National Forum

Donal O'Gs Comments On Football In General And The TC In Particular

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To anotheralias:  "Absolutely no question that this weekend was a super weekend for the GAA. There is no question that the hurling was excellent entertainment. But the football was enjoyable this weekend too , although the absence of knock out element did detract a little from the excitement. But 4 x Sam Maguire games with a combined points difference of 3 ( 2 draws , 1 x 1 point, 1 x 2 points) . Also 2 x cracking minor games on TG4, particularly the Ulster final.
The bottom line is that there is room in the GAA community for both codes , and they are great products.
Different people have different personal preferences , and that's fine too. But we should try not to push our personal preferences on others. I much prefer football to watch, but I also enjoy hurling and I can see why many people prefer hurling. But you can praise the hurling without knocking football , and vice verse."
Absolutely,, and I do like my football btw, follow both codes, but there seems to be an attitude from football people that hurling people are contemptuous towards football, or that some hurling counties don't allow football to develop, when in fact looking at the country on the whole, hurling is a bigger victim of this sporting snobbery than football.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 29/05/2023 14:23:26    2482575

Link

Replying To anotheralias:  "Absolutely no question that this weekend was a super weekend for the GAA. There is no question that the hurling was excellent entertainment. But the football was enjoyable this weekend too , although the absence of knock out element did detract a little from the excitement. But 4 x Sam Maguire games with a combined points difference of 3 ( 2 draws , 1 x 1 point, 1 x 2 points) . Also 2 x cracking minor games on TG4, particularly the Ulster final.
The bottom line is that there is room in the GAA community for both codes , and they are great products.
Different people have different personal preferences , and that's fine too. But we should try not to push our personal preferences on others. I much prefer football to watch, but I also enjoy hurling and I can see why many people prefer hurling. But you can praise the hurling without knocking football , and vice verse."
Good post lad

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12792 - 29/05/2023 14:30:45    2482590

Link

Replying To anotheralias:  "Absolutely no question that this weekend was a super weekend for the GAA. There is no question that the hurling was excellent entertainment. But the football was enjoyable this weekend too , although the absence of knock out element did detract a little from the excitement. But 4 x Sam Maguire games with a combined points difference of 3 ( 2 draws , 1 x 1 point, 1 x 2 points) . Also 2 x cracking minor games on TG4, particularly the Ulster final.
The bottom line is that there is room in the GAA community for both codes , and they are great products.
Different people have different personal preferences , and that's fine too. But we should try not to push our personal preferences on others. I much prefer football to watch, but I also enjoy hurling and I can see why many people prefer hurling. But you can praise the hurling without knocking football , and vice verse."
Great post. You're absolutely correct. What a weekend we had. Both sports were terrific. We are blessed to have two great games. I travelled to Navan and whilst I was disappointed I was also thoroughly entertained. Three teams qualifying from the groups works both ways. Whilst the degree of jeopardy is reduced the degree of opportunity for the lower ranked teams is increased. We gave it a great shot on Saturday against Cork as did Westmeath in Armagh. Sligo drew with Kildare and Clare will give it a go in Monaghan next weekend. Swings and roundabouts I suppose. I'm really looking forward to next weekend.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6048 - 29/05/2023 14:32:05    2482592

Link

Replying To anotheralias:  "Absolutely no question that this weekend was a super weekend for the GAA. There is no question that the hurling was excellent entertainment. But the football was enjoyable this weekend too , although the absence of knock out element did detract a little from the excitement. But 4 x Sam Maguire games with a combined points difference of 3 ( 2 draws , 1 x 1 point, 1 x 2 points) . Also 2 x cracking minor games on TG4, particularly the Ulster final.
The bottom line is that there is room in the GAA community for both codes , and they are great products.
Different people have different personal preferences , and that's fine too. But we should try not to push our personal preferences on others. I much prefer football to watch, but I also enjoy hurling and I can see why many people prefer hurling. But you can praise the hurling without knocking football , and vice verse."
Gaelic football peaked in the 2000's before Jim McGuiness destroyed it. Only Dublin, Mayo and Kerry play anything like a full pitch system, letting their defenders do their work without pulling half a team back to cover.

Today's hurling has little or no contests for possession at all. Everyone just shooting from the halfway line. Galway were shooting from their own 45 against Dublin the other day. Not a single ball dropped into the full forward line in the 2nd half. Give me Offaly v Clare in the 90's any day.

At least football is seeing the return of the full forward (Rian O Neill, A O Shea, Clifford, D Comer, Con O Callaghan etc) after 10 years of being marked by 3 lads.

A modern Hurling full forward spends his hour watching the ball get belted over his head hoping one might hit the post and break to him.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1163 - 30/05/2023 06:12:18    2482771

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Gaelic football peaked in the 2000's before Jim McGuiness destroyed it. Only Dublin, Mayo and Kerry play anything like a full pitch system, letting their defenders do their work without pulling half a team back to cover.

Today's hurling has little or no contests for possession at all. Everyone just shooting from the halfway line. Galway were shooting from their own 45 against Dublin the other day. Not a single ball dropped into the full forward line in the 2nd half. Give me Offaly v Clare in the 90's any day.

