunes ebb and flow.
Rather than talk ##### about changes to suit the elite why not think up some ideas to get the mid tier counties up competing again? Offaly, Laois and Kerry have won hurling All Irelands before. Last years Leinster minor final was between Laois and Offaly. Westmeath beat Kilkenny at u21 in 2016. Kildare beat us at u20 in 2021. Offaly are the current Leinster u20 champions after beating Galway, Dublin and us, and might be AI champions if they beat Cork. Of course you didn't get to play them this year because your lads lost twice to us earlier in the Leinster u20 championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 23/05/2023 15:56:35
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." Firstly we aren't relegated yet ?!! We only have to beat a team that's only beaten us once over 70 minutes in a championship game since 2016, and that by only a point in 2018, and we stay up.
Kilkenny are now already the only team to qualify out of Leinster from all the Round Robins and there have only been 4 of them. And that's due in large part because they are only really a half GAA county. Not a real whole one. Look back over history and hurling fortunes ebb and flow.
Rather than talk ##### about changes to suit the elite why not think up some ideas to get the mid tier counties up competing again? Offaly, Laois and Kerry have won hurling All Irelands before. Last years Leinster minor final was between Laois and Offaly. Westmeath beat Kilkenny at u21 in 2016. Kildare beat us at u20 in 2021. Offaly are the current Leinster u20 champions after beating Galway, Dublin and us, and might be AI champions if they beat Cork. Of course you didn't get to play them this year because your lads lost twice to us earlier in the Leinster u20 championship.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 23/05/2023 15:57:22
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It's hilarious to see the amount of sneering directed at Leinster considering the Leinster championship has been just as competitive as Munster since the round robin was introduced. It's been a great Munster championship and so suddenly Leinster has become worthless.
2018 Munster:
Cork 6 pts
Clare 6 pts
Limerick 5 pts
Tippery 2 pts
Waterford 1 pt
2018 Leinster:
Galway 8 pts
Kilkenny 6 pts
Wexford 4 pts
Dublin 2 pts
Offaly 0 pts
2019 Munster:
Tipperary 8 pts
Limerick 4 pts
Cork 4 pts
Clare 4 pts
Waterford 0 pts
2019 Leinster:
Kilkenny 5 pts
Wexford 5 pts
Dublin 5 pts
Galway 5 pts
2022 Munster:
Clare 7 pts
Limerick 7 pts
Cork 4 pts
Waterford 2 pts
Tipperary 0 pts
2022 Leinster:
Galway 9 pts
Kilkenny 6pts
Wexford 6 pts
Dublin 6 pts
Westmeath 3 pts
2023 Munster
Clare 6 pts
Tipperary 4 pts
Cork 3 pts
Limerick 3 pts
Waterford 0 pts
2023 Leinster
Kilkenny 7 pts
Galway 7 pts
Dublin 5 pts
Westmeath 2 pts
Wexford 2 pts
Antrim 1 pt
Look at these tables and tell me that Leinster isn't competitive. Yes, there are only 2 top teams in Leinster currently, compared with 4 in Munster. But Leinster has an extra game, relegation, and a pathway for second tier teams to progress. What is Munster doing to help the progression of second tier counties?
Báireoir (Dublin) - Posts: 80 - 24/05/2023 11:36:56
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." I get what your saying but the All Ireland is still the one that counts. That said I do think the Munster Championship is a far better occasion than an all Ireland final.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1898 - 24/05/2023 15:14:58
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There's no way that a Munster Hurling Final is a better prize than the All-Ireland. However the imbalance between the provinces is an issue for hurling. The challenging aspect is that while I, and everyone else from Munster adores the Munster Championship and all it brings, it might not exactly benefit the Munster Teams in the long run compared to Kilkenny and Galway who aren't overly exerted by the Leinster Championship. This might change however if Wexford can get their house in order, Dublin continue to improve under Donohue and this talented Offaly U20 team can translate to Senior. It's not the just at Senior this is an issue though, the same problem is faced by the Munster Schools in the Harty Cup.