At least football is seeing the return of the full forward (Rian O Neill, A O Shea, Clifford, D Comer, Con O Callaghan etc) after 10 years of being marked by 3 lads.

A modern Hurling full forward spends his hour watching the ball get belted over his head hoping one might hit the post and break to him."
Embarrassing comment on Mcguinness. First of all defensive systems were not created by him and secondly maybe check what Donegal were scoring in each game under his watch.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7929 - 30/05/2023 15:15:29    2482938

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Embarrassing comment on Mcguinness. First of all defensive systems were not created by him and secondly maybe check what Donegal were scoring in each game under his watch."
Watch the matches again. Maybe you like 14 men in their own half waiting for the opposition to attack. Running back before the ball is even kicked out.

Donegal lost 06 to 08 against Dublin in 2011, had 11 scores v Antrim and 12 scores v Derry
They scored 12 scores v Tyrone, 13 v Kerry, 13 v Mayo in 2012
In 2013, they scored 12 scores against Down and Tyrone, 7 against Monaghan, 14 v Laois, 11 v Mayo
In 2014, it was 12 v Derry, 15 v Monaghan , 13 v Armagh, 12 V Kerry

The only high scoring match they had against a top team was the semi v Dublin in 2014, where Dublin should have been 10 points up at half time if they took their goal chances.

Then go watch some Donegal club football to see what the legacy has been, which hit it's defensive low when a div1 league match finished Glenswilly 0-3 Naomh Ádhamhnáin/St Eunan's 0-2 in 2017.

McGuinness brought an emphasis on defence never seen before and it changed Gaelic football for the worse. If you think otherwise you haven't watched the games listed above.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1163 - 30/05/2023 23:17:37    2483052

Link

Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Watch the matches again. Maybe you like 14 men in their own half waiting for the opposition to attack. Running back before the ball is even kicked out.

Donegal lost 06 to 08 against Dublin in 2011, had 11 scores v Antrim and 12 scores v Derry
They scored 12 scores v Tyrone, 13 v Kerry, 13 v Mayo in 2012
In 2013, they scored 12 scores against Down and Tyrone, 7 against Monaghan, 14 v Laois, 11 v Mayo
In 2014, it was 12 v Derry, 15 v Monaghan , 13 v Armagh, 12 V Kerry

The only high scoring match they had against a top team was the semi v Dublin in 2014, where Dublin should have been 10 points up at half time if they took their goal chances.

Then go watch some Donegal club football to see what the legacy has been, which hit it's defensive low when a div1 league match finished Glenswilly 0-3 Naomh Ádhamhnáin/St Eunan's 0-2 in 2017.

McGuinness brought an emphasis on defence never seen before and it changed Gaelic football for the worse. If you think otherwise you haven't watched the games listed above."
Gas man. Total score against Mayo was 17 pts. 16 points in semi final. You act as if goals mean nothing. You also left out the Ulster final in 2012 where they scored 2-18. How covenient. Then you pick a random club game from 6 years ago as if it's relevant ? Such nonsense.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7929 - 31/05/2023 13:51:35    2483158

Link

Replying To TheFlaker:  "Gas man. Total score against Mayo was 17 pts. 16 points in semi final. You act as if goals mean nothing. You also left out the Ulster final in 2012 where they scored 2-18. How covenient. Then you pick a random club game from 6 years ago as if it's relevant ? Such nonsense."
I'm not sure if what is being said is nonsense. Maybe not articulated that well, but I think the general point is that , in general, the number of scores is rising , which is not one bit consistent with the popular narrative that seemingly football is gone to hell. Yes there are some bad games , and yes, even in good games there are periods that are not great to watch, but thats the evolution of the game.
Take soccer if Liverpool play Man Utd there will always be minutes where the back 4 ( or 5) are stroking the ball around inside their own half.. Compare that to a gang of workmates playing 5 a side where inevitably it would be end to end stuff for the duration. But nobody will cross the road to watch the 5 a side, and 80,000 people will watch the other game. Thats sport..
One last point , if you prefer hurling ( as many people do) then praise hurling . But please do not use this forum to knock football. You wouldn't go on a chess forum or an opera forum and start telling them that chess is so so boring and hurling is the best thing since the sliced pan.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 859 - 31/05/2023 16:00:08    2483201

Link

Replying To anotheralias:  "I'm not sure if what is being said is nonsense. Maybe not articulated that well, but I think the general point is that , in general, the number of scores is rising , which is not one bit consistent with the popular narrative that seemingly football is gone to hell. Yes there are some bad games , and yes, even in good games there are periods that are not great to watch, but thats the evolution of the game.
Take soccer if Liverpool play Man Utd there will always be minutes where the back 4 ( or 5) are stroking the ball around inside their own half.. Compare that to a gang of workmates playing 5 a side where inevitably it would be end to end stuff for the duration. But nobody will cross the road to watch the 5 a side, and 80,000 people will watch the other game. Thats sport..
One last point , if you prefer hurling ( as many people do) then praise hurling . But please do not use this forum to knock football. You wouldn't go on a chess forum or an opera forum and start telling them that chess is so so boring and hurling is the best thing since the sliced pan."
I have been defending football on here for a long time. It's better than ever. My point is lazy analysis like the likes of Spillane used to be at having a pop at the likes of Donegal under Mcguinness when the stats don't back it up. People see average club teams playing a defensive style and struggling and then they mention Mcguinness in the next breath. Drives me bananas. Armchair experts who have zero idea of what went on behind the scenes in those counties to reach that level of success playing in that style. Donegal in 2012 were great to watch.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7929 - 31/05/2023 17:03:18    2483226

Link

Replying To anotheralias:  "I'm not sure if what is being said is nonsense. Maybe not articulated that well, but I think the general point is that , in general, the number of scores is rising , which is not one bit consistent with the popular narrative that seemingly football is gone to hell. Yes there are some bad games , and yes, even in good games there are periods that are not great to watch, but thats the evolution of the game.
Take soccer if Liverpool play Man Utd there will always be minutes where the back 4 ( or 5) are stroking the ball around inside their own half.. Compare that to a gang of workmates playing 5 a side where inevitably it would be end to end stuff for the duration. But nobody will cross the road to watch the 5 a side, and 80,000 people will watch the other game. Thats sport..
One last point , if you prefer hurling ( as many people do) then praise hurling . But please do not use this forum to knock football. You wouldn't go on a chess forum or an opera forum and start telling them that chess is so so boring and hurling is the best thing since the sliced pan."
There's been way more anti hurling posts on this thread than anti football ones.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 31/05/2023 21:19:39    2483266

Link

All sports have there challenges.
In the GAA, the tailteann cup (what this thread is about) is actually the most watchable form of Gaelic football on TV (the few times it's on).
It's very competitive in general and quite open with plenty of kicking and catching (which is what I personally enjoy about football).
Very reminiscent of intermediate club football also and even standard where the result is unpredictable.

Sam Maguire football is struggling from over defensive tactics, and has done for 12 years.
If it hadn't been for matches between Mayo, Kerry and Dublin from 2011 - 2021 most matches were either one sided or complete bore fests.
Dublin developed a way of beating the mass defence and what we now get a lot of turgid matches where one team sets up with double sweeper and the other hand passes the ball around trying to work a shot from the D.
When the defensive team get a lead, then the 2nd half fills up with systematic fouling, cards, frees, play acting, medic on the filed and other such *****.

All very reminiscent of NBA basketball in the 40's.

Hurling was going the same way 5 years ago until Limerick developed a gameplay which involves shooting from your own half, this making the sweepers redundant. No miw everyone else is trying the same tactics but aren't as good as it.

NBA basketball changed its rules, introduced shot clocks, free throws after a certain no of team fouls, illegal defence (baned zone defence), moved back the three point line - which resulted in producing a sport that rewarded players who could take on their man one v one. Creating a sport that allowed Majic Johnson, Jordan and others become stars.
That was changed by GSW who developed a gameplay to shoot threes.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1163 - 01/06/2023 02:53:12    2483280

Link

The elephant in the room needs to be addressed.....define the tackle. The gaa mess about with the rules every few years but have never addressed the tackle which varies from referee to referee and from game to game. If there was some extensive work done on defining the tackle properly, it would make a for a better game

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 953 - 02/06/2023 07:39:34    2483489

Link

Replying To totalrecall:  "The elephant in the room needs to be addressed.....define the tackle. The gaa mess about with the rules every few years but have never addressed the tackle which varies from referee to referee and from game to game. If there was some extensive work done on defining the tackle properly, it would make a for a better game"
Tackle is perfectly defined in T.O.
It's Refs using their own definitions or interpretations that's the problem.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1613 - 02/06/2023 10:57:12    2483532

Link

Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Tackle is perfectly defined in T.O.
It's Refs using their own definitions or interpretations that's the problem."
Tackle needs to be defined clearly imo, its too vague, player gets surrounded by three, four men, sometimes it's a free against him, sometimes he gets a free. Tackle is far more clear defined in rugby and there is no ambiguity. The gaa need to review the tackle rule now

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 953 - 02/06/2023 14:26:03    2483592

Link

Replying To totalrecall:  "Tackle needs to be defined clearly imo, its too vague, player gets surrounded by three, four men, sometimes it's a free against him, sometimes he gets a free. Tackle is far more clear defined in rugby and there is no ambiguity. The gaa need to review the tackle rule now"
No one knows if a tackle will be a free in or free out.

The tackle in GAA is non contact. Its very hard to do.
Coaches coach players to make contact with the player in possession, which is a free.

There is a simple way.
Shoulder charge is in.
Pull back of arms, shoulder, jersey etc is out.
Foot Block is out.
Tackle must be contact with the football first or else it's a free
Deliberate contact with man before ball (except shoulder to shoulder) is a free.

Can't have a rugby tackle permitted in GAA

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1163 - 03/06/2023 12:40:28    2483699

Link