Frontier1000 (Cork) - Posts: 60 - 24/05/2023 15:51:40
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Replying To LottoPlus: "Looking at the Leinster hurling championship I think it should it be dissolved altogether. Munster hurling teams have to place 4 hard championship matches before the province, Leinster at most there are two hard matches teams. Galway (Connaught team) Kilkenny and Dublin (used to be Wexford) are the only three teams in Leinster. So you win one of those 2 games and you are in the Leinster final. A complete Joke. Either Limerick or Cork will be out of the championship next weekend and they are better that anything that Leinster have to offer. Like, I am sorry but Westmeath (although a great win against Wexford) Antrim, Next year Offaly or Carlow will come in and replace Wexford. Three teams that will get whipped by Galway and Kilkenny anyway. The other three will be fight relegation. Put the top three teams in with Munster and play the all ireland in a league basis. Top 4 qualify for semi final and bottom 4 relegation. At least then the competition is fair. The Munster championship is more value that any all ireland because it is harder to win." I think Limerick would happily win 4 in a row this year instead of just having another Munster title.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 24/05/2023 15:56:56
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Replying To Bon: "I get what your saying but the All Ireland is still the one that counts. That said I do think the Munster Championship is a far better occasion than an all Ireland final." The Munster championship isn't 'an occasion' at all. Waterford don't even have a home pitch ffs.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3410 - 24/05/2023 15:58:09
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Not even close. It's a provincial medal at the end of the day. I think the round Robin has turned this into more a debate than it ever was. When you could win Munster in two games there was never really this comparison with Leinster. Especially when Galway, Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin all going well. It's only since there's so many more games of equal pairings in Munster with the round Robin that it's become an issue.
I don't think too many of the 2013 Clare lads will be wishing they won Munster instead of all Ireland, by same token I'd say if you asked Cork 2017/18 would they rather thir munster medals or all Ireland's they'd say all Ireland's. Provincals are grand but there's only one champioship medal that everyone can win and matters in the grand scheme of medals and that's Celtics crosses. Waterford of the 00s have bucket full of Munsters but no all Ireland. Medals are great and all and I wouldn't say a lad has a bad career just because he doesn't have medals but if you had to pick one, it's a Celtic cross all day. It's what separates good teams from great teams.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 258 - 24/05/2023 16:04:02
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Replying To Frontier1000: "There's no way that a Munster Hurling Final is a better prize than the All-Ireland. However the imbalance between the provinces is an issue for hurling. The challenging aspect is that while I, and everyone else from Munster adores the Munster Championship and all it brings, it might not exactly benefit the Munster Teams in the long run compared to Kilkenny and Galway who aren't overly exerted by the Leinster Championship. This might change however if Wexford can get their house in order, Dublin continue to improve under Donohue and this talented Offaly U20 team can translate to Senior. It's not the just at Senior this is an issue though, the same problem is faced by the Munster Schools in the Harty Cup." If a Munster team don't win all Ireland, excuse will be to many hard games in Munster championship. If a Leinster team don't win the all Ireland excuse will be not enough hard games in lenister championship.
Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 126 - 24/05/2023 16:09:56
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Replying To Viking66: "Firstly we aren't relegated yet ?!! We only have to beat a team that's only beaten us once over 70 minutes in a championship game since 2016, and that by only a point in 2018, and we stay up.
Kilkenny are now already the only team to qualify out of Leinster from all the Round Robins and there have only been 4 of them. And that's due in large part because they are only really a half GAA county. Not a real whole one. Look back over history and hurling fortunes ebb and flow.
Rather than talk ##### about changes to suit the elite why not think up some ideas to get the mid tier counties up competing again? Offaly, Laois and Kerry have won hurling All Irelands before. Last years Leinster minor final was between Laois and Offaly. Westmeath beat Kilkenny at u21 in 2016. Kildare beat us at u20 in 2021. Offaly are the current Leinster u20 champions after beating Galway, Dublin and us, and might be AI champions if they beat Cork. Of course you didn't get to play them this year because your lads lost twice to us earlier in the Leinster u20 championship." Too much doom and gloom about Leinster. A lot of progress is being made at underage level and hopefully it comes through at senior. And then you've got Kildare as well. Even going beyond Leinster. The Christy Ring was competitive this year. Derry and Sligo have made huge strides. My own county seems to have their hurling side in order. And this is with a limited number of clubs.
As for ideas. The Hurling Development Manager spot should be filled. The GAA should set aside grants specifically for developing hurling in these counties. Liam Griffin's motion had good intentions but there needs to be a financial incentive. Lastly fix the U20 structure. The Celtic Challenge has been great. Perhaps it is time for that to be expanded to U20 level or at least have a solid structure in place for all 15 counties below Leinster/Munster.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 24/05/2023 16:10:44
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Why are Kerry barred from participating in Munster? They beat Waterford 30 years ago yesterday in the Munster championship and who knows the way Waterford are playing currently they could have a chance of doing it again a bit like Westmeath drawing against Wexford last year and beating them this year or Antrim drawing with Dublin this year.
tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3314 - 24/05/2023 16:11:46
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Replying To Frontier1000: "There's no way that a Munster Hurling Final is a better prize than the All-Ireland. However the imbalance between the provinces is an issue for hurling. The challenging aspect is that while I, and everyone else from Munster adores the Munster Championship and all it brings, it might not exactly benefit the Munster Teams in the long run compared to Kilkenny and Galway who aren't overly exerted by the Leinster Championship. This might change however if Wexford can get their house in order, Dublin continue to improve under Donohue and this talented Offaly U20 team can translate to Senior. It's not the just at Senior this is an issue though, the same problem is faced by the Munster Schools in the Harty Cup." I don't see how Galway and Kilkenny aren't overly exerted. They have to play 1 more game than the Munster counties. So they have 1 less rest week. They still have to play their full teams and play hard, if they don't what happened last week to us might happen to them. Yes the Munster counties have to play 4 hard games on paper, though every year in reality there's been a round robin at least one county that has performed badly, or not so well.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 24/05/2023 17:01:05
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Munster is a tough Championship. Leinster however carries the more threat of relegation. On balance it is fair. Munster are playing without fear of relegation.
Leinster lacks the bite of championship. A pundit mentioned he went to Kilkenny v Dublin and there was no sense of a championship atmosphere in and around going to the ground. Very little traffic or anything.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7821 - 24/05/2023 17:25:41
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There is no way any provincial championship comes close to the prestige of winning an All-Ireland. I would give away half of what we have just for one more All-Ireland.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 24/05/2023 21:46:45
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Replying To Rolo2010: "Too much doom and gloom about Leinster. A lot of progress is being made at underage level and hopefully it comes through at senior. And then you've got Kildare as well. Even going beyond Leinster. The Christy Ring was competitive this year. Derry and Sligo have made huge strides. My own county seems to have their hurling side in order. And this is with a limited number of clubs.
As for ideas. The Hurling Development Manager spot should be filled. The GAA should set aside grants specifically for developing hurling in these counties. Liam Griffin's motion had good intentions but there needs to be a financial incentive. Lastly fix the U20 structure. The Celtic Challenge has been great. Perhaps it is time for that to be expanded to U20 level or at least have a solid structure in place for all 15 counties below Leinster/Munster." Good ideas there
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 24/05/2023 22:08:53
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Replying To Viking66: "I don't see how Galway and Kilkenny aren't overly exerted. They have to play 1 more game than the Munster counties. So they have 1 less rest week. They still have to play their full teams and play hard, if they don't what happened last week to us might happen to them. Yes the Munster counties have to play 4 hard games on paper, though every year in reality there's been a round robin at least one county that has performed badly, or not so well." It's chalk and cheese, in Munster it's war in every game and is a bear pit, they are killing one and other, while Galway, Kilkenny and Dublin are really untested and can nearly plan their season to peak alot later, while limerick and the others in Munster are nearly half dead, but this 2023 championship has to be the best provincial championship ever!
ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 24/05/2023 22:14:57
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